The Astrology Podcast
Transcript of Episode 118, titled:
Astrology Forecast and Election for August 2017
With Chris Brennan and guests Austin Coppock and Kelly Surtees
Episode originally released on July 31, 2017
—
Note: This is a transcript of a spoken word podcast. If possible, we encourage you to listen to the audio or video version, since they include inflections that may not translate well when written out. Our transcripts are created by human transcribers, and the text may contain errors and differences from the spoken audio. If you find any errors then please send them to us by email: theastrologypodcast@gmail.com
—
Transcribed by Andrea Johnson
Transcription released February 13th, 2025
Copyright © 2025 TheAstrologyPodcast.com
—
CHRIS BRENNAN: Thanks everyone for joining us today. This is the August forecast episode for The Astrology Podcast. This is actually Episode 118 of The Astrology Podcast, which you can listen to and find out more information about at theastrologypodcast.com. Today we’re livestreaming the episode to Facebook through my page on Facebook. So just do a search for my name, ‘Chris Brennan’, if you’re listening to this, and you’ll be able to see the livestream and all of the comments that went along with this episode. If you feel like it, please share the link to the livestream to let more people know that we’re doing it today, since it’s sort of something new that we’re testing out and we’re gonna see how it works. So joining me today is Austin Coppock and Kelly Surtees. How’s it going, guys?
AUSTIN COPPOCK: Hey.
KELLY SURTEES: Hey.
AC: Pretty good.
KS: Going very well.
CB: Awesome. And here’s the link for both of you to the livestream, if you want to share it on your pages.
KS: Oh, excellent. I was just trying to find that.
AC: Shared.
CB: All right, so this is our second experiment with doing a livestream on Facebook in order to talk about the monthly forecast for August of 2017. And we’ve been building up to—it feels like a year now—but we’ve finally reached the month of the eclipse, right?
KS: Yes, finally.
CB: Finally.
AC: Yeah, it’s the ‘must-see TV’ of this year’s astrology.
CB: Right. This is like the astrologer’s ‘Super Bowl’, the eclipse in August. So we’ll talk a little bit about that. We will catch up a little bit on what you guys have been up to over the past month. Also, I got some book giveaways. There’s a couple of new books that I was gonna give away to patrons of the show today who are supporters of The Astrology Podcast. So let’s go ahead and jump into things. So, first off, what have you guys been up to? Or what do you guys have coming up? Do you have any classes or other things that you’re getting ready to do?
KS: Well, as Austin said, it’s ‘must-see TV’ month. I will be in San Diego in August—the weekend before the eclipse—teaching through the San Diego Astrology Society. And then my next online class—which is on chart interpretation and aspects—starts on the 21st of August. Just paint my wall calendar. What about you, Austin?
AC: Uh, let’s see. Now that I think about it, I guess I’m on the Holes to Heaven’s podcast talking about the eclipses tomorrow. I just checked my calendar, and I guess I’m doing that tomorrow. I am teaching a class for Adam Elenbaas—on Monday, the 31st of July—about starting to integrate fixed stars into your astrology. And so, it’s some ways of thinking about fixed stars, and then we’re just gonna pick a couple whose effects are very dramatic, which will change the way you see 26° of Taurus, right? You know what I’m talking about.
KS: As soon as you say ‘dramatic, fixed star’, as you know, there is always one that comes to mind.
AC: Indeed, indeed. And let’s see, later in August, I’ll be teaching a four-week module dealing with the entire layer cake of traditional dignity. So we’ll go beyond rulerships and exaltation, look at triplicity, bounds, decans, etc., etc. And not only will I lay out that structure, but try to make it usable rather than simply ‘cathedral-esque’. Because it’s one thing to have memorized those things, it’s another thing to be able to apply it in your work. Oh, and I’m the guest for the Association for Young Astrologers August talk. We’re gonna talk about eclipses, and I specifically requested that that discussion be hosted in between the eclipses. So I kinda wanted everybody to already be in the middle of it. There’s a lot of ‘pre-game’ eclipse stuff, like we’re doing here, and like I’m gonna do—and probably all of y’all are gonna do in other ways—but I also wanted to take the opportunity to have a discussion once we’re in it, in between those two luminations. And so, that’s in the middle of August. I don’t remember the date. But just check the Association for Young Astrologers page. I’m sure they’ll be promoting it. And that is free, and that’s more of a back-and-forth than it is a ‘me’ monologuing.
