In the 45th episode of the podcast four astrologers join the show to talk about the upcoming ingress of Saturn in Sagittarius.
In the first half of the show I talk with Kelly Surtees and Austin Coppock about what Saturn in Sagittarius means from a broad symbolic perspective, as well as what it means for the world at large within the context of mundane astrology.
In the second half of the show I talk with Patrick Watson and Leisa Schaim about what Saturn in Sagittarius means within the context of natal astrology by looking at a collection of people who were born with it in that sign of the zodiac, and talking about what happened to them during their Saturn return.
Below you will find more information about each person who appeared on the show, followed by an outline of some of the different topics we covered, and then links to download or stream the recording of the episode:
Further Info on Saturn in Sagittarius
- Kelly Surtees recently published an e-book on Saturn in Sagittarius, which will be on sale at a discounted price on her website on September 18.
- Austin Coppock wrote an essay about Saturn in Sagittarius in his astrological almanac for 2015, and he is also beginning two different online classes starting on September 26, the first being a four week course on dignity and rulership, and the second a six week class on the decans or faces.
- Leisa Schaim authors a blog called Saturn Return Stories, has lectured on the topic, and also offers consultations that are geared towards people who are going through their Saturn return.
- Patrick Watson wrote an extensive and excellent essay on his blog titled Saturn in Sagittarius: The Skeptic, the Architect and the Luddite, and has the distinction of being the only panelist on this episode that actually has Saturn in Sag in his birth chart.
- Chris Brennan is an occasional contributor to Saturn Return Stories, authoring articles such as Five Tips for Interpreting the Saturn Return, and a tutorial on How to Calculate Your Saturn Return.
Episode Outline
Part 1: Kelly, Austin, and Chris: Saturn in Sag, the Big Picture
- Saturn moves into Sagittarius on September 17, 2015.
- Stays in Sagittarius until December 19, 2017.
- Initial preview was from late December 2014 to mid-June 2015.
- Focal point around March 2015 with station at 4 Sag.
- Saturn in Sag themes
- Movement, travel, getting from here to there.
- Literal themes of travel and transportation. The Chunnel. Space travel.
- The idea of that which is foreign or alien.
- Visions, big picture ideals, making these manifest in a way that is good enough.
- Saturn and the ability to assess and be discerning.
- The quest for direction and meaning.
- Integrity, justice, law.
- Big Aspects involving Saturn in Sag:
- Saturn square Neptune: Dec 2015/June + August 2016
- Mars retrograde in Sag/Scorpio first half of 2016. In Sag early March.
- Saturn trine Uranus: Dec 2016 + May 2017
- Plus two aspects from Saturn in Sag to Jupiter
- Jupiter square Saturn March + May 2016
- Jupiter sextile Saturn Dec 2016/Jan 2017 + August – September 2017
- Seems to be more difficult stuff during the first half of Saturn in Sag, but easier later on
Part 2: Patrick, Leisa, and Chris: Saturn in Sag in Natal Charts and Saturn Returns
- In this segment we are going to talk more about what Saturn in Sag looks like in the natal chart, as well as what the Saturn return will look like for those who have it there.
- Saturn in Sag in the 20th century:
- December 2 1926 – November 29 1929
- January 12 1956 – January 5 1959
- November 17 1985 – November 12 1988
- What are some of the themes that come up in the lives of people with Saturn in Sag?
- What are some themes that come up during Saturn returns in Sag?
- It is hard to differentiate between the two sometimes, so let’s talk about both.
- Patrick examples, batch 1:
- Tony Abbott
- Madonna
- Stephen Fry
- Leisa examples, batch 1:
- David Good
- Caroline Kennedy
- Amanda Knox
- Patrick examples batch 2:
- Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- NASA/Challenger/Sputnik/Mir. Future: expansion of commercial space travel.
- James Randi
- Leisa examples batch 2:
- Amy Goodman
- Elizabeth Smart
- Judith Butler
- Some Saturn returns in Sag we’re looking forward to:
- Shia LaBeouf
- Pope Benedict XVI (Ratzinger)
- Ronan Farrow
- Lady Gaga
- Keywords: To boldly go where no man has gone before.
Transcript
A full transcript of this episode is available: Episode 45 transcript
Listen to This Episode
You can either play this episode of the podcast directly from the website or download it as an MP3 to your computer by using the buttons below:
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First, I would like to apologize for my simplistic English, as it is not my native language and I have never learned it in a traditional way with writing assignments. But I hope ,Chris , you will get the idea Behind my message.
