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Mark Jones on the Therapeutic Potential of Astrology

Mark Jones - The Soul Speaks: The therapeutic Potential of AstrologyIn this episode I talk with astrologer Mark Jones about his new book titled The Soul Speaks: The Therapeutic Potential of Astrology.

In the book Mark uses his background as a psychotherapist to help teach astrologers some useful skills for doing counseling.

He makes the point that no matter what type of astrology you practice, once you start interacting with individuals on a one-on-one basis as part of your practice you are engaging in counseling, and so it is both useful and important to be able to identify and understand some of the dynamics that can arise from that interaction.

During the course of the show we talk about Mark’s background and interest in the Psychosynthesis approach to psychology that was developed by Roberto Assagioli, the relevance of psychology for astrologers, and some different types of dynamics that can arise between astrologers and their clients.

You can order a copy of Mark’s book either through his website at PlutoSchool.com, or through online retailers such as Amazon.com.

Outline of the Episode

Below you will find an outline of some of the different topics that we touched on during the course of the show, followed by links to download or stream the recording.

  • Mark’s background, training, and motivation for writing the book.
  • Psychological astrology as a method versus counseling skills being applicable to any type or tradition of astrology.
    • The reader doesn’t need to adopt a certain type of astrology in order to find the book useful, as that’s not what it is about. It is about understanding different types of counseling dynamics.
  • Preconceptions that clients will approach consultations with, and how that perception affects both client and astrologer.
  • Assagioli’s development of Psychosynthesis as a spiritual psychology
  • Assagioli and Jung’s interest in astrology, and their influence on Dane Rudhyar.
  • Interactions between Assagioli, Rudhyar, Jung, and Freud.
  • Different defense systems that people have when they see counselors.
    • Reaction formation, projection, transference, countertransference, etc.
  • What is the therapeutic potential of astrology?
  • Later chapters of the book on Saturn and the cycles of the outer planets.
  • The primary ethical directive of astrologers who see clients.


A full transcript of this episode is available: Episode 42 transcript

Listen to This Episode

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  • …that was a very enjoyable presentation . I appreciated hearing that the incorporation of Assagioli’s work is now moving from the side water tributaries to the `main stream’ currents. This is certainly where `depth’ psychology and `transpersonal’ astrology are together going.

  • Thank your both, & especially Mark, for such a tantalizingly lucid & eloquent discussion of ‘a bed-side manner’ that is ‘non-denominational’. Consequently, the notions & principles outlined will have practical relevance to any meaningful interpersonal interaction & especially between an astrologer & a client. Also, this is a most welcome development for those who are not yet comfortable with doing client work. Many thanks.

  • I love this way of viewing and practising astrology. Thank you for interviewing Mark Jones, Chris Brennan, and thank you, Mark – I’ll read the book. Psychosynthesis is at the core of Huber astrology, which was my original training, and it’s good to hear the huge importance of the client-astrologer relationship brought to the fore.

  • Great interview. I look forward to pursuing the work of Mr Jones. I can shelf his books next to my Marc Edmund Jones tomes.
    I was intrigued by the conversation pertaining to the outer planets as higher octaves of the inner ones [i.e. Uranus as higher octave as Mercury, Neptune as octave of venus and Pluto as higher octave as Mars]. When I was learning astrology, mid 80s, there was only one schemata of the outer planets/inner planets octave relationship taught [if we disregard the Uranian System of Astrology planetary correspondences]!\\ and it remains the default inner outer planet /inner planet relationship schemata to me. It’s amazing how many more ‘choices’ there are days.
    I have since heard Mercury linked with both Pluto and Neptune! Maybe you should do a show on this topic.
    I was surprised that Mr Jones did not mention the Huber system in passing when discussing ‘psychosynthesis’ as Assagioli”s work was germane to the Hubers’ work. Thank you for making this interview solely about MJ’s work, background and mission statement. Too often i’ve heard other interviewers make the dialogue about themselves !

    • Hi Mark & Chris
      Before accepting that Mercury, Venus & Mars represent HIGHER OCTAVES (What does that means?) of Uranus, Neptune & Pluto, respectively, it may be useful to consider what Lee Lehman said on p.107 of her her Essential Dignities (1989).

  • A tour de force. Mark Jones is always an experience of the highest order. Delivered what was, for my money, the best lecture at ’15 NORWAC, and I’ve been incredibly expressed with his work with every exposure since.

  • I would like to know what Dane Rudyar books are worth reading. Your guest Mark Jones mentions that not all of DR books are brilliant but some truly are. I was hoping he’d mention which ones are brilliant. I have listened to a few of Rudyar’s podcasts and even have two of his books on my shelf, but I haven’t been able to finish reading them because they are so layered/dense. keep telling myself to go back and finish then. I did sense DR’s brilliance and his other worldliness or far out type of mind. I found Mark Jones very interesting and would like to read some of his books as well…