CB: Yeah, that’s a really great program and format that they got going there. So that’s at youngastrologers.org?
AC: Mm-hmm. And they’re very active on Facebook. So if you’re on Facebook, you can follow the page. And there are a lot of great updates they’ve been putting up. And it’ll be fun for me because I—like yourself, Chris—was the president for the Association for Young Astrologers.
CB: Who wasn’t the president of the Association for Young Astrologers at this point?
AC: Yeah, right.
KS: Oh, listen to the two of you.
AC: No, but we did an official hand-off—God, it’s closer to a year-and-six-months at this point—and Leigh has been doing an amazing job. And so, it’ll be fun to kind of come back to the next incarnation of the AYA.
CB: Sure, definitely.
AC: It should be fun for everybody else, too, but I have a special relationship with it.
CB: Yeah, definitely. And, Kelly, you actually recently participated in a webinar on the eclipse, didn’t you?
KS: I did, yes, with Demetra George and Lynn Bell. So we recorded that through Astrology University last weekend. So that was amazing just to be able to be with those women who obviously know so much about astrology in general. But it was wonderful. They both had really interesting ideas, and I was able to contribute a bit there as well. So that was fascinating actually. Cuz you think you have your own perspective and your own research and your own ideas, but of course being able to collaborate and get other people’s input or other people’s take is exceptional. So I’m excited for us three to talk today about the eclipse, which I’m sure will be a dominant theme in our podcast.
CB: Awesome, okay. And let’s see, other news to get out of the way. In terms of myself, I’ve been working on producing the podcast—and this is the final episode of July—and also starting to crank out some videos on my new YouTube channel, which is at youtube.com/theastrologyschool. And I just released one today titled, “Top 10 Astrology Books for Beginners.” So I’m actually excited about that, and I’m trying to learn some new video techniques in terms of putting those together and making good quality productions. So people should check it out and let me know what you think. And then, finally, we’re almost at the end of the month. So the promo code, or the discount, the 10% discount on my online course on Hellenistic astrology that I mentioned last month is over at the end of this month. So if you want to take advantage of that, you can get a 10% discount by using the promo code ‘ASTROLOGYPODCAST’. So just one word with no space. Just ‘ASTROLOGYPODCAST’, on my website, at theastrologyschool.com to get a 10% discount on the Hellenistic course. And yeah, we’re getting ready to do a webinar on Saturday where we’re actually gonna read through the text of Vettius Valens and some specific techniques that he used from book two of The Anthology, so I’m actually really excited about that. Any other news and announcements to get out of the way before we get started? Oh, right, we had a book giveaway. So every month, we give away two books to patrons of The Astrology Podcast who support the show through the $5 and $10 tiers. And the two books that I wanted to highlight this month, one is a book on Indian astrology titled, Light on Life: An Introduction to the Astrology of India. And this is actually really one of my favorite intro to Vedic astrology books, and that’s why I wanted to recommend it, since I’ve had a few Vedic astrologers on the show over the past couple of months, and people have asked me what’s a good, comprehensive, intro to Vedic astrology book. And I think this is one of the ones that’s on many people’s lists. Have you guys read this one?
AC: Yep, that’s one of my favorite intro books to Vedic astrology, too.
KS: I haven’t read it, but I’m gonna check it out, actually.
CB: It’s super-comprehensive, while being relatively concise. It’s like 400 pages, but it’s packed with a lot of information. So I’m gonna give that away to one lucky winner of the drawing on Patreon. The second book I wanted to give away, I just found recently. It’s titled, In the Shadow of the Moon: The Science, Magic, and Mystery of Solar Eclipses by Anthony Aveni. So Anthony Aveni is actually an academic, he’s not an astrologer. But he focuses on the history of science, and he’s done some amazing work on the history of astronomy, and wrote a great book a few years ago about the 2012 phenomenon. Like actually presenting the evidence of what survives from Mesopotamian—or Mesoamerican astrology and giving a very sober analysis of the whole ‘2012’ thing before it occurred. So that was a great book, and I’m excited about this one just because it focuses on the history and the astronomy and the astrology of eclipses. So I’ll give away a copy of that later today to one lucky patron of the show. And the only other thing I wanted to mention in terms of books is, Austin, you recommended another book on Vedic astrology to me recently that I actually picked up.