My main interest goes to traditional astrology (Greek, medieval) as a precise tool for – let say – describing the reality, be it native, mundane, political, etc. I am not so impressed with actual modern approach pointing first to aspects between planeta and making it the basis of a interpretation or prediction, as I find in too general, and even sometimes not relevant at all to ongoing events/ reality. Am I wrong ? Having listening to Podcast episodes for August, September and Saturn in Saggitarius, somehow I was waiting for you and your guests , to mention which alignments of planets are/would be responsible for human drama of refugees coming from Africa (in general) to Europe (and USA of course), and forcing receiving countries to non voluntary adjustments in social, economical and others fields of living. In one end of the story there is terrible human drama, on the other hand there is a forced change in established so far order. I understand that you are mainly concentrated in American reality when you give examples of how in the past , specific alignments were affecting USA. However, I think that what is going now with massive migration of desperate people is so significant that ” it should be shown” in the astrological cosmos – or rather the other way: As above so below.
At the end I would like to make myself clear: this is not the critique, just an observation. I am a big, hudge admirer of you, Chris, as a serious, trustworthy, knowledgeable astrologer. I have listened to all Astrology Podcasts, and for me, they are great source for expanding my astrological horizons. If I may, just a little suggestion for you to take in consideration or not, but I will make it: episodes for monthly forecasts, if they could explain a little more the possible manifestation of aspects between planets ( like it was done in a fantastic , but too/very short way in episode Saturn in Sagittarius, by your guests).
And finally, to me , Austin Coppock with his insight, his talent to put in words “this something” what hides behind technical terms, he is a gem. How about making episodes with him about …. Maybe I am crossing the line now, as I am just a listener, but: maybe about what is behind aspects of planets for ordinary people ? Maybe a serie when he could talk about every Decan/ Face ? Or…
Klara from Warsaw (in Poland)
This is something that I had in the show notes to talk about and that I mentioned briefly towards the end of the segment with Austin and Kelly, although you are right that it probably deserved more attention. I think that a lot of the migration or refugee crisis has to do with the Uranus-Pluto square that has been going on over the past several years, which many astrologers have associated with the Arab Spring and the subsequent destabilization of many countries in the Middle East and North Africa. I think that Saturn in Sagittarius will play a major role in the next two in a half years in reflecting the results of that with so many people migrating to Europe, and we did talk about this a little bit in the show in terms of the different cultural, religious, and social conflicts and adjustments that would coincide with that. It is definitely something that we could have talked about more though.
One of the issues in terms of covering global events is just that I tend to try to avoid talking about things that I’m not very familiar with or don’t know much about. I’m definitely interested in news that is going on in different parts of the world and don’t want to make the show restricted to just news or events in the US, although sometimes if there is a situation or a story that I’m not as familiar with as I could be I will tend to err on the side of caution and not end up talking about it as much so that I don’t say something that is wrong or inappropriate.
At some point I would like to do an episode on the Uranus-Pluto square, and I think that that would provide us with a good opportunity to talk more about the immigration crisis and some of the broader astrological trends that it is tied into, which go beyond just Saturn in Sagittarius.
Jupiter opp Neptune has corresponded with a number of mass migration / refugee events, apparently. And sure makes sense in terms of gross symbolism (masses, long distances, loss, oceans)
Thank you, Chris, for taking time to write such a detailed answer. I understand perfectly you are not doing political or historical astro podcasts. I see now, I was not quite right having asked for more political/social comments in the show (my ASC and natal Moon in Aquarius are causing me problems sometimes). I will be waiting patiently for Uranus – Pluto episode.
