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The Astrology Podcast

Ep. 213 Transcript: Interviews with Astrologers from Romania and England

The Astrology Podcast

Transcript of Episode 213, titled:

Interviews with Astrologers from Romania and England

With Chris Brennan, Oli Andrei Olar, Lelia V, Carmina Amza, and Israel Ajose

Episode originally released on July 12, 2019


Note: This is a transcript of a spoken word podcast. If possible, we encourage you to listen to the audio or video version, since they include inflections that may not translate well when written out. Our transcripts are created by human transcribers, and the text may contain errors and differences from the spoken audio. If you find any errors then please send them to us by email: theastrologypodcast@gmail.com

Transcribed by Teresa “Peri” Lardo

Transcription released March 4th, 2024

Copyright © 2024 TheAstrologyPodcast.com

CHRIS BRENNAN: Hi, my name is Chris Brennan, and you’re listening to The Astrology Podcast. This episode features three short interviews that I did last month with different astrologers while I was traveling through Europe for two astrology conferences. The first two were recorded in Romania on June 9th 2019 and the third was recorded on June 17th in London. I’m recording this introduction and then releasing the episode hopefully today on July 12th 2019 with Sagittarius rising here in Denver, Colorado, around six p.m. I also did some longer interviews on specific topics that I’ve been releasing as individual episodes since I got back home a few weeks ago, but these were meant to be just some brief, casual discussions with some cool astrologers that I met during the course of my travels. These were originally supposed to be just video interviews, but I decided to release an audio version as well for listeners who prefer this format. I would recommend checking out the description page for this episode on the podcast website for links to the websites and social media accounts for each of the astrologers interviewed.

CB: Thanks to the patrons who support my work on the podcast and made episodes like this possible. If you’d like to support the production of future episodes of the podcast and get access to subscriber benefits, like early access to new episodes, then consider becoming a patron through our page on Patreon.com. For more information about that, visit TheAstrologyPodcast.com/subscribe.

CB: All right, with that introduction out of the way, let’s get started with the interviews.

CB: Hey, how’s it going, guys? Thanks for joining me today.

OLI ANDREI OLAR: It’s a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having us.

LELIA V: Hello, Chris. Thank you for the valuable information you share with us and for the good time we had.

CB: Yeah. You are two of my favorite people I’ve met since I’ve been here in Romania the past couple of days. What are your names?

LV: Lelia.

OAO: And I’m Oli.

CB: Lelia and Oli.

OAO: Yeah.

CB: Cool. And where are you both from?

OAO: I was born in Oradea, which is like, a city next to the Hungarian border. But I live in Cluj, which is like, the capital of Transylvania, since I was a student there – biophysics.

LV: I was born in Pitești, which is a city around 120 kilometers from Bucharest, but I’ve been living in Bucharest the last 10 years.

CB: Okay. And you’re both students of astrology, I would consider you both to be astrologers, right? Do you consider yourself to be astrologers?

LV: I’m more of an astrology enthusiast. I’ve been studying it for the last five, six years, so. I’ve been self-taught but also attended the Fidelia courses. I would really love to work as an astrologer, but I don’t have anything planned right now because there are also other issues you have to consider, like not having a stable income as working astrologer, not having a stable schedule and so on, so on. I haven’t decided on that.

CB: Sure. But maybe someday?

LV: Maybe.

CB: Yeah. What about you? Do you have plans to do astrology as like, a profession? Or is it more of like, a side thing?

OAO: It’s a profession.

CB: Okay.

OAO: It’s a whole thing. I made a page on Instagram, and that’s how I just started posting things about just, aesthetic things, and then talking about transits in a more poetic way. And that just bloomed and kicked off, and people like, connected with it for some reason, which is very cool.

CB: Right.

OAO: And through my Instagram, I got my first clients. And now I am practicing astrology as my main thing.

CB: Awesome. What’s your Instagram handle again?

OAO: Ov_Venus.

CB: Okay.

OAO: Yeah.

CB: Cool.

LV: I’ve been offering consultations myself but more informal consultations to friends or friends of friends, but it’s useful for me to learn by doing.

CB: Sure. What type of astrology do you both practice? Or do you gravitate towards specific approaches?

OAO: Yeah. I work mainly with evolutionary astrology. I like working with the clients that have another spiritual practice that they do and don’t devote themselves too much to astrology because it is a very deep practice that takes a lot of time and investment in it. So I get clients that are reiki masters, yoga teachers, tarot readers, you name it. Like, numerologists or other things like that. Clairvoyants. But I use astrology from an evolutionary standpoint from the Jeffrey Wolf Green school, but to help people through a more Jungian, psychoanalytical way, right? And it just comes naturally to people like, in our generation, the Pluto in Scorpios, to work with Pluto, to work with Pluto’s polarity point, to go into the hidden desires we all personally have. So that’s my main jam.

CB: Brilliant. And you both actually are Saturn returning, or you recently had your Saturn returns, right?

LV: Yes. Last year.

CB: In Capricorn?

LV: Yes.

CB: Brilliant.

OAO: Yep.

CB: How is that going?

LV: Survivors.

CB: Survivors.

LV: It was constructive for me. It was in the 4th house. It was related to me buying my first apartment and actually renovating it from the scratch, and there was a lot of work, a lot of malaise, a lot of things that I didn’t foresee coming, a lot of new responsibility, added responsibility. But at the end it was very rewarding. And I finished with all the stress and the work just when Saturn was just left the degree of my natal Saturn.

CB: Brilliant. So it was really close to the exact return when it sort of culminated?

LV: Yes.

CB: Yeah. Great.

OAO: Yeah. Last year was very – I mean, I’m a night chart person, so it was more prolonged experience. It was more desolate. But in a very good way, long-term. It manifested in my 6th house of jobs and service and yeah, some diet and health changes that are not that important, but details, like detail adjustments in things I eat and what I do as a routine. So I’ve been more focusing on relearning to have plans. I spent all my twenties just shooting from the hip.

CB: Right.

