The Astrology Podcast
Transcript of Episode 55, titled:
Astrology Forecast and Elections for December 2015
With Chris Brennan and guests Austin Coppock and Kelly Surtees
Episode originally released on November 29, 2015
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Note: This is a transcript of a spoken word podcast. If possible, we encourage you to listen to the audio or video version, since they include inflections that may not translate well when written out. Our transcripts are created by human transcribers, and the text may contain errors and differences from the spoken audio. If you find any errors then please send them to us by email: theastrologypodcast@gmail.com
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Transcribed by Andrea Johnson
Transcription released September 29th, 2024
Copyright © 2024 TheAstrologyPodcast.com
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CHRIS BRENNAN: Hi, my name is Chris Brennan, and this is The Astrology Podcast. Today is—what is it? It’s Friday, November 20, 2015, at approximately 3:00 PM, and this is actually gonna be the 52nd or 53rd episode show. I’m not sure yet cuz I’m supposed to release another one today. So in this episode, I’m gonna be talking with Kelly Surtees and Austin Coppock about the astrological forecast for December 2015, along with some auspicious dates that month for beginning different types of ventures and undertakings using the principles of electional astrology. For more information about subscribing to the podcast, please visit theastrologypodcast.com/subscribe. The podcast is made possible by listeners of the show who pledge their support through Patreon. We’re doing this show in front of a live audience today of some of our top supporters who support the show at the $5 and $10 tiers. And so, they’ll be participating and doing a live Q&A and just asking questions and making comments during the course of the show. So I think that’s it for introductions. So, first, I should welcome my two co-hosts, Austin Coppock and Kelly Surtees. Welcome to the show.
KELLY SURTEES: Hi.
AUSTIN COPPOCK: Hey, hey.
CB: All right. So before we get started with the forecast and the astrological alignments for the month, why don’t we see if there’s any announcements to make. I know that I’ve got a couple of announcements. Why don’t you go first, Kelly? What are you working on at the moment?
KS: Oh, okay, cool. I am getting ready for my trip down under. I’m heading down to Australia for the holidays, Christmas, New Year’s. But it also means I’ll be doing some teaching in Sydney in January, and I’ve got a two-day movement in the chart intensive that I’m teaching in Sydney, January 15-16, 2016. And there is an early-bird rate for people who are interested, for our listeners that are in Sydney or can get to Sydney. There’s an early-bird rate of just $195 that’s available if you sign up before the end of November. So that’s gonna be a fun day. We’re gonna kind of bring in a bunch of interesting things to do with how to use movement in the chart, or in the natal chart, predictively.
CB: Excellent. So people can find out more about that at your website, which is kellysastrology.com.
KS: Exactly, yes, come on over. Or shoot me an email or grab me on Facebook, whatever’s easy for people.
CB: Great. All right, and Austin, what do you have going on?
AC: Well, I’ve got a couple of things coming up. The one that is arriving soonest is that I’m actually going to be releasing some recordings of the classes I’ve been teaching all of this year for sale outside of a structured format. And those are all being edited frantically right now, and they should all be online and available for purchase by Thanksgiving weekend.
CB: Excellent. So just a week from now or a few days from now.
AC: Yeah, a week.
CB: Great. All right, and people can check out your website for more about that, which is austincoppock.com.
AC: That’s right.
CB: All right. And as for myself, first, I actually have to apologize. Cuz it’s funny—this is actually the next episode after our previous episode, which was the forecast for November. So I’m running terribly behind with releasing podcast episodes this month, although part of the reason for that is I was doing a ton of lecturing this month. In order to balance out the episodes for this month, I’m actually gonna release the lectures that I’ve given this month as podcasts for free. One of them is on why whole sign houses is the best house system, which I actually might release before I release this episode. In which case, this will be Episode 53 and ‘whole sign houses’ will be Episode 52. I also just finished recording a series of new nine-hour lectures on ancient Hellenistic time-lord techniques, specifically a one on annual profections. So I’m really excited about that—I’ve been working on it for a year—and you can find out more information about it at hellenisticastrology.com. All right, so let’s get into our topic for the month.
So, first, instead of jumping right into the actual alignments for this month, I wanted to do a little bit of recap, cuz there’s actually been a lot of relevant astrology stories in the news lately. Especially I’ve noticed a bunch of Saturn in Sagittarius-type stuff, both in terms of mundane astrology—just in terms of the news—but also just in terms of people with Saturn in Sagittarius are now full-on hitting their Saturn returns. Especially some of the people that have Saturn early in that sign, it seems to be showing up very prominently, very early on. So the first one and the biggest one of course that we’ve talked about as sort of a running theme for the past few months has been Saturn in Sagittarius and its relation to that which is foreign and its relation to some of the things that are going on in terms of some of the immigration that’s taking place in Europe and around the world right now. And a lot of that seems like it’s been coming to a head over the past few weeks, just in terms of the international attention towards it. Does it feel like it’s been that way to you guys, or is that just me?
AC: No, I think that’s a pretty inarguable statement. The recent events in Paris have brought attention to the immigration crisis even here in the United States. There was no national discourse—or there’s very little national discourse about accepting Syrian refugees three weeks ago in the US. And now it’s all over Facebook and the internet, and it’s certainly brought it to a fever pitch in Europe. And, as you know, or as I hope you guys remember, last month we talked about how the Saturn-Neptune square—with Saturn being laws and borders, and Neptune being that which is amorphous and that which often requires compassion—did a really good job of symbolically outlining the refugee crisis. And we said that we thought that the exact square—especially this one coming up here at the end of November—would be both a peak and a turning point as far as mapping the trajectory of that crisis and how its resolution goes. And so, here we are.
CB: Yeah. And if you listen to the “Saturn in Sagittarius” episode, that is one of the specific topics that we talked about, especially towards the end of that episode, about Saturn in Sagittarius potentially coinciding with it. And also at one point, even noting that some of the things that happened in the preview phase earlier this year—with Saturn initially going into Sagittarius, the ‘Charlie Hebdo’ attacks or crisis, as potentially being an indication of other themes that might come up—ended up being sort of prescient as well. What do you think, Kelly? What’s your observation been lately?
KS: Yeah, the theme I guess that keeps coming up is part of this, the idea of blurred boundaries or permeable borders, which is very much the Saturn in Sag combination with Neptune in Pisces. And one topical theme coming out of Australia, there is definitely more happening or more discussion in the press and in the mainstream about refugees even in Australia. Certainly here in Canada, we’ve had a new government elected based on a promise of allowing something like 25,000 Syrian refugees into the country, but the idea of blurred boundaries or permeable borders. One thing that’s happening in the Commonwealth countries at the moment is there is a push to make it easier for Australians, Canadians, and the British to move between the three countries without having to formally apply for visas and things like that in advance. Australia and New Zealand have this relationship where you can just travel freely. If you are an Australian citizen or New Zealand citizen, you don’t need any special paperwork to cross those borders. You can just show up with your New Zealand passport and they’ll let you into Australia. So there’s a discussion going on. That’s not so specific to refugees, per se, but the idea of the permeable borders. But the refugee crisis is really bringing that to the bigger picture, which is this idea of safety and security and freely allowing people that need access to that to come in. So it’s definitely the Saturn-Neptune really coming through, and we’re not even at the exact hit of that first square yet. We’ve still got another week or 10 days from the date of our recording here to get into that.
CB: Right. I mean, one of the things that’s really interesting now, in the aftermath of the Paris attacks, is one of the big themes I know that modern astrologers always talk about when it comes to Saturn is the idea of Saturn indicates something that you fear. And it’s interesting because that’s framed within the context of the natal chart and natal placements of Saturn in the houses as being areas of anxiety or fear in some sense. And I think it’s interesting that now a lot of discussion about not accepting refugees into the US for whatever reason is based on fears surrounding national security or terrorist attacks or what have you. I guess Obama just yesterday had to put together a conference call of all the governors in the United States, from all 50 states, and tell them that they couldn’t override national laws regarding accepting immigrants into different parts of the country, but that that was set by the federal government rather than the local governments regardless of whatever concerns or fears that people had regarding that. Anyway, so I just bring it up because I thought it was interesting that one of those simple keywords of Saturn is then being imported into the domain of Sagittarius.
KS: The discourse.
CB: Yeah. And so, a lot of the discourse really is simply revolving around fear and anxiety concerning foreigners essentially.
KS: Yeah, fear of foreigners, that’s really the theme that’s coming out.
AC: I mean, another very basic Saturn in Sagittarius key concept is that Saturn’s in the sign of Jupiter, and Jupiter’s the traditional ruler of religious activity, especially activity by established religions.
CB: Right.
AC: You’re talking about Saturn in Sag and heightened criticism of religion. It’s not just foreigners, but it is specifically the most religious foreigners and foreigners of a particular religion that the fears are anchored to.
CB: Right.
AC: That double Saturn in Sag.
KS: Yeah.
CB: Yeah. And that’s been an issue in the US, where there was some news story—or there’s been different news stories about different Islamic centers getting vandalized or different mosques getting vandalized in the US over the past week or so. And then it was actually kind of funny but a local metaphysical bookstore here in Denver is called Isis Books, and somebody vandalized the sign because they associated it with ISIS, the terrorist organization. Yeah, so that idea of fear, but also a sort of reactionary movement towards that, that is sometimes very—violent isn’t usually the term I would go for—but it’s a very sort of reactionary, sudden, gut reaction to that that can be very stark and not necessarily very pretty.