AC: Oh, you got it.
CB: Yeah, I actually got the two-volume set, and it’s actually really good. It was a great recommendation. So I want to make a pitch for it here. It’s titled, The Science of Light by Freedom Tobias Cole, and it’s like this two-volume set; the subtitle is The Foundations of Vedic Astrology. So, Austin, you’ve actually read it. But how did you come across this book?
AC: I was introduced to Freedom by a mutual friend four years ago. So I had spoken at the Esoteric Book Conference, and then the year after, Freedom spoke at the Esoteric Book Conference. And the organizer was like, “Hey, you guys should talk. You both know a lot about astrology.” And we did a little bit then, and we sort of caught up recently. And I’ve also—in a strangely coincidental manner—been really into Vedic astrology the last two months, and so your podcasts have been perfectly-timed. And so, I’ve just been digging through Freedom’s work. I know he’s finishing his PhD in Sanskrit right now, which means he’s very busy. But I think he would make an awesome guest on the podcast, if he’s interested and you’re interested.
CB: Yeah, I’m definitely interested in having him on sometime. One of the things I like that he did is he broke it up into two volumes, so it’s like volume one and volume two. That’s, honestly, what I should have done with my Hellenistic book, and what many wise people recommended over the years, that I should break it up into two volumes. Instead, I made it one, huge, 700-page book. But I actually like the layout of what he did here, and I see the ‘ghost’ of a two-volume set I could have written at some point, but coming from the Vedic perspective.
AC: You can always do another edition of your book, right?
CB: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we’ll see what happens.
AC: These things have been done, I’m just saying. Ben Dykes released all of Bonatti as a 13-inch-thick, single volume and then cut it up into the books. Anyway, he cut it up later. These things are possible.
CB: That and 20 other books. Because Ben is literally a machine, like the Terminator, who’s been sent back in time in order to translate all of the ancient astrological texts that survive in our time to, I don’t know, either save humanity or just stop astrologers from being able to read any other books for the next foreseeable future, I think.
AC: Right.
CB: Right.
AC: Can I make one quick comment about that?
CB: Yeah, yeah.
AC: Okay, I just want to say it’s going to take us a while to integrate everything that’s now available to us. We’ve learned so much about the past in the last 20 years, but as you’ve pointed out, there’s so much more. You know, it’s sort of like, I don’t know, we have 30,000 tons of Miracle-Gro to sprinkle on astrology, and that is both difficult, but it’s very exciting for where we’re gonna be in 10 or 20 years.
CB: Yeah, I mean, I was thinking about that recently, cuz there are so many new books that came out. And I’m about to interview Ben next month about his new translation of Theophilus, so he’s got another translation out. And there’s a sort of question at this point, which is, how do you integrate and reconcile all of these different traditions? Western tradition, in and of itself, has so much, but then you have the Vedic tradition and so much going on there. I’m starting to see some great scholarship. And I recently picked up a book on Chinese astrology, and it turned out that Dorotheus and some Western texts were actually transmitted to China and translated into Chinese there, and made it as far as possibly Japan, so there’s that. And then there’s also this question we’ve been dealing with this month on the podcast, which is, how do you reconcile really different approaches? You know, previously, we did an episode on the tropical and sidereal zodiac issue, and it was with Kenneth Miller and Nick Dagan Best, and it was more about reconciling those different approaches, or seeing them as different, but maybe useful in their own right. Whereas this month, I’ve talked to two specialists who were more like trying to find what the correct approach is and had arguments that they made for one approach or another and why that works best for them and why it makes the most sense to them. So it sort of raised this question now, which is, how do you know when to attempt to reconcile or see things as two different approaches that are still equally valid versus when do you decide that one approach actually does work better or is more objectively-valid in some sense for you? Where do you guys come down on that? I mean, what do you think about that, Kelly? Or how have you dealt with that in your practice?