OAO: And being very Aries Midheaven – “I’m just gonna not plan, and whatever happens happens, and I’ll just trust my inspiration at the moment to work things out.” That doesn’t work anymore when Saturn entered Capricorn.

CB: Right.

LV: Structure, structure.

CB: Yeah, that’s a really common like, experience of the Saturn return. But it’s one thing to know that in theory, and it’s different to like, actually experience it and live it in person.

LV: Yeah. I forgot to mention I’m a day chart person, so to me, it was hard work, but constructive, rewarding work.

CB: Sure. Whereas you found yours with a night chart to be purposeful and meaningful but a little bit more challenging?

OAO: It was more inner. It was more about me being okay with the “No”s I tell my own self and just accepting the limits that we have naturally have as a human being in our human experience. And because Saturn’s gifts are by showing us what we can’t do right now at the moment, so our ego, inner child Cancer persona needs to relearn the fact that it’s fine if you don’t do this now. I know you want it, but maybe it’s not the right thing for you at the moment. So chill out, go within, and see that the “No” is actually steering you towards a better “Yes.” But, you know, we live in a society that’s very filled with instant gratification, and Saturn does teach us, again, to work with time on a more personal level, to feel time, to feel the density of reality as it is. It’s not like a burden or a malignant on light that Saturn is, it’s just showing you that, “Hey, you’re here to actually feel the heavy weight of time.” And things just don’t move as they usually did, at the rate of speed that you normally want, but it makes you not make stupid decisions.

CB: Sure. Yeah. Had you both attended other astrology conferences or events like this before, or was this your first one?

LV: To me, it was the first one.

CB: It was your first one. What led you, how did you find it?

LV: I graduated the Fidelia courses, and they were the organizers of the event.

CB: Okay.

LV: And I was very interested in attending your workshop.

CB: Oh, right, because you both had listened to the podcast before.

LV: Yes.

OAO: Yeah.

CB: Okay. Yeah, and you mentioned that like, the first day we met, that you’d listened to it.

LV: Yes.

CB: And so you took the certification course here in Romania?

LV: I didn’t take the certification course yet, just the free introduction levels. I will have my certification in September this year.

CB: Okay, great. Cool. That was something we interviewed and talked to them about earlier, just the process of setting that up and building astrology here in Romania from scratch, which is a unique experience to have a tradition literally sort of start out of nowhere in the past 20 or 30 years. Have you guys met other younger astrologers that are in your age generation generally in this area?

LV: I have friends in Bucharest who are very interested in astrology, not necessarily as working as a professional astrologer, but for self-help, self analysis. The status of astrology in Romania, it’s a bit complicated. It’s actually quite popular, but at a very basic, mainstream entertainment level, which is okay from some point, because it makes it more popular, but from another point of view, it does present prejudice against it, because people aren’t aware how mathematical and methodical and how much research there is behind astrology. And actually studying advanced astrology is still somewhat an eccentric thing to do.

CB: Right. It’s not like, a well-respected profession in any —

LV: Yes.

CB: — real sense.

OAO: Yeah, but that’s globally.

CB: Sure, right.

OAO: I think astrology is about to become popular exponentially, and we have to be ready for it. I know memes and social media nonsense will be tiresome and annoying sometimes, but I think it’s a good filter. The system actually has in its own mechanism that people who just use it for giggles and daily nonsense are just gonna stay at that level. But people who want to know deeper, actually do something with it, will naturally gravitate towards knowing, okay, more about this and that.

CB: Right.

OAO: Yeah. And it’s gonna be more prevalent in our day-to-day life, so we need to make sure that, look, this is a valid lifestyle, this is a thing we do. It’s a thing that’s human, it’s a human science, and as long as humankind exists, astrology will do so as well.

LV: Yes.

CB: How did you both get into astrology?

LV: As I was saying, astrology is quite popular in Romania, and I was always attracted to it, but I think it was six years ago when I was very interested in self analysis and finding more about myself and things happening in my life. So I came across an astrology website and my birth chart and started studying every placement I had, and I was so invested in it. I had so many exciting revelations that I couldn’t stop learning astrology ever since.

CB: Okay. Awesome. It really took hold of you and you just decided to really focus on it from that point forward?

LV: Yes. It started at the more personal level.

CB: Right. Cool.

OAO: For me, it was more – for I come from a more pagan background, I’m a practicing animist, so that’s my framework with how I look at nature. So of course, I really looked at solstices and like, equinoxes and work with that in my own life. But something weird happened that I – I work with the Moon, like when the Moon was waxing, I used to think of positive traits that I have and just work with them, and when the Moon was waning, then I just picked on the negative things and just, you know, shedding them off bit by bit. Just mundane stuff, like, “I won’t eat those chips anymore because they make me ugh.” Or “I don’t like how I talked yesterday with that person; I’m not gonna do it anymore.”

CB: Sure.

OAO: But some friends of mine were like, “Oh, the Moon is in Cancer now, so I’m overly emotional.” And I was like, “What is that? Is that thing actually real?”

CB: Right.

OAO: Is that thing actually working? And I just sat a year, just watching the Moon. Seeing that every two-and-a-half days, the Moon was very – it reflected different emotional experience, not just in me, but the world around me. And just after that in 2015, I went into astrology full time.

CB: 2015?

OAO: Yeah.

CB: Okay.

OAO: The Moon is the key.

CB: Sure.

LV: I also noticed without knowing astrology that certain times of the year gave certain events a similar nature in my life. And I found that very interesting. For example, in August, when I have 12th house Sun transit, I’m always lethargic, without energy, and things don’t usually happen. So noticing all this stuff rendered me to believe that there is this connection between our life and the natural cycles.

CB: Right.

OAO: It was weird for me because around July, people usually go to the beach and are like, “Oh great, vacation time, and it’s so nice.”

CB: Right.

OAO: And I’m like, “No way. I wanna just stay in home in my doom cave and just don’t interact.” And I didn’t understand why the beginning of summer made me more inward-focused. And why in the middle of winter, I am guns blazing, high energy.

CB: Sure.

OAO: But then I did discover like, I have Cancer in my 12th house, and from there, things clicked into place.