AC: Yeah, just one quick note on that. So we’re seeing Saturn in the first decan of Sagittarius, and the vast majority of the images which are used to describe the first decan of Sagittarius show figures that are swift and armed, even more so than the other decans of Sagittarius. We’re dealing with something that’s really quick. Symbolically, when a sign or a decan or something else is armed, it means that it’s aggressive in its responses. We’ve certainly seen swift, armed responses.
KS: Well, yeah, even the way the Paris police have swiftly moved to respond or to retaliate, there was certainly no pause there. They responded very quickly. Even here in Canada, very locally to where we live, there has been a mosque attacked as well. So that reactionary component does seem to be alive and well.
CB: Sure. I mean, it’s fascinating just cuz we did that whole “Saturn in Sagittarius” episode. It’s the longest one I’ve ever recorded. It’s interesting seeing some of those themes just play out so literally only just a couple of months later in terms of what we were anticipating some of the main themes would be, just understanding the basic symbolism. And speaking of religious stuff, I also picked up on another news story within the past week. The title of the news story that was going around was “Thousands of Mormons are Leaving the Church Over a New Gay Apostate Policy,” where the Mormon Church officially changed their stance or codified what their actual stance has always been in very stark terms towards same-sex couples. And this has led some large groups of Mormons to publicly resign from the church, which I thought was interesting as well in terms of some additional Saturn in Sagittarius themes surrounding religions and issues surrounding that.
AC: Yeah, absolutely.
CB: All right. And one other side topic that’s connected with this—I don’t know if you want to get into it, but it’s actually a worthwhile topic more broadly speaking about the practice of astrology and the process of astrology. But one of the observations that you made, Austin, last week was that you had some reticence or some reservations about some of the commentary on the Paris attacks that was happening immediately after it happened and this broader issue about how astrologers process events and how they observe the world, but also how they talk about them publicly. Do you feel like that’s something you want to talk about or reflect on here, since we’re talking about those attacks now?
AC: Oh, sure. I mean, I already put something out on Facebook and it spawned like 300 likes and 70 comments.
CB: Right.
AC: So the cat is out of the bag.
CB: Sure.
AC: I believe it was last Saturday night—which was like the day after—and on my feed it felt like there were hundreds of astrologers going off on the Paris attacks. And my thought was, you know what, I know some people who live in Paris, and I know people who have friends in Paris, and if I were them and I saw that, that would not be healthy, right? And so, the term I believe was ‘I was uncomfortable’ with it. I had a discomfort with it. I tried to frame my comments in personal and subjective language cuz that’s where it’s coming from, right? And I said that I’m uncomfortable with astrologers just racing within hours of a tragedy, and it’s not just about Paris. This is something that comes up every time there’s a school shooting, etc., etc.
CB: Right.
AC: I mean, I instantly start thinking about planetary factors and talking about this with my astro homies. I don’t know. I guess I was uncomfortable, and still am, about the way that people speak about things when they’re really fresh in a totally public way. And what I said is just that I think you can do that with the tact and compassion that that requires, but I don’t see nearly enough astrologers taking the time to do that. It really got me thinking about how this isn’t the ‘internet crazy’ moment. None of us are used to living in a world where we can basically hear each other’s thoughts in public 24/7, right?
CB: Sure.
AC: And I don’t think there’s any moral problem with you and I talking about it, or you and I, Kelly, one minute after it happens, but when you do things publicly, you’re speaking to people who are affected by it at the same time. And then there’s just a general kind of ethical guideline for me, right? Again, I’m not trying to impose—this is my thinking on it and how I try to comport myself. I feel like we should always be a little thoughtful when we sit down and try to tell somebody else’s story, especially if that story is raw and painful. I feel like that goes for race, class, gender, sexual orientation, everything else in between. And if we could just be a little thoughtful about how we tell somebody else’s story, it might be better for everybody.
KS: Yeah, I agree, Austin. I didn’t comment on Facebook mostly because I had the feeling it was a bit of a minefield and sometimes I just think I’d rather talk about that in person with people. It’s personal, my response, just like you said yours. The term that comes to mind—and I think one of you guys might have noted this down earlier—is the idea of ‘ambulance-chasing’. I feel like it’s a little bit in bad taste to jump onto something like this. I think some people are very genuine in terms of wanting to perhaps shed light on what’s going on and using the astrological symbolism to do so. And I think that some people are a little bit more targeted around things like—maybe this is just me being paranoid or suspicious—that idea of search engine, this is the buzz topic. It’s trending, let’s get something out there with my name on it that’s associated with this.
CB: Right.
KS: On the one hand, I can’t fault the business side of that. But when it is a still unfolding tragedy, I do think that a little bit of caution or reflection—particularly, as you were saying, Austin—in the public sphere. I think perhaps those conversations you might want to flesh them out a little bit with people behind closed doors that maybe you trust or are in that inner circle. I find it a little bit off-putting. It sort of turns me off social media when we are in some of those difficult scenarios because I don’t know that it’s helpful. I don’t know that it’s helpful to hear that kind of stuff in the thick of it.
AC: Right. So that reminds me—I just want to jump in with two things. One, bad taste is really exactly how I was feeling, and some people felt like I was laying down a moral blanket statement and dictating the law to them, which is absolutely not where I’m at. It’s just it makes me uncomfortable, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and let’s leave it at that. People certainly shouldn’t be worried about pleasing me.
KS: No.
AC: Another part of that that I kind of unpacked through the discussion for myself was that there’s also this sort of, “Oh, I predicted that.”
CB: Right.
AC: I’ve written an almanac for years and sometimes what I say is creepily close to what happens, but it’s not a prediction, right? There’s a lot of, “Well, I said today would be terrible, and look, it was terrible.” It’s like that’s not a prediction. And it is also a disservice to astrology when astrologers claim to have predicted things that they only loosely rhymed with. so that is also bound up in it.
KS: Yeah. And I think that idea of the disservice, that’s probably what I have a response to, which is the idea that I’m not sure that this is serving people, and I’m not sure that this is serving astrology. Cuz there are certainly—and you guys know—amazing techniques that are fairly involved and complex, that allow people to predict with a high level of accuracy times of turmoil and trials and tribulations for countries as much as for people. And to sort of throw things together in the heat of the moment does a bit of a disservice to the work that some specialized mundane astrologers out there are doing that is very thoughtful and very considered, that comes out in the wash weeks and months later. It’s like, yeah, that’s right. It’s more than just a rhyme with it. It’s more targeted and you picked a location and a timeframe. And I think, yeah, it’s that idea of disservice that probably grates on me a little bit too.
AC: Yeah.
CB: I mean, some of that is with the news networks. It’s often commented on that the 24-hour news cycle and the commercialization—maybe ‘commercialization’ isn’t the right word. But the news networks becoming 24-hour things constantly having to pump out news has led to this cheapening and more like an entertainment treatment of the news. And in the same way with astrology, I think part of what’s going on here—cuz I have some experience with this—is when you’re writing an astrology blog, oftentimes one of the things that you’re writing about is current events. And so, there’s lots of different current events, like somebody got elected president or prime minister, or some major event happened. Some movie star got into a new movie, or some movie became really popular or bombed or something like that, and astrologers are constantly writing about those events on a daily basis in these blogs. And then sometimes something really big happens and there is this question about how soon to cover it and whether you should cover it and what you should say. And that’s sort of where the gray area is a little. Because, on the one hand, I definitely sympathize with what Austin’s saying because there’s something about it that sometimes feels like it’s in poor taste. When you’re writing an astrology blog, you’re trying to write about current events. If you write the article first, before anyone else does, you’ll draw in a ton of traffic of people that are searching for that keyword to see what the astrologers are saying about it, and so astrologers get in the habit of doing that. But then, as a result of that, they also end up chasing after more difficult or tragic stories as well, and there’s something a little unsettling about that. But one of the things that makes this an interesting topic is just where do you draw the line, because it’s such a gray area. At what point or how long should you wait? At what point does a story become too much of a tragedy versus more of a current event that it becomes distasteful just as part of a discussion?
AC: So I have maybe a rule of thumb that I’m gonna be trying to use—cuz this has been really helpful for me to put some thoughts out there and to get so much feedback. So I guess there’s a rule of thumb of just write as if the people it’s happening to can hear you, because they might, cuz it’s public. And that doesn’t mean be silent, but it means just be respectful.
CB: Sure.
AC: I don’t feel like being respectful is too much to ask of astrologers. Astrology itself is ridiculously hard, it’s much harder than just being respectful. So if there’s a rule of thumb, that one’s not too draconian.
KS: No.
CB: Sure. Yeah, be respectful. Yeah, I mean, that’s tough, cuz certainly we understand the impetus or the desire to want to talk about those things publicly. Certainly, as astrologers—once you get into this mindset and that becomes part of your worldview—you’ll immediately look through some of that like that through the lens of astrology, and sometimes that can lead to wanting to discuss it with other people. But I guess, yeah, it becomes a gray area of when are you discussing ideas versus when are you almost exploiting something for traffic or for views or something like that perhaps?
KS: Yeah, I think that’s a great summary essentially.
CB: All right, well, maybe we’ll return back to that later because this is becoming more and more of a topic. I remember thinking this a few tragedies ago, that it was kind of weird that all of the astrologers were jumping on top of this. So I’m sure that this will be a topic that we’ll return to at some point in the future for more of a careful, considered discussion of both sides. Oh, yeah, so the other thing I wanted to mention before we finish our Saturn in Sagittarius recap, I noticed two really prominent Saturn returns happening over the course of the past month. The first one was that Shia LaBeouf actually did this really funny and really weird thing where earlier this month, for a very specific three-day time period, he decided to rent out a theater and watch all of his movies in reverse chronological order, from the most recent one he did all the way to one he did when he was like 12, and in the process, he ended up reviewing his entire life. He set up a webcam and broadcasted it on this website, so you could watch his reaction as he was watching through his entire life chronology for the second-half of his life.