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Wow – awesome podcast. Most especially the first half for me. Full disclosure – 2 deg Saturn in Sag here fused to a one deg Sag Moon. I have taken a peak back to the first return and yes, the 4th H themes are repeating and we have just started. Can be nail biting in the the 4th – and with a 94 yr old 5 deg Sag mom – well, you can see why I worry. Most interesting to hear about the dominance of Saturn in the square – thank you so much for pointing this out. I find the interpretations of squares itself to be challenging. I was thinking all along how Neptune was so strong because in its domicile. I like that Saturn has a chance at firming up some plans for that move forward, no matter how awkward, without Neptune eroding them. Now it has been said that Saturn eliminates in the severing/paring down kind of way (as opposed to the Plutonian purging) in order to re-incorporate (Erin Sullivan, Saturn in Transit) and not to transcend (again, Plutonian). So yes – what use does he have for Neptune and its other worldly spirituality other than to organize it? How is this done? I am thinking here programs for compassionate relief, and in Sag, the international problems cited by first commenter would have to be examined. So Saturn has the upper hand – let’s see it do something. Interesting that Austin sees this contact between the two as ephemeral. I hope is it pounced on. Thanks to Austin for the lesson on the collective North Node as well, lessening Neptune even more. I still see it as having a leg up in its own sign but having to acomodate the Virgo. What an interesting mix of the practical with the dreamer and idealist! Also wanted to mention that 29 years ago Saturn only hit 2 deg Sag once – it didn’t even get touched in the retrograde. This time around I am getting hit three times – last one next month. Then on to the natal NN at 10 deg and Sun ruler Mars with natal Mars in Cap jumping into the game. One day at a time eh? The only way to play it.
I’ve actually done a little bit of looking into Gaga’s chart over the summer, and I’m a huge fan of hers. She got engaged this year, and I don’t think there’s a public date, but I think it’s safe to say she’ll get married when Saturn is in her natal Saturn sign, in her 7th house. Kind of classic Saturn = commitment thing.. She’s also recently done an album with Tony Bennett, and did an iconic performance of a Julie Andrews/Sound of Music tribute at the Oscars and blew everyone totally away with the maturity, control, and command of her voice. She still seems to encompass all things weird, especially with her new role in American Horror Story coming up, but she is most definitely maturing. Both in her music and in life. She founded the Born This Way Foundation with her mother in 2011, and has done work with that ever since, including beginning something called the Emotion Revolution. She teamed up with (wait for it) Yale University to survey students and young people basically all about how they feel they’re treated, how they relate to one another, and all things emotion, and there will be a presentation of survey results next month, just in time for Saturn to move into her natal Saturn sign. I’m really excited to see what else happens with her this year as an artist and person.
I have always said, Aries women Rock ! – from Aretha on down and most likely before. Her duet with Tony Bennett shows great control. I love how it is so obvious how much they enjoyed that project. He can handle her !
Hi ! Thanks for the podcast. I was born 6/15/1987 in Portsmouth, VA @ 00:35 – this is my 1st Saturn return and it is happening through my 9th and 10th house (10th house cusp in Sag) with my natal Saturn position in the 10th house at 17 degrees. My 10th house has Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune (Neptune falls under Capricorn though) ALL 3 retrograde!! What does THAT mean?!! Lol. The last three years have been the most transformational years of my life as I also was traveling around the States a bunch. My husband and I just moved from Florida to the US Virgin Islands the end of this July (looking for roots and a place to be grounded/no more tumble weeding around). We are on St. John and it has a very Capricorn-y energy and vibe to it so the way I see it, this is the ‘stage’ of where my 10th house is going to play out on. Since moving here I got pregnant for the first time and miscarried at 6 weeks. Which that was huge victory despite the miscarry bc doctors told me that I could not conceive naturally and only through in-virto fertilization so in 2012 I decided to embark on a healing journey to heal from the inside out to be able to conceive naturally and I did ! Wahoo ! Well, that healing journey was a big part of my transformation bc it snowballed into a conscious spiritual journey. I’ve been thirsty for self discovery my whole life (which is what turned me on to Astrology when I was young) once I finally had a better understanding of my self then the question turned to, ‘okay, well now what do I want to “do” in life’ in reference to a career (the last 3 years I have not been working ‘out there’, I’ve been doing inner work). I have my teaching certificate but teaching in the public education system is too much of a box for me to fit in. So I recently started an alternative medicine practice as a Metaphysical Practitioner to help others heal BUT it seem like it’s kinda at a stand still… So I don’t know where this Saturn Return in my 10th house is going to take me but I do know I’m sure excited for it. I am welcoming some form, boundaries, and structure into my life. Oh and this past full moon in Aquarius (My Moon sign and in 12th house) and then the new moon/solar eclipse in Virgo illuminated all this new information to research: Pagan, Wicca, and Witchcraft ! So yes, I see the themes of traveling, studying, religion all prevalent in my life right now. I also feel like if I am lucky enough to get pregnant again and carry full term I am going to want to focus my practice on helping other women with fertility issues with alternative and holistic modalities. So – who knows! =)
Very nice podcast guys !