CB: Right. And then, over the past few years, you both continued to get more and more interested and more focused on it. I mean, one of the things I’m trying to figure out is like, where astrology goes from here if it continues to become more popular, and if it will sort of continue that trajectory, just what that looks like or what astrology might look like in five years or 10 years. Do you guys have any like, sense of that, or any ideas about what you might expect to see happening?

OAO: Yeah, I expect a merging of different practices. I mean, traditional ancient astrology is popular – it’s a niche within a niche, but it’s becoming popular. And channels like yours do help bringing it to a more wider audience and making it human. I think like, we can see a merging of evolutionary astrology, ancient astrology, Uranian astrology, whatever, a lot of different practices. And I think we’ll discover things along the way that we’re not even thinking about at the moment. But some people work with astrology more from a psychological background, some more spiritual, some will use it for divinatory means for predictions, and you know, each branch of astrology works better in those different ways.

CB: Sure.

OAO: We’ll find the hub, the networking part with you know, the Aquarian vibe.

CB: Right.

LV: I am very curious to know how far technology can go in the next years to actually help more advanced astrological calculations and accurate predictions, and —

CB: Right.

LV: — what will be the extent of the astrologer’s intuitive judgment or selection of different methods of prediction and what will be the technological input.

CB: Right. Yeah, you were talking about that, I think, yesterday that just astrologers haven’t fully leveraged technology yet as much as they could and —

LV: Yes.

CB: — maybe we’ll see more of that in the future and that that could play a significant role that’s hard to anticipate in some ways.

LV: Yes.

CB: Yeah.

LV: I’m sure we will.

CB: Yeah, that makes sense.

OAO: I think we’ll see more apps, mobile apps. Astrologers using that platform to get their message out. I mean, Instagram, Twitter, more things like that. I mean, you have an Instagram account or a Twitter account, and you normally attract the people that you resonate with, and you start making communities within communities. And those communities interplays like, you know, brain neurons or whatever. And I think that’s – I don’t know how technology will help with that. I mean, I think it’s gonna bloom so fast and so heavy that it’s beyond what we can imagine.

CB: Sure. I mean, already just the two of you learning astrology over the course of the past several years, you’ve been able to connect with a lot of different like, communities or a lot of different astrologers around the world by studying their works or watching videos or listening to lectures or other things like that, and that’s probably been a unique experience for you in terms of your journey in learning astrology.

LV: It’s very cool that we have so much accessible information on the internet right now. And I think that in a few years, this may help or stop prejudice against astrology and help people understand that there is actually a lot of work and research behind it.

CB: Right.

OAO: I think it’s very grateful to be living in these times because I never would in my craziest days imagine that now I’m actually a practicing astrologer and I have clients from Australia to Chile to Texas to whatever —

CB: Right.

OAO: — and just have a integral connection to people all around the world. And that technology really helped astrology find its true voice, and it’ll help it further.

CB: Sure.

OAO: Yeah.

CB: Yeah. Well, and I was excited just to meet like, you guys, and that you had listened to the podcast and to be able to connect with you coming to a different country and not really knowing what to expect but being able to like, immediately relate to you. So I was really glad to meet you guys. And I’m hoping that maybe you’ll come to if not the conference next year maybe a conference in the future so I can introduce you to some other astrologers in our sort of like, age range generally.

LV: We’d love to do that.

CB: Yeah.

OAO: Yeah. I wanted to see Colorado for a long time, so yeah.

CB: Yeah. I’m thinking like, I’m starting to think because it’s the International Society for Astrological Research is hosting it, and it’s gonna be in Denver next year in September, and I’m starting to think like, maybe there should be an effort to bring more astrologers internationally there, to whatever extent that’s possible.

LV: Because we also want to connect with likeminded people.

CB: Right.

OAO: I mean, it’s very rare to just sit with someone and nerd out about astrology.

CB: Right.

OAO: Normally, you’re that dude at the bar, and I ask him about the Moon and the Sun and whatever, but —

CB: Right.

OAO: — but we hide our passion from the wider society most of the time because it’s not really, the environment isn’t really conducive or ready for it to be that mainstream. It will always be to the side.

LV: Yes.

OAO: It will be very popular, but it will always be to the side.

CB: Sure.

OAO: Yeah. And —

LV: Sorry.

OAO: — and it’s how it should be. You know? It’s part of the system, it’s part of the, it’s built in it.

LV: And I think once you get into studying astrology, you have this system of viewing reality and just talking with the people who have the same system is like speaking the same language, and you don’t get that to experience every day.

CB: Yeah. And that’s what feels so good about it, and yeah, so it was really nice connecting with  you guys here. And I’m glad we met, and I hope to like, continue that at future conferences and meetings in the future. Yeah, so thanks a lot for joining me today.

OAO: It’s ben our pleasure. Thank you very much.

CB: Awesome.

LV: Thank you, Chris.

CB: Thanks.

CB: Hey. Thanks for joining me today.

CARMINA AMZA: Hi Chris. Thanks for having me.

CB: What’s your name?

CA: My name is Carmina Amza.

CB: Brilliant. And you’re an astrologer from Romania?

CA: Yes, I’m an astrologer and I also practice card reading with Cards of Truth, and I also practice Human Design.

CB: Okay. Do you have a website?

CA: My website is Carmina-Amza.com and I have YouTube channel with the same name, Carmina Amza.

CB: Brilliant. Yeah, I actually watch your YouTube channel and I knew about you, and I didn’t know – because your English is so good, I didn’t know you were from Romania, actually. I just thought you were another astrology YouTuber that I watched.

CA: Oh, thank you very much.

CB: So what city are you from?

CA: Well, originally I am from the northeast of Romania, a city called Roman. But I’ve been living in Bucharest since I was 18, 19, since I started university, so.

CB: Okay. And how old are you now?

CA: Now I’m almost 36.

CB: Okay. Do you share your birth details?

CA: Of course. My birthdate is September 10, 1983, 11:45 a.m. In Roman, Romania.

CB: Okay.

CA: Yeah, I’m a Scorpio rising with Moon and Saturn on the Ascendant, and … I don’t know.