And what I found fascinating about that is for whatever reason it exactly coincided with his exact Saturn return at 5°22’ of Sagittarius. And you’ll remember that a few episodes, in the “Saturn in Sag” one, he was actually one of the people where I was really curious how his Saturn return was gonna turn out because it’s such a prominent planet in chart, ruling the ascendant and being in the eleventh whole sign house, I think conjunct the midheaven, or within the vicinity of the midheaven. So I don’t know if this was deliberate. I mean, it’s almost too coincidental because he was doing it with two other artists who have done other art projects before. You kind of wonder if somebody didn’t tell him that it was his Saturn return and that’s why he centered it on that. He certainly didn’t say that publicly, but it’s kind of suggested that perhaps he knew and planned it that way. On the other hand, we can’t take that for granted and it certainly could have just been a natural expression of what he was feeling or what a person would be feeling as they’re going through Saturn return and that element of wanting to review and reflect on one’s life up to that point. Did you guys notice when he was doing that? It was kind of in the news and I thought it was pretty funny.
KS: It was really cool. One thing I often think about the Saturn return, the experience of it, is it’s like you’re giving yourself a report card on how well you’ve done in life so far.
CB: Right.
KS: And I think you had mentioned this on Facebook or what have you, and I thought, oh, that’s fascinating, because what a way to give yourself a report card to see your progress—I mean, phenomenal. If we all had these little vignette experiences, if we all had made movies or written books or even published articles, and you could go back and look at them in reverse order—I mean, phenomenal.
CB: Yeah, it’s really getting a chance to see yourself at different stages in your evolution as a human being and eventually as an adult.
KS: Yeah, like watching yourself grow up.
CB: Right. I mean, part of that, for most people—but also for him—is there’s gonna be parts you look back on really fondly and that seemed to be the case for him. Especially in one of his older movies, one of his first movies, when he was like 13 or 14 or 12 or something like that, he seemed to really get a kick out of it. But then at other times, you think of going back and looking at yourself in the past and how much you might cringe.
KS: I could never do it cuz I’d be cringing the whole time, I think.
CB: Right. So just imagine watching a three-day review of that, of seeing yourself grow up. It’s like the perfect Saturn return experience and I really appreciated it for that reason. He’s sometimes a controversial figure or somebody that people don’t like very much or criticize for different reasons, but regardless of how you feel about him, it was interesting seeing that as a live, exact, televised Saturn return. But also, it really did seem to build a lot of sympathy and community around him, which I thought was really interesting, both in terms of that Saturn placement itself, as the ruler of his ascendant, contrary to the sect, but also the fact that it was in the 11th house. And I saw some post with him, some recap, where he almost seemed to say something very ‘11th house-y’ about feeling like he had friends or feeling like he had a community as a result of it, that there were people behind him. Yeah, like Jo was saying, it was a really perfect 11th house Saturn return moment.
KS: Yeah, for sure.
CB: Yeah. Did you see that, Austin? Do you think that was the first televised Saturn return?
AC: I’m sure many have been televised unofficially.
CB: Sure, like accidentally.
AC: Yeah, I actually missed that. I’ve had a very busy last couple of weeks.
CB: Right.
KS: Had a few other things going on, Austin?
AC: Right, right. I got married and was exhausted and stuff. But, no, I missed that. I did see one of our other news items that we’re gonna discuss, that’s Saturn in ‘Sag-y’, and so I’d really like to talk about that whenever you’re ready. Shia LaBeouf’s great.
KS: Do it. Is this the MMA fighting business?
CB: Yeah.
AC: Yeah, we’re gonna talk about Ronda Rousey. Are you guys done with Shia LaBeouf?
CB: Yeah, I think so.
AC: I kind of hate Shia LaBeouf.
CB: Oh, you’re not a fan?
AC: No.
CB: Okay. And that’s what is so funny to me about it. He’s one of those people that has Saturn as the malefic that’s contrary to the sect ruling the ascendant. And so, it’s like there is this sense that a lot of people have that for various reasons, they don’t like him, or there’s something about him that they don’t like even though you don’t know him personally. It’s just whatever his persona is. I think that’s such a fascinating manifestation of that and seeing that happen. But one of the things that was weird about the exact Saturn return was you almost had a weird inversion of that at the return, and I’m actually not fully sure why that was. Because he actually got really good press and coverage from this and seemed to have a lot of positive feelings around it. It was not a negative Saturn return experience necessarily from what I can tell.
AC: We’ll see.
CB: Yeah, so he’s still got a couple of years to go. He’s got to get through the rest of Sagittarius. This was just sort of a high point or one of the most pivotal moments, but we’ll see what happens. So let’s go onto your more favorable Saturn return story, which is Ronda Rousey.
AC: I don’t know if this is favorable.
CB: Well, yeah, one of your more favorite celebrities, in a surprise upset, Ronda Rousey—who was the top champion female MMA fighter, who’s become not just a celebrity, but somebody who was very prominent and very well thought of over the past year. It’s been interesting.
AC: So really she blew up during Venus’ retrograde through Leo.
CB: Right.
AC: She was like the poster girl for Venus retrograde—or for the Venus cycle in Leo, which is interesting because she’s actually a Sun in Aquarius. So this was all opposite her Sun, which is kind of interesting. Anyway, she got a ton of press. She was, up until last Saturday night, undefeated in her professional MMA career. I personally feel like the reason that she got all of the ESPN coverage is because she was the person that made half of America realize that women can be badass too. That’s what happens when you train for eight hours a day for 15 years.
CB: Sure.
AC: It doesn’t matter what your genitals are, you become a monster. Anyway, so Ronda had just been crushing everyone, literally beating most of her opponents in like 30 seconds or a minute. They weren’t contests. The vast majority of her wins were just she runs in there, beats them, and then it’s over. And we don’t have a birth time for her.
CB: No, we actually do. We have a birth time for her.
AC: We do?
CB: Yeah.
AC: Okay, awesome. What’s her rising?
CB: You’re gonna love this. She actually has Gemini rising.
AC: Okay.
CB: So that Saturn’s angular, but it’s also in a day chart.
AC: Oh, I love this. Hold on. So that means she has Mars in Aries conjunct the North Node in the 11th.
KS: In the 11th.
AC: Out-of-sect malefics in the 11th. So the 11th is your audience. The 11th is where everybody can see you, and everybody sees her just steamrolling people, right?
CB: Right.
AC: And so, the reason that she’s on topic with Shia LaBeouf is she’s also a Saturn in Sag. So this was her first fight since Saturn moved back into Sag in September. She did have a fight at the end of February when Saturn was doing his little toe-dangling into the pool of Sagittarius, and she won that one handily. But this is the first one since Saturn’s moved back into Sag for keeps, right? Whenever a planet moves into a new sign—but it’s actually just gonna move back—the significations are a little different. But Saturn moved into Sag for ‘keepsies’ in September, and so this is her first fight since then, since she had been so pumped up, and, anyway, she just got hammered. She just got destroyed. I would say she got taken apart. And what’s really interesting for me—as someone who’s done lots and lots of martial arts as my only sport and physical activity since I was 12—was watching the Mars. So her fight happened one day into Mars’ return into Libra, which is something that features very heavily in the coming month and is certainly an important part of recent events. And so, it’s interesting, last year, she had Mars retrograde in Libra opposite her Mars. In her first fight, when Mars has just come back to that territory—which was so loaded up by last year’s retrograde—she’s dismantled, and the precise manner in which she’s dismantled illustrated to me the Libra and Aries symbolism so well. Basically, she’s a Mars-North Node in Aries. So this is gonna be shocking, but she goes right for people and punches them, takes them down and then breaks their arm, and that’s all there is. She just runs up, smash, right?
KS: Wow.
AC: And it’s really, really quick. And so, her opponent, Holly Holm—I haven’t seen her chart—but she certainly embodied the Mars in Libra. And so, if we’re talking about a ‘Libran’ strategy, what does a Libra do when somebody comes in and is very rude and tries to break their arm? They politely sidestep and then maybe offer a repose of some sort. And Holly Holm just politely sidestepped Ronda Rousey and then maybe gave her a punch in the face like 20 times, and Ronda gets increasingly frustrated and sloppy and just keeps trying to get in there and win real quick. And it just doesn’t work cuz Holly just sidesteps and is like, “Actually, I’ll punch you in the face.”
KS: Wow.
AC: And then basically it gets to the point where Ronda—in seven minutes, like the eighth solid backhand cross to the face—goes down for a little bit. And then when she attempts to stand up, Holly kicks her in the face and it’s done. And so, just seeing the ‘Libra-Aries’ thing, it was like the direct versus the polite manner of dealing with conflict.
KS: Wow.
CB: Definitely. And the ‘Saturn return’ element for me was that there was this being taken a notch and this ‘fall from grace’ element because she was being heralded. She was really being exalted. And it’s like as soon as she was defeated, suddenly people are coming out of the woodwork and saying, “Oh, she wasn’t that great anyway,” or “I’m glad now everybody sees that she’s not as good,” as everybody was saying that she was the best fighter in a hundred years. Or that she could beat the top male—what is his name? Floyd Mayweather?