KS: Look, it’s a great question, I think, and it is something that we’re all gonna be dealing with more and more. The biggest thing for me that I can relate to personally is the shift from the Placidus/quadrant-based house system to the whole signs system. And it reminds me of that quote of ‘when you know better, you do better’. Not that one is wrong or—‘better’ might not be the right word in the context of astrology. But I think for me, personally, as my own philosophy of astrology evolves, and my understanding of the philosophies behind astrology evolve, that’s prompting shifts or adjustments in practice based on what seems to really resonate with the heart of the technique. So it’s a little abstract, and it is very personal, because of course we all resonate with different pieces of the philosophy individually. But I think it’s sort of making it congruent so that the technique you’re practicing represents the context or the perspective of the two holes of the astrology that you’re really connected to.
CB: Sure.
AC: Mm-hmm.
CB: What do you think, Austin?
KS: How do you guys handle that?
AC: So obviously, on a case-by-case basis, there are some parallels between whole sign versus quadrant-style division. House-wise, there’s some parallels between that debate or issue and the zodiac issue, but there are also ways that those are different questions. I would say that I’m trying not to take a blanket approach, but to try to approach each issue on its own. And what’s been particularly useful for me lately is to try to understand, what are we doing when we create a sidereal zodiac? And so, what might that be good for? And that’s of course informed by its internal logic, as well as what people have used it for. What is a tropical zodiac? Where does that come from? What might that be good for, etc., etc.? It’s like trying to say, okay, when you look at the sky and time, it doesn’t just give you one calendar. It depends on which things you’re watching relative to each other. And so, what does the decision to do time this way mean? What is it anchored to in the world? And then what does that clock time? Which is a question that astrologers are always asking about everything. So I would say that’s kind of where I’m at with it right now.
CB: Yeah. I guess the thing that I’ve been noticing in some of the discussions that’s difficult is that astrologers are torn between two different impulses. One of them is as the world becomes more interconnected and as cultures become more interconnected, there’s this impulse to see astrology as an extension of culture, and therefore, to want to embrace all the different approaches as all being equally-valid. Different languages is the analogy that’s often made. And so, in that sense, astrologers often want to say all approaches work or all approaches are valid, but they’re just different frames of reference or different reference systems, or like different languages, and you can say that one language is wrong and another is right, even if some languages might be more effective in doing certain things or might more commonly be used for certain things. But then there’s this other impulse, which is using astrology as—maybe ‘science’ isn’t the correct word—but using astrology as a tool in order to accomplish certain things or in order to figure out certain information, either about the present or the past or the future. Astrologers naturally will gradually develop certain techniques that they think are more effective or work better for them in their own practice, and as a result of that, they’re making a judgment call, or they are making distinctions about what works better for them or what they think is more objectively true in some sense, or subjectively true. And so, balancing those two impulses in this new astrology world that we’re finding ourselves in—in the early 21st century, where there’s so many different approaches—it seems like that’s gonna be one of the main challenges for astrologers going forward over the next few decades, knowing when to go one way or another or figuring out how to balance those two impulses.
AC: Mm-hmm.
KS: Yes.
CB: Yeah, so luckily for us, we all happen to find ourselves on the same page and largely use the same approach. So I think that’s one of the things that makes things a little bit easier in terms of us doing this podcast and the perspective that we’re sharing with people for these forecast episodes. But it’s an interesting thing to think about, and I’d love to hear some comments from people, if they feel like sharing what their experience is with that and how they reconcile those two different approaches or issues. So why don’t we jump into the forecast episode, now that we’re a few minutes into this, and we got our introductory remarks out of the way. Should we go by the top, major things happening in August, or should we just do it chronologically from the first week of August?
KS: I’m open either way. I’m pretty flexible. Austin, do you have a strong preference?
AC: No. Last month, I was like, “I’m getting downloads here,” and I needed to just get it out. I would say there are too many things going on when I look at August, and it has yet to coalesce into one image for me that I could share. What I was gonna ask earlier is, Kelly, what was the most interesting or what comes to mind out of what arose from your trilogue with Demetra and Lynn? I wonder if there’s any particular gems you think might be a nice conversation-starter, because this conversation is gonna end up being about eclipses.
