In episode 90 astrologer Patrick Watson joins the podcast to talk about birth data issues in the 2016 US presidential election, and in particular ongoing questions surrounding the birth time of Hillary Clinton.
Below you will find the show notes, followed by links to download or stream the recording of our discussion.
Monthly Giveaway Winners Announced
At the top of the show we announce the winners of the monthly giveaway.
- The winner of the pass to my course on Hellenistic astrology was listener Dorje Kirsten.
- The winner of the pass to my course on electional astrology was Cindy Letourneau.
All you have to do to enter the drawing each month is become a supporter of the podcast through our page on Patreon on the $5 or $10 tier. See the previous giveaway page for July for more details. The next drawing will take place on episode 94.
Show Notes
Here are some notes from this episode:
Different Birth Times for Hillary Clinton:
- 8:00 AM – Scorpio rising
- 8:00 PM – Gemini rising
- 8:01 PM – Cancer rising
- 12:00 AM – Leo rising
- 2:18 AM – Virgo rising
Relevant Links:
- AstroDatabank entry for Hillary Clinton
- My original 2007 article on Hillary’s birth time after returning from the NCGR conference
- Followup article on birth data issues in the 2008 election
- 2012 ABC News interview we did predicting Hillary would run in 2016
- Fox News interview we did predicting Obama would win and Hillary would run
- Patrick’s 2016 presidential prediction
- Patrick’s article on Hillary’s Clinton’s real birth time
- Patrick’s announcement of Tim Kaine’s birth time
- Recent ISAR announcement about Hillary’s birth time
- September 29, 2016 Wall Street Journal article: Who’s Demanding to See Hillary Clinton’s Birth Certificate? Baffled Astrologers
Transcript
A full transcript of this episode is available: Episode 90 transcript
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Please add to the other options. 10:53:13 PM, ASC 5LE46’52”. Published 2007. A Rectification Manual, pp. 764-765. Generally speaking, Clinton’s horoscope is another good example of how an afflicted Mercury in the natal horoscpe manifests as confusion with the birth time. Mercury is in the sign of Mars, one indication of deceit, retrograde, and conjunct the South Node. With this type of afflicted Mercury, I seriously doubt that a reliable birth record will ever be released.
You are literally the only astrologer I know who rectified the correct rising sign for Obama prior to the release of his birth certificate, so it is always good to get your input.
Great podcast. I’ve also been using the 8:02 AM time because it seems to “work” much more effectively than the other proposed times. Regarding collecting birth data, my experience has been that people often don’t remember accurately. For example, years ago I submitted a birth time for Joe Lieberman to Lois Rodden (before he became a Senator). At the time one of my colleagues at work was his wife, so I asked her for his birth time. She asked Joe and told me that Joe said his mother told him about 7 AM. I later had a chance to speak with Joe himself, and he confirmed the time (which was his recollection of what his mother had told him). AstroDataBank also reports a different time: “Family friend Jana Koubek cites a probable birth time of 2:00 AM to 3:00 AM per conversation with Marcia Lieberman, Joe’s mother.” I have no doubt that Joe was quoting the 7 AM time he thought his mother told him, yet his elderly mother gave an earlier A.M. time to a family friend.
In speaking publicly about this date at the time, I was very much aware that Ron and Nancy Reagan had been roundly criticized for their interest in astrology and that politicians are quite cautious about revealing any interest in the art because it could negatively influence potential voters.
Regarding Hillary Clinton’s birth time, it is highly suspicious that someone just discovered definitive evidence after people have been searching for it for so many years. It would be great if Marc Penfield had a photocopy of the birth certificate, but I doubt that he does. Regarding the comments by the chiropracter, it may be that Hillary simply misremembered what an astrologer told her about her chart (clients do this all the time). For example, an astrologer may have told Hillary that she was a Scorpio, with her Sun and Ascendant in Scorpio, her Moon in Pisces, and her Ascendant ruler in Leo.; and not being an astrologer herself, she could have misremembered it and produced what she allegedly said to the chiropracter.
In any case, until we have a copy of the hospital record or birth certificate, I plan to stick with the 8:02 AM time.
Edith Hathaway, a Vedic astrologer, uses 7:56am. I believe this is correct and very close. Interestingly, this time shows the asteroids Hubris and Sappho conjunct the Scorpio ascendant.
This is one of the greatest deliveries of the show you have gave us Chris. Exciting from the beginning till the end. I hope this kind of situations with ISAR are never repeated in the future. Colleagues’ dignity should be respected. Greetings from Chile.
I agree with Dr. H, but I think Mercury gives itself up most strongly in regard to throwing off the birth time by being placed on the ascendant. Ironic.
I really enjoyed the podcast guys. good luck with the 8 .am chart Chris. It takes a brave man to stand behind his gut instinct.
Well done gentlemen. What a compelling episode.
fantastic episode. i learned so much. and i appreciate the commentary as well. many thanks.
It’s late Saturday evening. What’s the update on the Clinton birth time? What has been revealed? Or hasn’t it happened yet?
ISAR announced on Facebook that they will be releasing a video interview with Marc Penfield sometime tomorrow (Sunday, October 2). Presumably the link will be posted on their Facebook page.
Well… aint seen nothing yet….
Thank you, Patrick! About time someone pronounced “ISAR” correctly. 😉 An enjoyable and Interesting topic that also exposes the underside of the astrological rock.
The announcement was released tonight as a short video interview with Penfield:
Patrick wrote an article that sums up all of the issues with Penfield’s eventual announcement pretty well here:
http://www.patrickwatsonastrologer.com/2016/10/04/why-marc-penfields-218-am-birth-time-claim-for-hillary-is-a-japanese-turd-burger/
Okay…Well…. yeah…. Not convinced.
[…] to this episode of the Astrology Podcast featuring myself and Chris […]
Relevant followup discussions:
http://forum.astro.com/cgi/forum.cgi?num=1430611006%2F2680&lang=e
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9257&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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Chris, Im sure you have heard that for your solar return at age 33, with the original birth place location you will have the same ascendant, within a few degrees, as you had at birth. I have found this system quite reliable , especially in ascertaining if it was an A.M. birth or P.M. I checked Hillary´s and she has a scorpio ascendant for her 33rd solar return in 1980.
Are you familiar with this?
Regards, Bernardette
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