I miss Saturn in Scorpio. No, I’m just kidding. ^^
Great episode. Very thorough. Part II wherein Patrick discusses the skeptics vs religion aspect of this transit reminded me that the documentary about Scientology ‘Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief’ was premiered and released in January and March of 2015 when Saturn first went into Sag.
Hello to all of you . I want to add something on the first comment by Klara from Poland . The refugee crisis has a lot to do with Neptune in Pisces . People which are displaced and need help from “the community” fall under the signature of Neptune ! With Neptune in Pisces it becomes a pretty big global issue! The whole refugee issue currently also has something to do with Geopolitics and strategic warfare in some sense. Do not get me wrong on this ! But anyway with Jupiter opposing Neptune currently and especially with Saturn now in Sagittatrius for the next 2 years or so the motto could literally be “Nothing more goes” meaning one has to find a practical solution to the refugee crisis.(Jupiter in Virgo) Limiting the migration(Saturn in Sagittarius).There cannot be endless help for everyone ! Jupiter is dominating the configuration because he is upon the tenth from Saturn and rules Sagittarius and Pisces. Neptune’s signature literally portrays the weakened and helpless people in general, people who have to hide or are on the run (Neptune is the other side of Mars if one uses “antiscia technique” or the planets instead . Pisces(Neptune) versus Aries(Mars) or they “look at each other” via 0 degree of Aries . In Austria where i live we are hit really hard by the refugee crisis at the moment. Anyway greetings from Vienna and all my best to all of you!
Cheers and stay healthy , Philipp
I am surprised you didn’t bring up terrorism and Saturn in Sadge (sadge rules religious zealotry).
The mid-80s were a hot bed of terrorist activity, maybe the most intense period pre-9/11, The 80s Saturn in Sadge Period was basically bookended by the taking of the Achille Lauro ( a few weeks before) and ended with Lockerbie. (a few weeks after). In between were the El Al Rome and Vienna Airport massacres , several air hijackings, bombings in Beirut and throughout Europe, Berlin Disco bombing, Paris bombings that killed 5 and injured 57 over a 10 month span, Rome US embassy attack, American civilians kidnapped long-term in Beirut , the Qaddaffi crisis, to name a few. It is crazy how many bombs were going off around Europe, and how non-plussed people were, compared to today.
It also saw the rise of Hezbollah and Hamas, the war in Afghanistan (ended in 88), and the first Palestinian Intifada. So, it’s also the Saturn return of all this mess.
There were many hijackings and airport shootings (aviation issues) so it will be interesting to see if this somehow manifests again.
What do you all feel this means this time around. I feel with Isis it is like morphing terrorism into a business – or using the tools of business and branding to wage terror, but it will be interesting how things go.
also the explosion of the migration crisis corresponds with Jupiter’s entry into humanitarian Virgo.
Yes, these are great points. We were supposed to cover some of this under the section where we talked about how bin Laden’s Saturn was in Sagittarius and he was experiencing his Saturn return in Afghanistan in the mid-1980s, but we ended up skipping a lot of that due to time issues. It is definitely relevant though, for the reasons you pointed out. The idea of Saturn having to do with fear seems to be part of it though, since sometimes the point of terrorism isn’t so much the direct damage it does itself, but it is the broader chilling or terrorizing effect that it has in stopping people from doing things due to fear. It will be interesting to see if there isn’t an evolution of that somehow with Saturn returning to that sign.
I think the expanded Virgo agenda with Jupiter transiting there for a year, and not always in opposition to Neptune, will be an interesting integration/reconciliation with Saturn in Sag. As far as squares go it must be less difficult I would think with Saturn being in Jupiter’s sign. Saturn is compatible with Virgo as well. There was discussion in the podcast about the Virgo theme of detail and practicalities and busyness, but not much about the purifying and service themes. Certainly service and health care (humanitarian service) will play out in the migration crisis as well? Saturn is very much about religion – so it will be something to watch when warrior Mars gets in the mix. Religious zealotry vs atheism or anti religion, 2 ends of the continuum…the fundamentalist zealotry of Isis exposed for what it is – completely lacking in integrity and having to be contained.
Mass migration is Neptune home in Pisces.
It happens every time.
Saturn in Sag is questioning religious ideology.
[…] is a followup to episode 45 on Saturn in Sagittarius, which we recorded back in 2015 when Saturn was first moving into that sign, and talked about some […]