KS: Correct.
CB: Right. Dance around it.
KS: We can try and talk about other things this month, but we’re really gonna be talking about the eclipse.
CB: Pretend the ‘elephant in the room’ isn’t there.
KS: Yeah. Gosh, okay, so there were a couple of references to the Saros series that this eclipse belongs to, and the last times that it has happened, which off the top of my head—correct me if I’m wrong—were ‘99 and ‘81 and the links to Clinton’s impeachment and the attempted assassination of Reagan. So there were some interesting points; Lynn Bell made those points. And then Demetra made some wonderful connections with the asteroids, which I can’t remember a lot of the specifics, but a ‘Russia’ asteroid and a couple of other really interesting pieces. Demetra commented on Trump’s solar return for this year, having Jupiter conjunct the ascendant, almost being a little bit like a ‘get out of jail free’ card for him, potentially. We all talked about the connection to—well, maybe not all—but I know Demetra and I referenced the Saturn station, which is exactly conjunct Trump’s Moon in the 5th house, and the connection to his eldest son, or one of his sons now being caught up in this, along with his son-in-law; so the ‘children’ issue. And I had made the point about Trump being in a 12th house profection year, being ruled by the Moon, which is having that Saturn station. I personally was quite concerned. I talked about the 12th house as being illnesses of the soul or the spirit or the mind in contrast to the 6th house, which is illnesses potentially of the body, or more specifically, in the tangible; so that stress piece. So those were some of the bigger points that stuck with me, Austin.
AC: Yeah, so if I’m remembering Trump’s chart correctly—if we’re doing Leo rising, 12th house Cancer—what’s interesting is he does have the ruler of the 6th, Capricorn, in the 12th.
KS: Correct. Saturn is there, yes.
AC: So there’s not only ‘dis-eases’ of the psyche, but also the body at play in that profection year.
KS: And that’s what I thought, too. I hadn’t picked up on that piece, but you’re right. But even just having the Moon receiving that station of Saturn—cuz the Moon has more to do with the body, I see that with physical problems—I was like both are going on there. But this looks like someone really in the grind, like under pressure.
CB: And where that showed up recently is it’s the ruler of the 12th activated this year as the lord of the year, and natally, it’s in the 5th house of children.
KS: Yes.
CB: And that was like the big thing over the past month, that whole email exchange that his son had and the implications of that, and whether that in and of itself would drag Trump down or would become problematic or annoying or whatever for him.
KS: Absolutely. So that we talked about. And then, yeah, Demetra mentioned—at the very end of the presentation—about the Jupiter ascendant in the solar return. And I had made a point based on our discussions, guys. You know how we had talked after the election, and one of us sort of made that point that Trump has Regulus on his ascendant, if we use that 10:54 time. You know, my interpretation of that is literally a trump card. And if you’re going to defeat someone who has that star in such a prominent place, you need an equal amount of strength, or you need something equivalent. You know, it was like, how does he come down if he’s got this great gift? And then Demetra had commented about the Jupiter on the ascendant in the solar return as like a ‘get out of jail free’ card.
AC: So one thing about Regulus is—I haven’t studied this with a particular focus—Bernadette Brady basically makes the case that it’s up to ‘Regulus’ people to defeat themselves.
KS: Right. Yeah, and you have to be very aware of things like the negative emotions of jealousy or ego getting away from you. Or if you get caught in a thing about revenge, that will bring you down. The revenge, for those royal stars, will be the downfall. So that’s true actually, Austin. Maybe we just need for him to get into a position where he tries to go out and take revenge against a particular person or organization and have that be his own downfall, potentially.
CB: What’s the nature of Regulus, again, Austin? Is it like Mars and Jupiter, according to Ptolemy?
AC: Yeah, I’m not a huge fan of that ‘planets/stars’ thing. I think it’s rough. It’s not useless, but I think it’s a crooked road.
KS: It’s broad and crude.
AC: It’s crude, right? I would say that Regulus is super-solar in terms of being able to be seen and to be popular. Yeah, it’s ‘fame’ steroids.