AC: Yeah.
CB: People were saying that they could go into a match together and that she could easily beat the top male MMA fighter. So there may have been this issue of her and this meteoric rise over the past year or so, sort of becoming too big in the public’s eye compared to what she was actually capable of. Or maybe there was an over-idealization, let’s say, not to diminish from what her actual accomplishments are or skills are. But there may have been an over-idealization and then she really got brought down low with this defeat, cuz suddenly a lot of people turned on her and she’s getting the opposite end of the spectrum of what some of her opponents have gotten previously, I guess.
AC: I think it’s really fair to say that she was idealized. As I said earlier, I think that one of the reasons why she was everywhere is because she was the first person, for a lot of people, who realized that women really can be totally badass, right? And so, I think people projected a lot of things onto her. And when you get a ton of stuff projected onto you, then it’s only partially about you, and it’s not up to you when that bubble pops. But she’s literally an Olympic, world-class athlete and she’ll be fine.
CB: Well, what’s next is talking about the rematch, and that’s actually really interesting. This is supposed to be a ‘AA’ time or an ‘A’ time on Astro-Databank. So if this chart is true, then she actually has a day chart, and she hasn’t hit the exact Saturn return yet. But if she had a night chart, I would think maybe she’s gonna have more problems here in the future. But since this is a day chart—oftentimes ‘day chart’ people will have the thing that comes in that knocks them down a peg, but then they have to exert a bunch of effort to overcome, and eventually they’re able to and they’re successful. So I really wouldn’t be surprised to see her make a major comeback at some point, and they’re already talking about doing research as soon as possible. So I’m wondering if that’s not the route through which she redeems herself during the later part of her Saturn return. But at least during this initial part, it seems like the theme is getting really high, but then having a fall, and now, where she goes from there.
AC: Right. And Saturn rules her Sun and midheaven and Mercury, so it would make sense that Saturn’s movements would be connected to very public events in her life.
CB: Right, definitely.
KS: And her exact Saturn return by degree is not actually until December 2016.
CB: So a year from now.
KS: Yeah. So there’s still a fair bit of time for that to develop, I guess.
CB: Sure.
AC: Mm-hmm.
CB: And then at the same time just imagine what she’s going through right now. Cuz she was at the top of the world and everybody thought she was the greatest thing ever, and then she got defeated in this surprise upset. Just imagine—it’s like you’re having a really heavy Saturn transit, and suddenly everyone in the world watches you literally get knocked out or get punched in the face.
AC: She was knocked out, yeah.
CB: Yeah. It was very dramatic and very notable as an example of a Saturn return and how the challenging end of the Saturn return in a very literal sense can sometimes be experienced. All right, well, we’ve talked for about 40 minutes about our review phase. So maybe we should move onto the actual forecast.
KS: Talk about December.
CB: Yeah. All right, so let’s take a look. What are some of the major themes coming up? Maybe we’ll focus on the broader rather than the shorter-term stuff. But what are some of the broader themes and aspects that we can anticipate coming up here in the next few weeks in December of 2015?
KS: I—
AC: Well—oh, go ahead, Kelly.
KS: I was just gonna say the word that came to mind when I was reading over all of our prep notes was a ‘flashback’ month in one way, which is the Uranus-Pluto just coming back a little bit and being triggered by Mars and Mercury. But then I think this might have been your point, Austin, or maybe it was Chris, the real mutable focus. Now that we’ve got the Sun coming back into Sag, and then Jupiter in Virgo, Saturn in Sag, Neptune in Pisces, we’re starting to really see some of those new aspects. Saturn square Jupiter is gonna happen around mid-month. So it’s a flashback on the one hand—sorry, did I say Saturn square Jupiter? I meant to say Sun square Jupiter. I was watching your face, Austin, and clearly I’ve used the wrong word. The ‘s’ word. Yeah, Sun square Jupiter. Yeah, so a little bit of that Uranus-Pluto coming back. And I think one of the big things with December of course is Mars in Libra, which will be interesting.
CB: Yeah, so the entire month is basically Mars going through Libra.
KS: Yes.
AC: Yeah. As I mentioned earlier, this is Mars’ first time back in Libra after a very dramatic, and in many ways, disastrous retrograde through the sign, during the late winter and spring of 2014. Just for point of reference as to the nature of the events that happened, the last we had this big Mars in Libra with the retrograde, the day of the retrograde station was when Russia annexed the Crimea, which led to all sorts of not-very-awesome things happening for lots of people. And with Mars’ return to Libra, Mars returned to Libra last Friday and sort of traded places with the North Node, the North Node regressing back into Virgo, while Mars progressed into Libra—that was one of the things that was happening astrologically when the Paris attacks occurred. And, personally, just watching people as I do in watching charts, I saw a lot of little scuffles break out on a personal level between people during that first four or fives of Mars in Libra. There’s this idea from Hellenistic astrology that a planet shows its significations more dramatically when it enters a sign, and so, I saw that. And so, it’s very interesting to note that Mars—as it continues through Libra—will reenter the exact degrees of its retrograde from 2014, and as it does so, it will find itself in a T-square with Uranus and Pluto. And Uranus and Pluto, although they will not be perfectly squaring, again, to the minute for well over a hundred years—well, never mind. It’s not a hundred years.
KS: For several months.
AC: There won’t be a waxing square like this for over a hundred years. Anyway, they’re not gonna be perfectly square again, but this December is about as close as they’re ever gonna get. It’s gonna be like 2-ish°-2.5°, and you’ll have Mars opposing Uranus and squaring Pluto, which should be challenging.
KS: Let me give dates so our listeners will have them, Austin. We’ve got December 6th and 7th. So Sunday-Monday, Mars square Pluto, and then Mars opposite Uranus, December 10th and 11th. So 10th if you’re in Canada and the US, the 11th if you’re down in Australia or in the southern hemisphere. So ‘interesting’ is your word for that, Austin?
AC: It’s worth paying attention to. So how do I want to delineate this?
KS: It’s just a bit unpredictable. A bit of a roller-coaster.
AC: Yeah. Well, the thing is if there’s an instability—if there’s a deep instability in some relationship or area of life, there’s a high chance of things blowing up around that time. Mars-Uranus aspects, especially hard aspects, are very volatile in and of themselves, and when you have Pluto putting pressure on these things, one, you get these explosions coming from a hidden place, right? Pluto does that. Pluto likes to push things down so that they pop up twice as much, and so it sort of pressurizes and brings this sort of volcanic symbolism into play. And so, it doesn’t mean everything’s gonna explode all at once. It will most likely be another one of many important moments in this sort of very long, unfolding Uranus-Pluto story which has been going on since 2011-2012, depending on where you set that date. And then, on a personal level, if you have planets that are in the middle of cardinal signs, you might need to keep your cool.
KS: Yeah.
AC: It’s certainly not a ‘calming’ configuration. It doesn’t last that long, but it can shorten fuses considerably. On a personal level, when you have things like this, sometimes it’s just people talking about things that need to get talked about, but in a way that is much more destructive than it needs to be. You have the fight that you need to have, but you did it in a way that you really wish you could have talked about it any other way. And so, it’s that kind of thing for a lot of folks on a personal level as far as the weather report goes.
KS: The astro weather. Yeah, it’s hitting 14° and 16° of the cardinal signs. I mean, I always think when Mars comes into a bigger configuration like that, we get that sense of things being ignited, and sometimes they need to come out and burn through. And me, I’m like, what’s good about this? One thing that’s good about this is it’s not happening later in the month over the Christmas holiday/New Year period.
CB: Oh, yeah, that is good.
KS: So I can’t make the energy seem any better cuz of course it is Mars-Uranus-Pluto, it’s volatile and by its nature combustible, and it’s basically the second week of December. We start
and we have it coming up at the end of that week. It’s right before the New Moon in Sagittarius. There’s a dark Moon, a kind of waning Moon overlooking that. In that period too, the Sun’s gonna trine Uranus. So that second week of December looks a little bit choppy and ‘change-y’, and you may want to keep your cool or just be a little bit flexible. Don’t be too rigid about things. And that’s probably the most dramatic thing this month for December. Did you guys spot anything else of any greater calamity?
CB: Uh, no. I mean, Mercury hits its shadow towards the end of the month, or in the second-half of the month.
KS: Yeah.
CB: That’s not any huge calamity, I don’t think.
AC: So one thing that we should mention regarding Mercury is that because Mercury is going to be getting ready for an early January retrograde, it means that he is just flying through signs during December, right? He makes it through the second-half of Sag and then almost all of Capricorn. What does he do? He does something like 45° of movement or something in December.
KS: Like a day?
AC: No, no.
KS: Oh, beg your pardon, 45° through the zodiac. You’re right. December 1, Mercury’s at 15 Sag, and December 31, we’re at 28 Cap. So absolutely, we’re covering a sign-and-a-half.
AC: Right. And so, when a planet is moving very fast, that means that affairs which are connected to that planet move very fast, right? Like conversations and ideas—the mind speeds way ahead, and some of those things will need to be returned to. And some of it—especially for the first couple of weeks—
KS: First three weeks, yeah, it hits the shadow around the solstice.
AC: It’s just things that need to be done and then you move on, you’re not coming back to it. There’s a rapidity of pace when a planet is moving that quickly. And because Mercury has a faster-fast and a slower-slow than a lot of the planets, you see that really pronounced.