CB: Sure.

CA: The Sun is in Virgo.

CB: Okay. That’s your big three. What type of astrology do you practice?

CA: I practice tropical astrology and I use Vedic principles, but I also use what I learn from Western astrology – I use outer planets and things like that. And I’m not blocked or set on one type of astrology; I just want things that get the job done correctly and precisely.

CB: Sure. But you have over the past few years you’ve developed a real passion for studying Indian astrology, or Vedic astrology?

CA: Yes. Since 2016. So maybe three years. After some hiatus from astrology, I’ve found, you know, first Wilhelm who was teaching Vedic principles with tropical zodiac, and I resonated very much with that. So I accumulated a lot of knowledge and I incorporated that in my practice quite successfully, I would say.

CB: Yeah. It seems like you’re one of the major like, Vedic astrologers that uses the tropical zodiac today.

CA: Yeah, there’s  a few of us, I think the number is increasing. I think people initially, they are a bit reluctant because they think, “Oh, this culture is so different from mine, this is like, old stuff – how can it be, you know, valid today?” But there are some principles that are archetypal that you can identify with, like the same problems we had many thousands of years ago, so I would say that’s why it’s becoming more popular, because like, younger people also related to the pop culture and to, you know, their own problems and the problems of their friends, so I guess, yeah.

CB: Yeah. It’s probably an easier entry point into Vedic astrology than some other ways in terms of not having to deal with also changing the zodiac.

CA: Exactly. Yes, because some people are confused because when they hear I, you know, practice Jyotish, they’re like, you know, we are using sidereal, like, my chart changes, but it’s actually not like that because the signs are tropical like in Western astrology, but we also use Nakshatras and other techniques and other things like planetary conditions to find out, you know, the quality of a planet, how a person feels about that planet, so there is a lot of things that improve the quality of the readings, I would say.

CB: Sure. Why did you get interested in astrology, or what made you passionate about it?

CA: Well, my first contact with astrology was in the early ‘90s. Actually I was reading comic books – Mickey Mouse Club – and I saw there was a little leaflet with the Sun signs and the birth stone. But it was just like, tiny leaflet —

CB: Okay.

CA: — but afterwards I found in my own bookshelf, I found a book about Sun signs, Linda Goodman, and then I found a book about compatibility. I was about 10. And from then on, I was self taught for a long time because it just, you know, catches you and then I was writing down in my notebooks my friends’, you know, birthdates and what signs are they, and are they compatible? So things like that. And then, you know, I just read a lot of books, I studied with the local astrology school here, but then I wanted something more, so I found the classes, you know, online classes. I took, I think, Robin Armstrong school of astrology in Canada. I had a scholarship. And then, you know, later on, Ernst – his website is full of information and other, you know, sources of Vedic astrology, so that’s …

CB: Sure. And you have done work as a professional translator and have a great skill with languages. Do you feel like that’s given you greater opportunities in terms of your astrological studies?

CA: Yes, actually. I do speak a lot of languages – five, so far – and I think it is because it’s decoding. Astrology’s also decoding some symbols and translating it, you know, for the person to resonate with, so definitely. And also, identifying when you speak a different language, you identify with that culture a little bit and their way of being. So I think it’s also good for empathizing and understanding different cultures and people and being more maybe accepting.

CB: Sure. What are your observations in terms of astrology in Romania? It seems like when I came here, there’s a lot more younger people that are interested in astrology here than I expected, and that seems to be consistent with like, more young people getting into it in other countries as well. Is that like, a true perception? Do you feel like there’s younger people entering the field here as well at this point in time?

CA: Yeah, definitely. I think there is more younger people entering. Still, Romania as a whole regards astrology as like, something a bit eccentric or something like a bit for glossy magazines, just like the daily horoscope. So usually people don’t really get deep into it, and when you say you’re an astrologer, they look at you a bit suspiciously, like, “Hmm.” But I think there is like a general more openness because of this younger generation, Millennials and after them, that are more like, open to you know, the global culture and learning about different things. So yeah, I would say like, the faces we saw at the festival are still younger people, so I would say yes, they are.

CB: Yeah. It seemed like a really good mixture of different people.

CA: Yeah, but the thing is, like, we didn’t really keep in touch with each other. For instance, I met a girl that I have known like, for like, 10, 15 years, but I’ve known her from seeing her, we went out in the same places, we listen to like, similar music and now we’re like, wow! So we were both interested in astrology, that’s nice, you know.

CB: Right. It seems like one of the issues I run into with younger astrologers is since they talk so much online, they don’t see as much value meeting up in person. And I was wondering if you’ve had that experience or if you, I don’t know, feel differently having attended like, this week, about atending events in person, and if it’s personalized it or made it more interesting for you in any way.

CA: I have to say that I was, I mean, I wanted to come and see, but I was like, a bit reluctant, because of the type of astrology that I practice, and this is like, really weird for most people. So I was like, “Hmm.” But then like, when I came and I saw like, everyone and I got to talk to them and meet them and like, warm up to each other, like, it was really nice. So I would recommend to everyone to come to these things and like you were saying, like, you can initiate your own little group. You don’t have to make something super fancy, just like a informal gathering like, just have a tea or something at the cafe and talk about astrology. So I think, yeah, that’s really important to create, like, little groups, you know, even though you’re not all studying the same style of astrology, I’m sure. You can, you know, interchange, like the Greeks interchange with the Hindus thousands of years ago.

CB: Yeah. And we noticed just talking after my presentation just how many similarities in some ways there are between Hellenistic and Vedic astrology, so that there’s more room for discussion in many ways.

CA: Yes, definitely, there are. Like we were talking exactly. And not just the similarities, but maybe some things that were lost in one of them, and you can fill in the gaps, because you know, (our texts) don’t survive in tact.

CB: Right.

CA: And also translations are maybe not the best ones always. So I think there is room to learn from each other.

CB: Definitely.

CA: And overlap and find the common denominator and see what works, because that’s what we want to do.

CB: Sure. Maybe one of your additional languages that you’ll add to your collection some day is Sanskrit.