KS: And it’s about fame and success, but it’s not necessarily about happiness or satisfaction.
AC: Right.
CB: Okay.
KS: Ptolemy says Mars and Jupiter, yeah.
AC: That makes sense. It’s aggressive, but it’s also often self-celebratory. Although one can encounter Regulus if it were conjunct a planet that ruled the 7th; then a person would be drawn to that in a partner. But for him, it’s on the ascendant.
CB: Sure. And so, this becomes relevant because the eclipse this month is taking place in Leo, and it’s taking place in Trump’s first whole sign house. And one of the things that we actually learned during the Obama presidency that was actually pretty impressive when it happened is Ptolemy makes this statement—it’s a very old doctrine—that the chart of a leader of a country becomes almost like a proxy for the chart of the country in general, for the period that they’re in control or in power. And so, there has been this sort of lingering question for the past year or so, which is, does his chart then—and things that happen to it—have a ripple effect across the country if it starts getting hit by major transits, or in this case, the eclipse that takes place this month? And then aside from that everyone’s calling this the ‘Great American Eclipse’. Not sure who came up with that. But it seems to have become more common over the past few months because it’s actually crossing the entire continental United States, essentially, right? Starting in the Pacific Northwest and then going over all the way to the East Coast, right?
AC: Mm-hmm.
KS: Correct. And the other piece around the point you’re making, Chris, I completely agree with the idea that the leader of a country—their chart sort of becomes the pseudo-chart for the country itself. Tycho Brahe commented—the Danish court astrologer in the 16th century, off the top of my head—about how he thinks that kings and princes are more affected by eclipses because the Sun and Moon are like ‘princes’ among the planets. So the idea of how it will affect us, I think it’s incredibly significant not only when the leader of a country’s chart is being triggered by the eclipse, but when that person happens to be leading a country where the eclipse is having the largest swath of visible totality, because that also highlights the geographical area where these eclipse events come to pass.
AC: Yeah, agree totally. I wanted to back up to one of the earlier points that you shared, Kelly, which is what happens when we look at the last time there was a solar eclipse on the North Node in Leo, and the time before that, etc., etc. And that brings us to the attempt to impeach Bill Clinton and to the assassination attempt on Ronald Reagan. So we have the leaders of this country obviously going through a rough time.
KS: Yes.
AC: If we leave speculating on the outcome aside for a second, Donald Trump is certainly going through a rough time, and it’s probably not going to get easier during August. You know, it’s also worth remembering that in the ‘Declaration’ chart for the United States, the North Node’s in Leo, right? This is the cycle for the United States. You know, one of the ways that I’ve been trying to think about this without becoming obsessed about exactly what will happen to one person is that this is a ‘crisis of leadership’ cycle for the United States, right? This isn’t the first crisis of leadership that we’ve ever had and will not be the last. Again, I think it’s useful to hold a little bit wider frame and then think about particulars within that, because I do feel like Donald Trump does appear to be in a ‘tension’ vortex and participated in many conversations that have gotten derailed, where everybody just wants to focus on that. And it’s certainly hard not to want to speculate about that, but there’s also the greater meaning. Like you said, this is the country as a whole. This series has a lot to do with the country as a whole. And, Kelly, the point you made about not only do eclipses perhaps affect leaders more, but this eclipse is more visible in the United States than any we’ve had for a very long time, and it’s conjoined the current president’s ascendant. Worth noting that Bill Clinton had several planets in Leo, right?
KS: This eclipse is on Clinton’s Sun.
AC: Right.
KS: Yeah, within a close degree as it is on Trump’s descendant.
AC: Yeah, we like our ‘Leo-heavy’ presidents in the United States. We also like presidents with things in early Cancer.
KS: Choleric-dominant. And you make a good point, Austin. The idea of the concept or the symbolism of a solar eclipse is, the Sun, the main planet to do with leadership or kings or figureheads, the light is blocked and darkened by the Moon. And so, that is significant, I think, for leaders in general, especially so given that this is a solar eclipse in Leo, which is a sign of kings in general. So yeah, you’re right. Let’s just take a step back out and forget about the specifics. Not forget, but just broaden our view. This is very much an eclipse that I think maybe there’s a reference in some of the older literature around, specifically, eclipses in Leo, having issues with leaders in general.