CB: One of the things I noticed—and that’s why I actually mentioned that the thing after the Mars-Uranus-Pluto T-square—is that Mercury, when it retrogrades, it’ll station retrograde in early January at 0 Aquarius, then it’ll retrograde back, and it stations direct at 14 Capricorn. So that’s actually right around all those critical degrees with the cardinal signs.
KS: Oh, yeah, good point.
CB: So that means that Mercury’s shadow actually begins in mid-December once it hits about 14° of Capricorn.
KS: Yeah.
AC: Yeah, it stations direct on Pluto.
CB: Yeah.
KS: Yeah, December 19.
AC: And it stations retrograde square Mars and Scorpio, but that’s January.
KS: Yeah.
CB: We can ignore that.
KS: That’s a teaser for next month.
CB: Right. Nice.
KS: Yeah, so it is hitting off that T-square a little bit.
CB: All right, well, that’s fun.
KS: Yeah, so that’s Mercury.
CB: So people that have Mercury activated this year, or for people who that’s hitting a prominent part of their chart, might be especially sensitive to that retrograde and that shadow that’s coming up.
KS: Yeah.
AC: Yeah, and one more thing to note about Mercury, cuz, again, that last third of the month will be Mercury preparing for his retrograde. That retrograde—which we’ll be preparing for at the end of this year—is announcing a new set of Mercury retrogrades, which are gonna take place primarily in earth signs. They’ve been in air signs all this year. And while this next one is gonna station retrograde in an air sign, Aquarius, it’s only gonna do that in the first degree.
KS: Yes.
AC: Almost the entire thing is going to be in Capricorn. Next year it’s gonna be all Mercury retrogrades in earth signs, so that’s a triplicity shift that’s worth noting.
CB: That’s really interesting.
KS: Yeah, it’s fascinating when you look at the annual shifts that we do typically see in Mercury retrogrades. A couple of years ago, it was Mercury retrograde through the water signs, and so each water sign. One of the things that’s interesting around that is that Mercury spends so much time in a sign when it’s retrograde. For example, around December 10, Mercury goes into Capricorn. And other than just a couple of days when it dips into Aquarius, early in January, Mercury is in Capricorn until the middle of February, so we really get this emphasis of the symbolism or the combination of the sign and the planet. So for listeners—who will already I’m sure have an understanding of Mercury in earth signs—that’s a big theme for 2016, but we’re really starting that now. We’re starting Mercury in Capricorn and that’s pretty much our ‘Mercury’ vibe for the next couple of months.
CB: And I should probably mention my first election for the month, which actually takes place right at the beginning, which is December 3. And this is actually one of my favorite elections. I had a lot of difficulties finding elections in the later part of this year. And I actually remember when, Austin, you were looking for a marriage election, and you first asked me to help you find one. I was having a hard time, And I think you actually ended up finding a really amazing one with the position of Venus.
AC: Well, you have to say that now.
CB: Right. I have to say that in retrospect.
KS: No more commentary allowed. Only positive.
CB: It was all right. So this is one of my favorite elections of the later part of this year and it has been for a while. Let me share it with you guys.
KS: While you do that, Chris, I did notice that that hotspot period with the roller-coaster was a week that you had avoided with your elections.
CB: Oh, at the end of December?
KS: The middle period, that 6th-11th time.
CB: Yeah. I mean, part of my comment for December is that I really have nothing for the second-half of December. I do have one election that I throw out there that I’ll mention later, but it’s really not that good. So, honestly, my little statement this month is ‘do the big stuff at the beginning of the month’.
KS: At the start of the month.
CB: Yeah.
AC: That’s great. That’s actually totally my plan.
CB: Okay.
AC: I want to be done and just be in my comfy bomb shelter with alcohol and turkey for the second-half.
KS: That’s fantastic. Cuz I’m actually taking two weeks off at the end of December, which I have never done before. Chris, we’re vibing you.
AC: Yeah, astrology develops your timing.
KS: Yes.
CB: Right. Well, let’s see what you guys think about the election first. So this is my first election and it’s one of my favorite ones of the month. So it has Gemini rising, and it has a line-up of three planets in Sagittarius in the seventh whole sign house. So the ruler of the ascendant is Mercury, which is located in Sagittarius in the 7th house. And Mercury’s actually applying to a square with Jupiter in Virgo in the fourth whole sign house, but each planet is in the other’s domicile. So Mercury is in Sagittarius and Jupiter is in Virgo, and they’re applying to a close degree-based aspect within a couple of degrees. So this is actually a true case of a mutual reception.
AC: Right.
CB: Some astrologers might not look on this favorably because the two planets are in the signs of their detriment or their exile, but I actually think that being in a mutual reception like this—especially in a day chart, where Jupiter is more positive—and otherwise making them angular and generally well-placed is a sufficient mitigation, so that it strengthens their condition and makes them worth using rather than something to avoid; especially compare to what else you could use or what else is available.
AC: Right.
CB: So that’s the focal point of the election. Then you layer on top of that the Moon is in Virgo in the fourth whole sign house, and it’s applying to a conjunction with Jupiter, so we’ve got a nice little Moon-Jupiter conjunction in the 4th. We do have Saturn in the 7th, but as long as you make this a day chart, I don’t think that’s gonna be a huge impediment. The ‘day chart’ thing will offset it. The only catch to that is that the window of opportunity for this election is pretty narrow once the ascendant moves into Gemini. You’ve got to do it with Gemini rising, but you’ve got to make sure it happens before sunset, which will take place once the Sun gets to the descendant at 11° of Sagittarius. So you’ve only got maybe a 20- or 30-minute window, which is plenty of time to initiate most things, but you have to keep that in mind. Because if this did switch over to a night chart, I do think that Saturn would become a serious impediment and a serious problem, especially within the context of partnerships or other people that you’re working with, or people outside of you. It’s also notable that Jupiter is in a superior sign-based square with reception over Saturn, which I think is another mitigating condition that’s not just helpful for Saturn in offsetting that placement, but also for all three of the Sagittarius planets. We’ve also got Venus in Libra, still barely in its own sign in the fifth whole sign house. Mars is also in the 5th, which is a little bit problematic for 5th house matters, but ultimately Venus being in decent shape balances it out. Yeah, so that’s the chart. It’s probably primarily good for 7th house and 4th house things. It’s very much focused on the 7th and the 4th, and the rulers of those signs are relatively well-placed and interacting relatively favorably with each other. Even though they’re applying through a square, the fact that they’re in mutual reception makes it a very constructive, very useful square rather than a more difficult or tenuous one.
AC: Yeah, I like it. I mean, one thing to note is that the Jupiter and the Mercury—which are both in signs which are foreign to them—are potentially dignified within a degree aspect and being in mutual reception, not the level of sign rulership. What you’ve done here—and what I think is a good lesson for people—is that whenever you have a mutable sign rising, it means that Jupiter and Mercury rule the whole of the angular houses.
CB: Right.
AC: If you’re gonna do a ‘mutable sign’ thing, look at Jupiter and Mercury, cuz they’re basically gonna rule all the pivots, and that’s exactly what you’ve done. I think that’s not only a nice election in the middle of a not-amazing time, but it also illustrates that perfectly.
CB: And there’s also an alternate one. Go ahead, Kelly. I’ll just pull up the new chart while you’re talking.
KS: Yeah, I was just gonna say the other thing I really like about that chart is the support from the Moon. It is cuddling up to Jupiter, but it’s actually gonna hit, by degree, Mercury first. So the Moon is kind of bouncing between those two, key pivot rulers or angular house rulers. And there’s something about the support from the Moon. When the Moon has good light, where is the Moon throwing that light? It’s a little bit of a benefit or a boost that there’s some energy or support that those planets get from that interaction from the Moon, in addition to the heavy emphasis there on the 7th and 4th houses. I mean, it’s clearly a chart for topics associated with those areas of life.
CB: And it’s also nice cuz the Moon rules the 2nd. It’s like people always want several houses to be good for different topics. They’re like, “Make the 10th house good and make the 7th house good. And I want relationships and my friendships.”
KS: I want my money, too.
CB: Right. And then they throw in the money, and it’s really hard oftentimes to also get the money house well-placed. But this is one of those charts where also the financial house is extremely well-placed because the ruler is the Moon, and it’s applying to that conjunction with Jupiter. So there’s an alternate for this chart that you can use that illustrates the point that Austin was just making, which is that anytime you put one of the mutable signs on the angles, the same two planets are gonna rule all four signs. So this is the very end of the same chart, which is set for earlier that day, on December 3, at 12:30 PM wherever your location is. I forgot to mention the time on the previous one. The previous is December 3, 2015, at 4:10 PM, or basically just before sunset. So the alternate chart, it’s the same chart, it just has Pisces rising. So Jupiter is the ruler of the ascendant, and it’s, again, placed in the seventh whole sign house, this time in Virgo, in a mutual reception with Mercury, which is in the 10th house, and Mercury is applying to a square with Jupiter with reception. The Moon is applying to the square with Mercury with reception and then a conjunction with Jupiter. Again, it’s the ruler of the ascendant in the 7th, so, again, it’s a very partnership- or relationship-oriented election. But this one’s a little bit more focused on 10th house matters pertaining to career than the other one. The only thing I don’t like about it, as much as the other one—and the reason why I recommend the 4:10 chart over this one for most things—is the financial sector of this chart. If that’s important in your election, it’s not as well-placed, because it has Aries on the cusp of the 2nd house and it’s ruled by Mars in a day chart in the 8th, which is otherwise not really terribly well-placed. So those are my two charts for early December.
