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2016 US Presidential Election Birth Data Issues

2016 US Presidential Election Birth Data Issues

In episode 90 astrologer Patrick Watson joins the podcast to talk about birth data issues in the 2016 US presidential election, and in particular ongoing questions surrounding the birth time of Hillary Clinton.

Below you will find the show notes, followed by links to download or stream the recording of our discussion.

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Show Notes

Here are some notes from this episode:

Different Birth Times for Hillary Clinton:

  • 8:00 AM – Scorpio rising
  • 8:00 PM – Gemini rising
  • 8:01 PM – Cancer rising
  • 12:00 AM – Leo rising
  • 2:18 AM – Virgo rising

Relevant Links:


A full transcript of this episode is available: Episode 90 transcript

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  • Please add to the other options. 10:53:13 PM, ASC 5LE46’52”. Published 2007. A Rectification Manual, pp. 764-765. Generally speaking, Clinton’s horoscope is another good example of how an afflicted Mercury in the natal horoscpe manifests as confusion with the birth time. Mercury is in the sign of Mars, one indication of deceit, retrograde, and conjunct the South Node. With this type of afflicted Mercury, I seriously doubt that a reliable birth record will ever be released.

    • You are literally the only astrologer I know who rectified the correct rising sign for Obama prior to the release of his birth certificate, so it is always good to get your input.

  • Great podcast. I’ve also been using the 8:02 AM time because it seems to “work” much more effectively than the other proposed times. Regarding collecting birth data, my experience has been that people often don’t remember accurately. For example, years ago I submitted a birth time for Joe Lieberman to Lois Rodden (before he became a Senator). At the time one of my colleagues at work was his wife, so I asked her for his birth time. She asked Joe and told me that Joe said his mother told him about 7 AM. I later had a chance to speak with Joe himself, and he confirmed the time (which was his recollection of what his mother had told him). AstroDataBank also reports a different time: “Family friend Jana Koubek cites a probable birth time of 2:00 AM to 3:00 AM per conversation with Marcia Lieberman, Joe’s mother.” I have no doubt that Joe was quoting the 7 AM time he thought his mother told him, yet his elderly mother gave an earlier A.M. time to a family friend.
    In speaking publicly about this date at the time, I was very much aware that Ron and Nancy Reagan had been roundly criticized for their interest in astrology and that politicians are quite cautious about revealing any interest in the art because it could negatively influence potential voters.
    Regarding Hillary Clinton’s birth time, it is highly suspicious that someone just discovered definitive evidence after people have been searching for it for so many years. It would be great if Marc Penfield had a photocopy of the birth certificate, but I doubt that he does. Regarding the comments by the chiropracter, it may be that Hillary simply misremembered what an astrologer told her about her chart (clients do this all the time). For example, an astrologer may have told Hillary that she was a Scorpio, with her Sun and Ascendant in Scorpio, her Moon in Pisces, and her Ascendant ruler in Leo.; and not being an astrologer herself, she could have misremembered it and produced what she allegedly said to the chiropracter.
    In any case, until we have a copy of the hospital record or birth certificate, I plan to stick with the 8:02 AM time.

  • Edith Hathaway, a Vedic astrologer, uses 7:56am. I believe this is correct and very close. Interestingly, this time shows the asteroids Hubris and Sappho conjunct the Scorpio ascendant.

  • This is one of the greatest deliveries of the show you have gave us Chris. Exciting from the beginning till the end. I hope this kind of situations with ISAR are never repeated in the future. Colleagues’ dignity should be respected. Greetings from Chile.

  • I really enjoyed the podcast guys. good luck with the 8 .am chart Chris. It takes a brave man to stand behind his gut instinct.

  • Thank you, Patrick! About time someone pronounced “ISAR” correctly. 😉 An enjoyable and Interesting topic that also exposes the underside of the astrological rock.

  • Chris, Im sure you have heard that for your solar return at age 33, with the original birth place location you will have the same ascendant, within a few degrees, as you had at birth. I have found this system quite reliable , especially in ascertaining if it was an A.M. birth or P.M. I checked Hillary´s and she has a scorpio ascendant for her 33rd solar return in 1980.

    Are you familiar with this?
    Regards, Bernardette