CA: Yeah, I was thinking about that, but then I’m like, oh my god, I’m gonna – but probably I will have to do it, because I’m curious, you know, about, you know. You have to have a feeling for the text in any language, any translate, you have to have a feeling, and if you’re an astrologer and you already know the astrology language, and then, you know, Sanskrit, it’s much better than a person who is just an astrologer or just a linguist. So if you have both, I think that would be a good work.

CB: Sure, definitely. And then, let’s see, finally, the last thing I meant to ask was – oh yeah, you mentioned an interesting transit. You had a really good Saturn return story, didn’t you?

CA: Yeah. Actually, when my Saturn returned, like, the exact minute and second, I took my daughter home from the hospital after I gave birth, so you know, Saturn brought me a daughter, and actually my father has the same degree Saturn as me, the same degree and minute, so I was his Saturn return, and my daughter was my Saturn return —

CB: Wow.

CA: — so it’s interesting how it came down, you know, the family tree. And I love to look at like, families together to look at their patterns. Because, for instance, another thing in our family, like, women have Mars in Leo from my mother’s side, and there’s a lot of Sun in Gemini in my family. I have the North Node in Gemini, so I have to learn about what they already are good in. So it’s really interesting how the family dynamics work, how you’re part of like, a weave of something.

CB: Right. How many Mars in Leos are there in your mother’s side?

CA: Like, three – including me, four, like —

CB: So it’s like —

CA: — down the line. Yeah.

CB: — your great grandmother —

CA: Yeah. My grandmother, my mother, me. And my daughter has Mars in Sagittarius, so still a fire sign, but a bit more mature than the third one.

CB: Sure.

CA: Yeah.

CB: Brilliant. All right. Where can – so people can find out more information about you on your YouTube channel, and that’s something you’re really passionate about building. You also do a podcast?

CA: Yes, I started to do a podcast. I think we’re gonna make it a separate channel. We only published one pilot episode. So myself and a friend – also, you know, astrologer, Human Design interested – Denise Mathew, we’re gonna talk about, you know, current topics in pop culture from the prism of the zodiac sciences. So yeah, we’re gonna focus on just talking and not being very visual, because myself included, you know, sometimes you just listen to the videos on your headphones or you don’t really watch because you’re doing other things. So I think a podcast is a good idea, so.

CB: Do you have any other major plans in terms of your work with astrology in the future?

CA: Well, last year, I collaborated like, on a introductory, a book with a colleague of mine, Levi Cosijn, which we’ll also use as a manual for our classes. Some introductory principles into astrology, mainly from Vedic sources, and yeah, I’m also a lot into reading the card reading system that is quite fixed but also uses astrology and numerology. So I’m teaching a lot of classes of astrology, cards, and I got my own card deck. I wanna draw another card deck soon. And I don’t know if I, you know, have – I would like to write some more. Like, some more interesting and useful things abut astrology, so we’ll see.

CB: Oh yeah, you have a card deck. Tell me about that.

CA: Yeah, it’s called the Carmina deck of Cards of Truth, and it uses the Cards of Truth principles. It’s like, very minimalistic and pretty. And you can see also the number correlations, like, it’s quite an easy system, but it’s very accurate for a card reading manual or you know, you can find it on my website, Carmina Amza, you’ll see there section “Card Deck.” So yeah, you’ll see that.

CB: Brilliant. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining me today.

CA: Thank you for having me on. And I really admire your work, and I loved your workshop.

CB: Awesome. Thank you.

Hey, how’s it going today?

ISRAEL AJOSE: Yeah, it’s going great.

CB: What’s your name?

IA: My name’s Israel Ajose. I’m the vice president of the Astrological Lodge of London.

CB: Brilliant. And we are actually at the lodge right now, right?

IA: Yeah, that’s right. This is where we meet every Monday evenings. We normally have two talks from six ‘til seven, and then another one from 8:30 ‘til 9:30, every week. We do take breaks for the holiday period, so like, the Christmas or the Easter, the summer breaks, but other than that, every Monday we’re here at the Astro Lodge, so yeah.

CB: Brilliant. That’s a lot of astrology. That’s four times a month.

IA: Yeah, it keeps us very busy. It can be a bit, if you want to say, demanding —

CB: Sure.

IA: — but it’s definitely worth it, I mean, for those people who are really into astrology. You know, there’s been people here they’ve been coming here for years, even before pretty much I was born.

CB: Right.

IA: I’m in my 40s, and people sort of like say, “I’ve been coming to the lodge since the ‘60s and ‘70s,” I’m like, “Whoa.”

CB: Right.

IA: I wasn’t even born then!

CB: Yeah yeah.

IA: But yeah, it’s been going great. It’s, you know, very successful, you know? And yeah, got a good attendance, good membership, so yeah.

CB: And the lodge was founded in 1915, right?

IA: That’s correct, that’s correct – by Alan Leo.

CB: Okay.

IA: The great Alan Leo. Him and his wife Bessie Leo were very much – because Bessie Leo also was very much – although, I suppose with all couples, one couple probably will take more credit than the other, but —

CB: Sure.

IA: — Bessie Leo was also, if you want to say, part of the engine. You know, maybe she was a bit more behind the scenes in a sense, but she was definitely also part of it also as well. She helps obviously, you know, set it up. She would obviously, she wrote particular articles for magazines and stuff. She even wrote a few books herself, also, as well. So she was very much involved. But we could say Alan Leo was definitely the forerunner, you know, behind it, it was set up by him. 2015 we celebrated our centenary —

CB: Oh wow.

IA: — which was a hundred years, which was very great —

CB: Brilliant.

IA: — it was great to be a part of that, to feel that wow, you know, something that was set up. And if my mind serves me correctly, I’m not too sure, I’m still doing some research on it, but I’m still trying to find I believe this may – I believe definitely in the UK, if not Europe, it’s probably one of the oldest if not the oldest astrological organization going.

CB: Yeah, it has to be like, the oldest continuous – it’s gotta be one of the oldest in the world.

IA: In the world, yeah. I believe so, yeah.