AC: Nice, nice. I feel like we should just say a little bit about what it’s gonna be like to have planets go through Sagittarius this December, because Sagittarius is ruled by Jupiter, and we have the ruler of Sag, Jupiter, in Virgo, which is a notably awkward place. And there is a square or a 90° angle between Virgo and Sagittarius, and so some of their significations are naturally furtive in relationship to one another. On a very simple level, Sagittarius—where we’re gonna have Saturn, where we’re gonna have the Sun for a lot of the month, where we’re gonna have Mercury for half the month—is a place of ‘go fast, get things done’, right? The symbol of Sagittarius has a horse body for going fast and a bow for nailing different projects or achieving different goals or picking targets. But we have as the ruler or the guiding principle Jupiter in Virgo, which on a very simple level, Virgo is about doing everything extremely thoroughly. So we have a tension between “That’s good enough, let’s move on” and “We got a hundred things to do, we’ve only got so much time, come on, come on, come on,” versus “Well, everything needs to be done right.” And so, I think a lot of people will experience a very general tension between how much time do I spend on these things? What can I prioritize versus what just needs to be scratched off the list?
KS: Yeah, that’s a really good point. And I think that probably will peak, if you like, around the Sun-Jupiter square, which is around the 14th. So right mid-month with those two planets. And that’ll be the first time they form that particular configuration. We’ve had a sextile from the Sun in Scorpio back to Jupiter in Virgo, but a different vibe there altogether. So it’s a great way that you’ve described it, Austin, that difference between the ‘hurry up and get it done’, which is so Sag, and the Virgo ‘I just want to make sure I did it right, to the exclusion of all else’. And so, for people to be prepared to make choices between those two mindsets—or those two operating guidelines, or operating principles—in some circumstances you’ll be better off just getting things done (Sag), in others, you’ll be better off paying attention, but maybe not trying to do it all in every situation.
AC: Right, cuz you can’t.
KS: You can’t. Yeah, you have to say, “This is the Sag ‘sit’” or “This is a Virgo ‘sit’, and I’m going to apply myself accordingly.” That could be Kelly’s shorthand there: a Sag situation or a Virgo situation. What do you think, Chris?
CB: One of the things I noticed—it’s connected with an observation Austin made not too long ago about the Sun-Saturn conjunction in Scorpio—is this will be the first Sun-Saturn conjunction in Sagittarius this month, which seems really notable because the last three years have been Sun-Saturn conjunctions in Scorpio. So that sort of ties into a little bit of your theme. Because even from Saturn, we get a little bit of a ‘slow down’ vibe as it’s going through Sagittarius rather than allowing it to speed up. There’s something holding things back and requiring greater thought and deliberation than usual.
AC: Right. And you have the general ‘Sag’ thing, which is like ‘run around fast and do things’, but Saturn’s there. So it’s like you have 20 minutes to accomplish as many things as you can from the list, and you will be graded on how well you’ve done each of them.
CB: Sure.
AC: Just to give an example from my life, a lot of what I have to do before Christmas is I have maybe 50,000 words to edit different people’s essays for a project that I’m working on, right? And so, we can say that editing is a Virgo ‘sit’. But at the same time, things need to go to the printers, so I can’t spend 20 hours on each 5,000-word essay, which is what I would like to do with my Saturn in Virgo. It’s literally ‘how deep do you go’ versus ‘how much time do you have’, right? And there’s gotta be a compromise if you find yourself involved in the type of labor which has potentially infinite depth. I think both writing and editing have that.
KS: Yeah, totally.
AC: Virgo is Mercury-ruled, right? Especially if you have planets natally in Virgo or Sagittarius, like myself, it’s quite likely that you’ll have situations like this and you need to make some judgment calls, cuz you don’t have infinite time to do infinite things.
CB: Yeah, I ran into that recently with that profections lecture, where I got up to like 119 slides for the PowerPoint I’d been preparing for years. And I realized that the first 75% on the basic method of profections was done, but there was still this other one which was gonna take another hundred slides for the advanced method of profections. And I decided I had to cut it off at some point, so I went as far as I could with the basic method of profections, which is the first 75% of the lecture, and then I squeezed in an overview of some main points of the advanced method in the last 25%, and then just called it a day and recorded the lecture. But it was nice because it also matched with the other thing you said the other day, Austin, which was that I just had two days to record it. So I knew I had two days to record 119 slides, and it did take me until two in the morning on the final day, but I got it done.
KS: Oh, my God. You’re just a marathon man, Chris, honestly.
CB: Yeah, so that’s why this is the first podcast this month as well, so my apologies to the listeners. But hopefully some good things will come out of it pretty soon.
KS: Yeah. So self-imposed limits, I guess, or that kind of internal regulation. I think Austin and I totally relate to the editing/writing side of things, and, Chris, the presentation. Any time we’re giving a lecture at a conference or on an online platform, you want to tell everything. But you’re naturally bound by the 75-minute amount of time that you have, which invokes a sense of, well, I can’t do everything. And so, limits are not bad. I think one thing about the Saturn in Sag—it’s really about how we relate to Saturn—is the idea that limits can be helpful, and they can give you guidelines, and they can give you a sense of containment. So rather than rail against them, do what you can within them essentially.
CB: Yeah, and learn how to have your own self-imposed limits. Sometimes that can be a good thing rather than something that’s burdensome or oppressive. I guess that’s part of the lesson of Saturn in Sag in terms of what I’m coming to terms with. You have a subject that could be boundless and that you could talk about—
KS: Sag—it’s running forever.
CB: Right. You could talk about it 200 or 300 slides, but at some point you have to cut it off and have some limits. The idea of setting your own personal limits might be a good lesson over this time period.
KS: It’s—oh, you go, Austin.
AC: Oh, I was just gonna say while we’re talking about trying to manage whatever Saturn in Sag is lording over in your life, Saturn is really tightly squared Neptune for the whole month, right. And so, that makes it a little harder. That makes it more important, but it also makes it harder to deal with a planet that pretty much everybody agrees, no matter what else they say, is really not about boundaries or being concise. And so, within a within-a-degree square makes it harder and probably more important for Saturn to find proper limits. It may be more difficult to find them, but it’s also more crucial.
KS: Yes. And this is a tiny soundbite for Saturn that I come back to—and I’m finding a lot with Saturn in Sag particularly—this idea of ‘quality over quantity’. To do something well within whatever limited timeframe you have, rather than to try and do everything.
CB: Definitely. That’s a huge Saturn theme. And I see that really prominently in people that have Saturn prominently placed. Like one of the people I always think of or that immediately invokes for me is Robert Schmidt. Everything he does, he does to like an extremely high quality. But sometimes he focuses so much on doing things at a high quality that he’s never able to let it go and release it. And so, you run into that dual issue of when is it good enough to let go versus at the same time wanting to have very high standards and put out something that’s high quality and covers all the bases.
AC: Yeah, that’s interesting. The mythological Saturn/Kronos provides a sort of bizarre, inverted birth allegory in that one of Kronos’ main myths involves him swallowing his children. Metaphorically, especially when we’re using a mythical form of metaphor, having children is creating, right? And gods have children. They accidentally cry and kids spring up from that, or they cut their foot and blood comes out and they have kids from that. Gods are always having kids, right? And so, if we take children as sort of a biological metaphor for the creative act, there’s this tendency with Saturn to hold all of the children inside. In that case, he’s literally devouring them, right? And so, we have this weird oral inversion of the process of giving birth. Instead of the babies coming out, the babies are going in the mouth. And so, we have to let go.
KS: Great point, Austin.
AC: Really? Okay. I thought it was just kind of Freudian and bizarre.
KS: I liked it. I mean, you know me, it doesn’t have to be totally G-rated or pleasant. That was great. Cuz that’s so true, that Saturn is a binding energy of the holding on, and we need to have them coming back out. I love that.
CB: Definitely. And speaking of Saturn, that’s actually my second election.
KS: Oh, yeah, good.
CB: Did you like that segue?
KS: Yeah, I had a solstice segue for Saturn, but you go with your election.
CB: Okay. I’ll do mine, cuz mine’s on the 14th.
KS: We haven’t done enough elections.
CB: All right. I actually noticed this in November as well—but it’s also true for a large part of December—and this is an issue I’ve actually been running into. I don’t know. Maybe you guys have had this as well. Sometimes when you’re writing a column months ahead of time, you’ll have a hard time finding—especially for elections—good elections during that time period as you’re trying to do a cursory glance over a large swathe of the year. But then when you actually get to that time period—and you’re in the middle of feeling what the energies are—you know what’s available versus what’s not, cuz you’re actually doing things on a day-to-day basis at that point. Sometimes you start seeing elections or timeframes once you actually get there, that you didn’t notice months earlier. So I found that actually with some very great elections during November and December, you can use Aquarius rising and make Saturn the ruler of the ascendant. And then Saturn is located in Sagittarius in the eleventh whole sign house in a day chart, because during this part of the year, the Sun is in the top-half of the chart. So the Sun is in the 11th house in this chart, Saturn is in Sagittarius, and it’s actually got a superior sign-based square from Jupiter, which is located at 22 Virgo in the eighth whole sign house with reception. So that’s actually a condition of bonification where Jupiter is affirming or confirming and stabilizing what Saturn wants to indicate.
So, aside from that, the chart also features the Moon in the 1st house, in Aquarius, applying to a sextile with Saturn with reception. So that’s also very positive and strengthening and focusing on Saturn’s placement. Venus is in the 10th in Scorpio, which is sort of okay. Mercury’s not doing great. It’s over in Capricorn in the 12th, but it’s not a very Mercury-focused election. It’s more focused on the Saturn element. Yeah, so it’s actually a pretty good election for 11th house matters, or at least it’s pretty focused on 11th house matters with the ruler of the ascendant there. The ruler of the 11th itself is in the 8th, which normally could indicate some difficulties. But the fact that it’s a benefic that’s of-the-sect-in-favor, that’s a relatively positive planet, it kind of balances that out, so that you would expect the more positive spectrum of the 8th house significations, like financial benefits from other people’s money or other people’s financial matters positively affecting the native potentially.
AC: I also just want to add that North Node is getting really close to Jupiter. And if we look at the North Node as an intensifier of whatever it touches—which is one of the traditional schools of thought—that’s a lot of extra juice for Jupiter in Virgo, which Jupiter in Virgo might need.
CB: Definitely. I mean, one of the things that’s interesting—if you just look at natal astrology, I’ve noticed a lot of people that are millionaires or billionaires sometimes having heavy 8th house placements. So this notion of the 8th house being other people’s money, sometimes that can get channeled in a very personal direction that ends up being useful for the native or useful for the person initiating the action. Especially in charts like this where Jupiter is the ruler of the 2nd house, and it is the ruler of the 11th house as well, which the ruler of the ascendant is located in. So the chart would be especially good for, let’s say, initiating actions that involved 11th house people, which is like friends and groups and alliances and social movements, but especially ones that are supposed to have some sort of positive financial benefit, or which other people’s resources and finances are tied into the picture in a positive way. That would be the most specific thing you could probably use this for, but in terms of other things, it’s just a good general electional chart as well, as long as you’re not doing something more 9th ‘house-y’. I do think one of the shortcomings of this election is you start getting into the thick of the Mars-Uranus-Pluto square, and Mars being in a day chart in the ninth whole sign house is potentially a bit problematic for some 9th house matters. Yeah, so that’s my other good electional chart for this month. There’s, during this time, other Aquarius rising charts that you could use that I would recommend taking advantage of, because we’re not gonna have those once we get to most of next year; because at that point, if you do Aquarius rising, the Sun is gonna be below the horizon. So you would end up with Saturn contrary-to-the-sect in a night chart, which generally you want to try to avoid for electional purposes.
KS: Cool.
CB: And then there’s one other election later in the month, but it’s really not one that I actually recommend very much. It’s just sort of usable—
KS: If you have to.
CB: Yeah, and that’s December 21, which is connected to what our next segment will be. But December 21, at 11:30 in the morning. I forgot to say, the previous chart, just to clarify, on December 14, was at 9:55 in the morning, with early Aquarius rising. So the December 21 chart is at 11:30 in the morning, with mid-Pisces rising, Jupiter ruling the ascendant, placed in the 7th. The Sun and Saturn are in Sagittarius in the 10th. The Moon is in Taurus, exalted, in the 3rd and applying to a somewhat wide trine with Jupiter. But the downside is that Mercury is really closely tied into a conjunction with Pluto and a square with Uranus, and it’s gonna then be applying to a square with Mars.
AC: It’s actually applying to sextile with Venus.
CB: Okay. Well, that’s a good little offsetting factor then.
KS: Yeah, that’ll be the first one.
CB: Right. But otherwise still in kind of a tension-based thing. So while this would be an acceptable election, it’s not got Mercury in a very favorable condition, so there could be some problems with communication or messaging or other things. Okay, so, yeah, do you want to talk about the solstice, Kelly?
KS: Well, I just thought, since we’re astrologers, we probably should mention the solstice. But then since we live in the Western world in the 21st century, we also need to talk about Christmas. So, yeah, the solstice—just that it’s happening, it’s the big turning point of the Sun. I think it’s the 21st here in Canada and the US, and I wanted to give the date for Australia, for our listeners down there. It’s the 21st in Australia. So it’ll be early morning here in North America, the 21st, and in the evening in Australia. So it might be like 4:45 in the morning, Chris.
CB: It looks like it switches over in the evening.
KS: Oh, I beg your pardon. I’m doing Eastern, so it might be late on the 20th. Oh, hang on.
CB: As long as I have this right, and I’m not messing something up with the ‘animate chart’ feature, it looks like—
KS: Oh, shit. I’ve got the solstice date for 2016.
CB: Okay.
KS: Oh, my God. I will adjust that for Sydney. Oh, my God, what a Gong Show.
CB: So it looks like it’s just before 10:00 PM Mountain Time at least, December 21.
KS: Too funny. We like to give people a heads-up, but that’s probably a little bit too much. Yeah, I’ve got just before 3:00 PM on the 22nd, 2015, in Australia. And I think the segue from Saturn there is that’s really the big shift into the Sun in Capricorn. It just tones things down a little bit from all the ‘rah, rah’ Sagittarius. We already have Mercury in Capricorn. It just kind of invites a little bit more of that yin or introspective, softer energy. And there’s a prelude—of course we do have a big Full Moon in Cancer on December 25. I’m pretty sure that’s in all the major timezones. So I thought that was an interesting pairing of astrological events, Full Moon in Cancer with Christmas Day, which not everybody’s celebrating it, but a lot of people are obviously gonna be doing family stuff on this very sensitive and emotional ‘family’ Full Moon. I don’t know, what do you guys think?
AC: I think Uranus stations direct on that day.
KS: Yes, that’s exactly right. You had mentioned that. So it’s an energetically-alive day, in addition to it being a culturally-significant date, I guess. And it’s always interesting when we get stuff that happens around that Christmas period because everybody seems to be running a little bit more sensitively or things are a little bit more heightened. So Uranus station, plus a Full Moon—I don’t know, do we come back to the ‘outburst’ or ‘release’ theme?
CB: Yeah. I mean, cuz even Mercury’s getting up there to the square with Mars at that point. It’s at 22 Capricorn, and Mars is at 24 Libra. So it’s really shifting a lot of the focus back to the cardinal signs. You thought you got away from the cardinal square or the cardinal pile-up of T-square planets over the past decade, but then some other planets come in and reconnect those in a way that’s kind of tense.
KS: Totally.
AC: Yeah. What I do like about it is that Uranus stationing direct. So we know that whenever a planet stations, it’s thought to provide very clear events and experiences of the nature of that planet. And Uranus in Aries has been a big fan of breaking old patterns or existing structures in the interest of personal sovereignty or the sovereignty or freedom of a particular demographic, right? In a family context—which Full Moon in Cancer is certain a family context, and so is the holiday—because the Full Moon occurs at 3 Cancer, and Uranus is all the way over it at 16, I guess I would like to believe that some of these family moments may provide a positive breakthrough or a casting away or shattering of old patterns that isn’t immediately traumatic or bloody. Mars is still in Libra, but it’s long past departed from any of our players here. And the moment of the Full Moon is more than 24 hours
the Moon actually hits Uranus by square. So there’s enough slack with this arrangement that it doesn’t need to or even want terribly to be explosive.
CB: Okay. So the keyword for Christmas is ‘not immediately traumatic or bloody’.
AC: Right.
KS: I mean, the other thing too is the Moon is in Cancer. It’s a well-dignified Full Moon. And I think the point Austin is making—if I put my rosy spin on it—
AC: I thought I put a rosy spin on it.
CB: Oh, it was very rosy.
KS: The language is not rosy. Not traumatic. I mean, personally, I’m just thinking this is all lovely. I’m not necessarily saying it will be lovely for everyone, but my personal family story, this Christmas, my husband and I are going back to celebrate with my family in Australia for the first time in our seven years of being together, which is exciting in and of itself. But we’re also going to be celebrating with my brand new baby nephew; so the first grandchild in the family. He was born earlier this year. So there’s a sense of the gathering, the generations, the connection, the lineage, the Cancer Moon, the memories, the family line. It’s different. It’s not necessarily what will always be happening, but there’s a freshness. Maybe the Uranus thing is a freshness.
AC: Yeah, new baby. The first time you’ve done it in seven years.
KS: Yeah.
AC: Those are pattern-breaking things. Those are out of the ordinary, which is a good example of what Uranus can do when it’s not—
KS: Being traumatic.
AC: —flipping over your board game.
KS: Yeah.
CB: Yeah. And there are some very nice flowing aspects, which I think is part of what you’re pointing out. Because Venus and Jupiter and Mercury are all getting to the same degrees of feminine signs, so they’re all forming some nice trines and sextiles with each other at that time. So it seems like people that have some of those placements—around 22° of some of the mutable signs and some of the fixed signs, or even some of the cardinal signs—
KS: Earth and water. Really the earth and water signs.
AC: Some of the signs.
KS: Some of the signs.
CB: Some of the signs will do very well. Like Mercury’s trine Jupiter exactly at 22 Virgo and 22 Capricorn, and it’s sextiling Venus at 24 Scorpio. And Venus, yeah, is sextiling Jupiter. But then you’ve got this other end of the spectrum where you’ve got some tension between Mercury and Mars and some of the cardinal stuff. So it’s all gonna depend on if you’ve got some of those heavy cardinal placements falling at critical points in your chart, or if you’ve got some of those mutable or fixed placements falling at critical points in your chart; that’s probably gonna dictate how it goes.
KS: For sure. And then, yeah, the Venus sextile Jupiter and the Mercury trine Jupiter, those two aspects do peak December 24-25-26. The Mercury-Mars—because Mercury’s going a little bit slower—that one actually doesn’t become exact until the 29th or the 30th. So it’s a couple of days.
CB: Oh, interesting.
KS: We’re out of the thick of that Christmas/Boxing Day holiday period.