CB: So yeah, so you’re part of like, a great lineage. How long – let’s talk about you a little bit – how long have you been studying astrology?

IA: So I got into it, in terms of seriousness, I got into it in about 2004, 2005, that’s when I really started to really take it serious. Like, you know, this is me.

CB: Sure.

IA: I should be doing this. Prior to that, my mother passed in 1999, and as – not all of us, but for a lot of people who kind of get into sort of like, astrology or any other, sometimes maybe they go through a particular kind of chaotic moment. And for me, it was that – I was searching for something, I suppose.

CB: Sure.

IA: You know? Because it kind of hit me hard, and my career was, in terms of what I was doing before, because I was actually a professional boxer.

CB: Okay.

IA: So it started to kind of get bad, so I was looking for answers, I suppose. And as they say, you know, astrology found me, or I found it.

CB: Right.

IA: And the rest was history. So I was still kind of like a little bit kind of, you know, didn’t quite know what to do with it in the first couple of, you know, especially in the early 2000s, you know. It was kind of – but then 2003, 2004, I recall, I went on the internet. It was my birthday. And I thought, “I’m gonna treat myself.” And I just went on the internet and I thought, let me look up, you know, astrology or tarot courses or something, something was just pulling me. And I looked up and then Liz Greene was holding a tarot, you know, workshop —

CB: Wow.

IA: — for the weekend.

CB: Okay.

IA: Saturday and Sunday. And I thought, right, that’s me. I’m gonna, you know, so I booked it, and I went down there. And that was my first time meeting Liz Greene —

CB: Wow.

IA: — and Juliet Sharman. And it kind of just all spiraled from there, and obviously, Liz Greene was, you know, we know who she is in terms of in the astrological community and the astrological world, who she is. And it just kind of just grew from there. I was just blown away by this woman who was just breaking down the tarot and the astrological symbolisms in it also as well, and I was like, oh, okay, all right, so I need to do the course. So then the following year, I jumped on the course and then I did the course, I did the beginner’s and then I did the diploma. The diploma was actually three years, but I did it in two, that’s how enthusiastic I was about it.

CB: Nice.

IA: So I did it in two. I graduated, got my certificate, and then the rest. When I was studying with Liz, she always taught me that never let yourself learn as many languages as you can. And she didn’t mean languages as in, I mean, oh of course, if it was, you know, literal languages, Spanish, Italian, whatever – that’s fine. But learn as much as you can from different schools, from different schools of thought, and never limit yourself to one. So I’ve always kind of adopted that kind of philosophy, you know. So I also did Vedic astrology also as well and you know, but I mean, psychological astrology you could say was my real birth into astrology. It was what some people may call modern astrology.

CB: Sure.

IA: But I took it all everywhere I went I tried to join as many groups as possible and try to learn from different people, you know, bought different types of astrology books, whether it was traditional astrology, you know, psychological astrology, medieval astrology, and I was just try to get as much info, knowledge, as I can, and that’s what got me to the lodge. So I joined the lodge in 2007, 2008, is when I came here, and I came on the committee after about a year, so 2009 –  2008, 2009 – I came on the committee, and then yeah, up until about two, three years ago, I became the vice president. Prior to becoming the vice president, I was the secretary —

CB: Okay.

IA: — for about three, four years. So I’ve worked my way up, you could say.

CB: Yeah.

IA: So yeah. It’s been good, it’s been great, it’s been a wonderful journey, you know, meeting different people, through its various conferences. I was at UAC last year and that’s when I first met yourself, you know, that was, you know, it was great stuff seeing you.

CB: Yeah. Well, it’s always great meeting you, and you seem like a great person to be running an organization like this that – like, I wish I had gone to my first astrology meeting and met somebody like you because you’re such a cool guy —

IA: Oh, thank you.

CB: — you’re always so like, enthusiastic about what you’re doing.

IA: Thank you.

CB: Yeah.

IA: Because I was actually around the weekend, because you came, you did a talk over here, I think that was 2008 —

CB: Yeah.

IA: — or 2007, 2008. I think Claire Chandler was the president at the time. And you did a talk on Hellenistic astrology, you know, at the time, so I think yeah, there’s history there, of course.

CB: Right.

IA: But yeah, no, it’s been good. It’s been a good journey. So I’m just coming here and meeting so many different people. Again, we have different speakers every week, many of them I’m still in contact with, you know, we’ve become very good friends and we, you know, exchange details and we email each other and we, you know, share information and data and things like that. It’s been quite, it’s been wonderful, it’s been great.

CB: What’s that like, having access to so many different astrologers and so many types of astrology, like being in a place like London, it seems like there’s a lot of options available for studying astrology, right?

IA: Yeah, certainly, so yeah, definitely. And we’ve got quite a few schools in London, you know. I mean, this is not a school per se, although we do offer a beginner’s class every Monday for about an hour.

CB: Okay.

IA: Because we are registered charity, so we’re obliged to give something, you know, as a like, charitable due, so we offer the free classes.

CB: Nice. So people can just show up and do a free class every Monday?

IA: Yeah.

CB: Wow.

IA: Yeah, no change. I mean, it’s only for an hour. You know how astrology is, it’s like – you know, because there’s been times when I’ve taken the beginner’s class quite a number of times, and I could see that they want more, you know —

CB: Sure.

IA: — because it’s that thirst for knowledge. But we do have some great schools in London. We’ve got the LSA, run by Frank Clifford, which was also Sue Tompkins was also a part of that body (of school) as well. We’ve got the Faculty of Astrological Studies also as well. I believe Carole Taylor is the president. So you know, and the Faculty of Astrological Studies is – I think that’s like the, if you want to say, the cornerstone, the foundation of astrological schools in London.

CB: Right.

IA: I believe Rob Hand is a patron of there. Liz Greene also did her diploma there also as well. All the top astrologers – Sue Tompkins, Kim Farnell, our current president also as well, you know, so also Julia Parker, I believe, also as well. Of course she got her diploma from there. So yeah, so everybody of knows of the Faculty of Astrological Studies. They’re like, the real cornerstone in terms of astrological schools in London.

CB: Right.

IA: And then there was the CPA with Liz Greene. That was also in London as well, not too far from here, and Regent’s College, but that came to an end. They still do online —

CB: Oh, is that MISPA?

IA: Huh?

CB: Is that MISPA, the online version? Or there’s a version called MISPA that’s like, a spin-off or connected with CPA?

IA: Yeah, yes, that’s right. So that’s run by John Green, who was one of our teachers at the CPA. So he then runs, it was sort of like a beginner’s but now it’s got intermediate level and it’s got like, advanced levels also as well. But they still have all the teachers, your Darby Costellos, your Clare Martins, your Lynn Bells, you know, they still do classes online, and Liz Greene also as well still does online workshops and stuff every so often. So it’s still kind of running, but it’s just taken a different turn.

CB: Sure.

IA: Yeah.

CB: And then is the Mayo school, is that another London one?

IA: That’s another – but that’s online —

CB: Online, okay.

IA: — also as well, that’s online as well.

CB: Got it.

IA: So yeah, that’s run by Wendy Stacey, she’s the president, so she’s in charge of that. And Wendy Stacey also used to be a teacher here; she used to teach the beginner’s class here at the Astrological Lodge of London also as well.

CB: Okay.

IA: So yeah, so that’s online, so that’s available for people. Again, so it’s like a correspondence course also as well. So but yeah, that’s very active; it’s going strong. It’s ran for many years, so yeah.

CB: And then aside from that, we were talking about just before we started bookstore – is there some amazing astrology bookstores in London, right?

IA: Yeah. So we’ve got the Astro Shop. I believe that’s perhaps maybe the most popular one.

CB: Right.

IA: Obviously the main —

CB: The Astrology Shop?

IA: — astrology shop, it’s like, you know, it’s there. So yeah, they’re been active for many many years. But there are other bookshops also around that do also, you know, they may be more kind of esoteric approach, or you know, other kind of spiritual dimensions approach. But they will have astrological books sold. There’s Watkins. Watkins is a very big bookshop and they’ve got a nice astrological selection there. We’ve got Atlantis, run by Geraldine, a great woman. It’s more of an occult shop, but she does have astrological section there. It may not necessarily be a big one. And then we’ve got Treadwell’s also as well – same thing again, it’s more kind of esoteric, you know, pagan magic kind of approach bookshop, but again, they’re not sort of like, alienating astrology because astrology is a part of that world, you know, one could say.

CB: Right.

IA: So yeah, they’re very active also as well. There’s Mysteries, a bookshop called Mysteries also as well, and they also have quite a, you know, decent astrological department as well. I think maybe tarot’s probably their main sort of like focus.

CB: Okay.

IA: But they do have a astrology section also as well, and they offer like, astrological readings too there if people are looking for readings, to have readings, also as well. So there’s quite a number of bookshops within the area.

CB: Yeah.

IA: That, you know, sell astrological books. But the Astrology Shop is probably the most popular one.

CB: Okay. And what about yourself? You also teach classes aside from or outside of the Lodge, right?

IA: Yeah. So I teach like, three, four times a week.

CB: Wow.

IA: Yeah. Two are online, and two of them are physical classes.

CB: Okay.

IA: And so I’m currently just doing a beginner’s, and then I’ve got sort of like an intermediate, advanced level, so they’ve been studying with me for about two, three years now. And that’s going very well; it’s, you know, quite a big group; there’s like, about 12, 13 of them in total. There’s another like, extra two, three who kind of just come in and out depending on the subject that I’m teaching, so they’ll, you know. I’ll kind of have a program every term, so I’ll list every week what it is, what the talk’s gonna be about, so they’ll attend whichever one they feel that they wanna, you know, engage in. And then I’ve got a beginner’s class and then I’ve got two online also as well. One’s sort of like, beginner’s intermediate level and one’s beginner’s level —

CB: Okay.

IA: — also as well. So that’s keeping me busy.

CB: Yeah.

IA: I enjoy teaching. I enjoy teaching actually more – it’s quite interesting, when I first got into astrology, or when I first started sort of like, really taking it serious as doing it maybe as a profession, I enjoyed doing readings and consultations for people. It’s not that I don’t like doing that; I still like doing that and I still do. But I do prefer the teaching aspect of it more than I do the consultations.

CB: Sure.

IA: But I still enjoy doing consultations and seeing clients; it gives me great pleasure so that I can, you know, help them all, you know, be of some kind of aid or you know, offer some advice to them. So that’s good. But I do like teaching. I like speaking; I like teaching. You know, it gives me great pleasure, so yeah.

CB: Yeah, you’re a really like, enthusiastic and like, passionate teacher, and that really makes a difference when you’re a student, especially when you’re learning a really technical subject.

IA: Yeah. Definitely. And there are some subjects sometimes that I feel like, oh that’s real technical, and we have to go over it quite a few times, you know, look at the degrees, you know, that kind of thing, so there are some technicals that’s a bit like, a bit laborious.

CB: Yeah.

IA: You know, so sometimes I don’t like – and I understand, because a lot of times, especially for my beginner’s class, you know, and I supposed it’s the same for all of us like when we come to astrology sometimes we just think, oh, it’s about the 12 zodiac signs, we can learn that easy, 12 planets, okay, we can learn that, you know. Then you find out there’s much more. I suppose like everybody else, just when I thought I’d got to a layer that, “Oh, I’ve got it!”

CB: Right.

IA: You know, something came along and said, “No.” It goes much deeper; it’s much bigger, much vaster than that. There are just so many levels to astrology.

CB: Yeah.

IA: So yeah. It reminds me of when I read a book by Marc Edmund Jones. In one of his books, he stated that, “I’ve been studying astrology for 50 years, and I’m still scratching the surface.”

CB: Right.

IA: And I remember reading that and thinking, oh god.

CB: Right.

IA: How long have I been in it? 10 years? Okay, right.

CB: Right.

IA: I’ve got about 40 years to go!

CB: Yeah. What have I got myself into?