AC: Yeah. And that Mercury-Mars is gonna happen again, and then again.
CB: Oh, right. This is just the first one.
KS: Yeah.
AC: Right.
CB: Cuz it’ll retrograde.
KS: Yeah, just to have those Venus-Jupiter-Mercury trines and sextiles over the Christmas period, it’s definitely a nicer Christmas astrologically than what we’ve seen in the last couple of years when the Uranus-Pluto square has been tighter.
AC: Right.
CB: And then I think you wanted to mention New Year’s Eve as well, Kelly.
KS: I mean, that’s a question people often ask online and stuff. “What’s the astrology like on New Year’s Eve? And will it be good for a party?” I think this year the big standout is Moon-Jupiter essentially, which is not necessarily on the night of New Year’s Eve. I think it’ll probably peak in the afternoon. People down in Australia actually will probably get it. And it will be visible actually, so it’ll be beautiful. But Moon-Jupiter-North Node is fairly, I don’t know, it just looked—without being extravagant cuz it’s Virgo—just a little fun. I don’t know, what did you guys think? Do you ever think about when people are like, “Oh, what kind of a celebration are we gonna do this year? Check out the chart?”
AC: Sure.
CB: My keyword for Moon-Jupiter conjunction Virgo would be something like ‘cautiously optimistic’.
KS: Of course.
CB: Something like that. But, yeah, it does look very nice.
AC: Well, I would say Moon-Jupiter-North Node, thumbs up. Venus’ very recent ingress into Sagittarius at that point, thumbs up. A really tight Mercury-Mars square—
KS: Thumbs down.
AC: Don’t get drunk and get into arguments with people. It’s there. Like if you want to get in an argument with somebody after you guys have had some drinks, you totally can. The option is very much available. You don’t have to, but it’s totally there for you.
KS: Oh, that’s fantastic. I guess that wraps up the month just from a main aspect thing.
AC: I think there’s one thing that we should talk about.
KS: What else? Yes, Austin?
AC: We didn’t talk about the fact that Venus is gonna be in Scorpio for almost the entire month.
KS: We’re trying to ignore that, aren’t we? Actually, Chris, you put a beautiful quote on Twitter in the last week or two about planets in detriment, and it was on the ‘Mars in Libra’ example. But you said it’s basically like trying to dress up a soldier in a tutu, which I thought was great for Mars in Libra. And ever since then I’ve been trying to come up with one Venus in Scorpio that was actually PG-13-rated, and I failed miserably.
AC: Oh, it’s the kind of depressive goth girl in high school.
KS: Goth girl, that’s a good one. That’s a good one.
AC: And she kind of hates you, and she probably has some good reasons, but she won’t necessarily tell you why.
KS: No, they’re in the vault. Nobody’s gonna know why.
AC: Or we can go gender equal. There are lots of goth guys that can easily qualify as Venus as well. We can go the Shukra route. But I think Venus in Scorpio is interesting because it’s one of these detriments where we have a planet that’s in its triplicity dignity
KS: Yeah.
AC: Venus has triplicity dignity in every water sign. Does Venus and water make sense? Yes, they do. Can you feel things and enjoy things when Venus is in water signs? Absolutely.
KS: Tots, yeah.
AC: However, there’s this special disadvantage when Venus is in Scorpio that we take into account in addition to that, not instead of that, right? So Venus is capable of relating, or capable of doing business because she has triplicity dignity in Scorpio, but there’s this detriment. And so, the detriment that I see every year both in people’s lives, as well as my own, is there’s a tendency for that very awake and capable capacity for feeling to get sucked down into feeling negative things and to dwelling on what I don’t like about this person. And it’s very similar to Venus’ fall in Virgo where she also has triplicity dignity. It’s like getting stuck on the one thing that’s wrong, externally with Virgo. And then with Venus in Scorpio, it’s getting stuck on the one thing you can’t trust about a person or you’re uncertain about that creates some fear or anxiety, right? And then, natally, to a certain degree you can see this when Venus in Scorpio hits natal positions, but I think you really need natal positions for this. I’ve noticed that there’s a tendency with some folks who have especially ‘feeling’ planets in Scorpio to keep pushing deeper and deeper into a relationship and getting more and more intimate until they hit the thing that they don’t want. It’s like let’s keep getting closer until I hate you, right? It’s like digging deeper and deeper and deeper and finding all sorts of interesting stuff until you hit a power line. The remedy for that is just to remember that if you do that with anybody, you’re eventually gonna find something you don’t like, and to not get stuck on that if you don’t have to.
CB: There’s Venus sextiling Pluto right about December 17, which might be a good thing in terms of what you were talking about, or a good window for that in terms of digging deeper and finding things.
AC: Yeah. And if you’re gonna do a sort of relentless drilling, just know that you will find something you don’t like if you’re dealing with another human being, and you both need to have within the parameters of your relationship the space to work through those things. But if you don’t have that kind of relationship with someone, don’t keep pushing closer and closer, cuz you’re gonna hit a power line or something gross like a buried body or something, metaphorically.
CB: Metaphorically speaking, right. Yeah, and then it looks like later in the month—as we’ve said before, around December 24—Venus completes the sextile with Jupiter. So there’s some positive flowing things coming out of that Venus placement in Scorpio at that time, which seems pretty nice.
AC: Yeah.
KS: Yeah.
CB: Yeah, we should do a show at some point. Cuz I was just thinking about the clothing analogy of planets in different signs as being a great way to make analogies for the planets.
KS: It would probably be really helpful for people that are learning and getting their head around it.
CB: Right, definitely. Yeah, I mean, you guys were talking about—what was your example of Venus in Scorpio again? It was the goth girl?
AC: Yeah, the goth girl. It’s the goth person in high school who’s, one, very aesthetically-oriented. Like goth culture is not un-Venusian at all. Like lots of fashion, lots of very carefully crafted appearance, but tending to focus on the negative.
CB: Sure.
AC: I think of myself when I was a 15-year-old Marilyn Manson fan—
KS: Oh, gosh, Austin.
AC: —and hating everybody.
CB: The other two I can think of for Venus in Scorpio, just right off the top of my head, one would be the dominatrix, the other would be Kali, the Indian or Hindu goddess. The Hindu goddess Kali.
KS: Oh, the goddess, yes.
CB: Right. Cuz you’re like, “Oh, it’s a goddess, that sounds nice,” and then it’s like, “Well, it’s a goddess with a belt made out of human skulls.”
KS: Yeah.
AC: Yeah. Well, I think Kali is a little too big a figure. Kali, especially Mahakali, is thought to be sort of the womb out of which everything emerges and returns to. So the symbolism, you have to really condense that in a way that’s not very accurate if you want to just describe one Venus position. I know that that’s what it looks like, but having spent some time with that figure, I feel like that’s not a great one, cuz it kind of only deals with the one manner in which she’s depicted rather than the actual meaning of that figure.
CB: Yeah. I mean, my analogy of Mars in a tutu is not exactly the most nuanced analogy in drawing out the potential, multivalent meaning.
AC: But Mars in a tutu is not honored and revered by millions of people.
CB: All right, all right, point taken. All right, maybe we’ll do a show like that at some point in the future and see what other analogies we can come up with. And for that matter, since this is gonna be the end of the year, we might want to talk about our next forecasting episode being an outlook for the year ahead. That’s actually what Austin and I did last year. We actually did a look at 2015. But it would be nice if the three of us could maybe turn the next episode into a broader outlook for the next year.
KS: Sure.
CB: Cool. All right, well, are there any points that you guys wanted to mention as we’re getting towards the end of this and starting to wrap things up?
AC: I mean, it’s just gonna be a sprint until planets hit Capricorn. Like that’s kind of what the month’s gonna feel like.
CB: Very frantic in getting everything done.
AC: Mm-hmm.
KS: Trying to, with that particular hectic week in the second week, with the Mars-Pluto-Uranus.
CB: Definitely. All right, and my advice from the electional perspective is get everything done in the first-half of the month, cuz that’s when the great elections are, and then just, I don’t know, take it easy the second-half of the month. Or continue on and bring to completion things that you’ve already initiated.
AC: Yeah, sprint and then take a breather.
KS: Take a break. A well-earned one.
CB: All right, well, that sounds like a good note to end on. All right, well, thanks everyone for listening to this episode of the podcast. If you want to find out any more information about our guests, our co-hosts, what are your websites again, guys?
AC: Austincoppock.com. And that’s austin-c-o-p-p-o-c-k.com.
KS: And mine’s kellysastrology.com. Or you can find me on Facebook or Twitter where I seem to be attracting some new followers. So you can come and chat there too.
CB: Excellent.
KS: I just hit 3,000 people on Twitter.
CB: I know. I’m really jealous. Cuz we used to be around the same, like at a thousand followers, and then you just far exceeded me. So I have to up my Twitter game, I think.
KS: You know what happened, I don’t feel like I’ve been doing that much, and I don’t necessarily want people to make a judgment here. But John Edwards, you know, the psychic medium guy somehow started following me, and every now and then he’ll retweet something, and I’m quite sure that’s helping.
CB: All right, well, I need to get my own friend-psychic follower then at some point.
KS: I’ll just retweet you, and maybe he’ll retweet you as well, who knows.
CB: Okay. Also, thanks to our guests in our audience and people who joined the show. I appreciate you guys joining us and sending in some of the questions as we were talking here, and also for your support to keep the show going and keep us churning out new episodes. All right, well, I think that brings us to the end of this episode. So thanks everyone for listening, and we’ll see you next time.