IA: Yeah, exactly! Exactly. But I do love it. I feel it’s like, it’s me, you know.

CB: Sure.

IA: I can’t – I mean, you never know, but as far as I’m concerned, I can’t see myself leaving astrology. You know, it’s – I just really love it.

CB: Yeah.

IA: It’s great.

CB: If there’s anything, like, if you could go back in time and tell your old self, give yourself a piece of advice when you first started learning astrology that would’ve helped you out, is there anything you could say to like, the new student of astrology that might be helpful?

IA: Yeah, I mean, grab it while you can. My father always used to say, you know, strike the iron while it’s hot, you know. Say hey when the sun shines, things like that. Because like I said, I mean, I got into astrology in the early 2000s, like 2003, 2004, that’s when I really started taking it serious. But astrology in a sense was kind of knocking on my door from the late 1990s, especially after my mom died in ‘99, it was really. But I was still kind of seeing it – not that I didn’t believe in it, but I still thought it was just all just, “I’m a Libra, so yeah, that makes me charming,” you know, that kind of – it was real surface stuff —

CB: Right.

IA: — you know, it wasn’t, I wasn’t taking it seriously. So I would definitely say to new students who are coming into it, it’s a wonderful art, it’s a wonderful science, I classify it as an art and a science. And it’s extremely helpful. It’s made me definitely a better person. And I’m for anything that makes anybody a better person.

CB: How has it made you a better person?

IA: Well, it’s made me more mature, it’s made me understand people more. It’s made me more accepting of people. It’s made me actually more compassionate, whereas maybe I may see something and just throw straight judgments at it without understanding, astrology’s allowed me to, you know, be able to maybe look at a chart or see somebody’s chart and like, “Ah, now I understand it!” You know, just like many of us when we get into astrology, I did the charts of the people in my family. And you know, everything started to – right, okay, I understand why my sister’s like that. Oh, dad, okay, mom.

CB: Right. Yeah.

IA: Everything starts – I get it now, I get who I am, who I am and how I fit into the grand scheme of things, into this family, into this tribe and into this culture and to this nation, you know. So I’m getting to understand it now. So it makes me more understanding. It makes me – although I still question things, I don’t think that’s ever gonna change. I’m always gonna question things, and I think we should. I question things even in astrology; I don’t just take things. But, you know, does it work? Does it make sense? And most importantly, can I find meaning in it?

CB: Right.

IA: You know? And it’s something that definitely provides meaning for me. It really, really makes sense to me. And rewinding my, if you wanna say, whether it’s transits or progressions or profections, solar arc, when I rewind back, when I look back on my life from as young as I can remember and start looking at the transits, the profections, the progressions, everything that was going on, I start, “Ah, right!” I see it. Oh, Saturn was there – that’s what that – oh, I got in trouble with the law – Saturn was, you know —

CB: Right.

IA: — so everything’s like, I get it now! So it’s really, it makes one’s life more fulfilled. You know, I really get to understand the past now; I understand perhaps maybe mistakes that I may have made. And not to say that that was bad; that’s a part of my life. It’s part of what has made me. But to understand that, I understand perhaps what was going on as to why I made those mistakes. And if I’m having similar transits or going through similar experiences now, I’m much more mature, much more, you know, I can hopefully – I feel I’m much more mature to be able to handle those particular maybe difficult situations much more better than I have done when I was younger.

CB: Sure.

IA: So for students or people who are coming into astrology, you know, new people, I definitely encourage, you know, take it with both hands. It’s a wonderful opportunity. It’s more to it because then – when I first came into astrology, I kind of got sucked into the, “Oh, predict my future, predict my future!” That kind of thing.

CB: Right.

IA: And again, I was shown that no, there’s more to it than just predictions. You know, there’s a nature here, there’s characteristics here, there’s an unfoldment here of, if you want to say, the soul or the human himself. So it’s really vast. It’s really allowed me to really understand the world in a better, you know, as a better place —

CB: Right.

IA: — to be. Yeah.

CB: Brilliant. Where can people find out more information about you? Do you have a website?

IA: I don’t have a website. I am on Twitter.

CB: Okay.

IA: I’m on Instagram. I’m easy to find. AstrologyOfTheSoul —

CB: Okay.

IA: — on Twitter, or on Instagram, AstrologyOfTheSoul. You can also find me on Facebook as well – Israel Ajose. Israel’s spelled like the country; Ajose’s A-J-O-S-E. So you can always find me there also as well. And I’m quite easily accessible. If you wanna see me in person, you could always come down here at the Lodge, Astrological Lodge of London, so that’s at 50 Gloucester Place. The post code is W18EA, I believe. So 50 Gloucester Place at London. So yeah, you’re more than welcome; we have meetings here, like I said, every Monday. You can also go on our site as well – AstrologicalLodgeOfLondon.co.uk, so yeah.

CB: Brilliant. And you meet here every Monday night, and the beginner’s class starts at when?

IA: Soo the beginner’s class starts at six p.m. —

CB: Okay.

IA: — ‘til seven, and then we have the main lecture, the main speaker, at seven. So the main speaker speaks from seven ‘til eight.

CB: Okay.

IA: Then we have a break for, you know, have drinks and refreshments, it’s from eight until 8:30, and then the second talk will be from 8:30 and finish until 9:30. I mean, sometimes we go over like, five, 10 minutes. It happens.

CB: Sure.

IA: But generally that’s the framework which we work under. It’s a cool place. You can share ideas, you know, learn more about yourself and stuff. There’s so much here, and there’s so much different kind of astrologers as well. As you know, astrology’s very diverse, so you have some people who are specializing maybe in financial astrology. Some people in traditional astrology. Some people, horary astrology. Some people, psychological astrology. So you have all these different kind of people who, you know, they specialize in their own, you know, section of astrology also as well. And you meet, you know, again, the Astro Lodge is a place where we all meet, you know, we can all kind of share ideas.

CB: Right.

IA: You know, so it’s wonderful. Wonderful place.

CB: Brilliant. Well, thank you so much for joining me today.

IA: No, thank you, thank you for having me, Chris.