AC: Yeah. And again, the United States is the focal point of this eclipse, but there’s pretty much a crisis in leadership in the world in general.
KS: Britain has just had an issue there where their sitting prime minister decided to call an election early and has lost her majority, let alone what else is happening with other European leaders.
AC: Yeah. I mean, there’s also, for example, what’s going on in the Philippines where you have a leader whose policies are much more brutal than the norm, but is very popular. There are a variety of leadership changes happening all over the world. Like the kind of leaders we had since the beginning the post-Cold War era settled, you get a couple of varieties, and I feel like the species of leadership are in the process of mutating right now globally. Everybody reacts to the present in a different way, and our present is very different. Like the Uranus-Pluto squares did a great job of disrupting what we’ve been doing, what a lot of countries had been doing for, better or worse, for a couple of decades. And I would say we’re at pre-dawn of a different era, and the solar eclipse in Leo—the solar eclipses, cuz there will be more—speaks to that and points to that aspect of the present in a sense.
CB: Yeah, definitely. I mean, I don’t want to get too caught up on politics too much, even though that’s obviously one of the most relevant and pressing things that most people point to with this eclipse, just because it’s so clear in terms of how it shows up in the leader of the US’s chart. And so, one of the things about eclipses that I wanted to talk about is there’s a sort of alteration or there’s two different approaches oftentimes. On the one hand, there’s been a sort of traditional notion of eclipses as harbingers of doom and difficult things, and then there’s this other approach of eclipses sometimes being more like important markers in time that are signifying something important happening, but not necessarily being like the end of the world or something like that.
AC: Mm-hmm.
CB: And it seems like that’s kind of an important point to talk about and maybe focus on in terms of how this might relate to some people personally, especially if it’s falling in a prominent part of their chart. Or if the person has that eclipse somehow activated in a notable way—as like a time-lord or something like that this year—then they might expect something like that. So I know one thing that you mentioned earlier in the show, Kelly, is the Saros cycle. And I was wondering, how could that be relevant in terms of personal prediction, in terms of eclipses?
KS: Yeah, so the Saros cycle works on—I always get confused whether it’s 18 or 19 years. I think the Saros cycle is 18 years, which is different from the Metonic cycle, which is 19 years. So all eclipses belong to one Saros series or another, which is like a family or a group of eclipses. And these groups of eclipses start as tiny, partial eclipses at either the North or South Node and then move up or down the globe, and they become strongest the nearest they are to the middle-band of the globe. And part of what makes this eclipse coming up in August 2017 so dramatic is that it’s part of a Saros series. The Saros series takes about 1,300 years. This one is about 600-650-years-old. So we’re right in the middle-band. So we’re in that period where the eclipse in this Saros series is coming through in its most dramatic or total form. So if you’re looking in your own chart, there’s two ways to really work with it. You can either work with it on the 18-year cycle and think about the themes of this eclipse and how the eclipse now triggers your chart compared to how it did 18 years ago. But the thing to keep in mind is that the eclipse belonging to the Saros series from 18 years ago won’t have been at the exact same degree in Leo. For that, you’ve got to go to the 19-year cycle. So there’s a couple of different cycles that you can use that sometimes trip people up with the eclipses. I think personally the energy of this eclipse—if we step back from the global—this is a New Moon-North Node eclipse conjunct Mars. There’s a lot of energy about pushing forward. So if this eclipse is hitting a point—like an angle or a planet, like a personal planet or the Sun or Moon in your chart—it’s very much about this pushing forward, breaking from the past. The sensitive degrees—we’ve got the node at 24 Leo, and then the Sun and Moon conjunct the lunation itself, or the eclipse, at 28 Leo; anything within 3° orb of either of those points really. And so, if this eclipse is directly hitting your chart, it’s a huge emphasis of energy. Have you guys thought about it from that perspective—the New Moon-North Node-Mars, pushing forward—and what that might mean for people?
CB: Uh, yeah. I mean, that’s crucial here just because it’s so close to that line-up with Mars. It’s kind of unique in terms of eclipses go, having another planet so close to it like that. I haven’t looked into this—I’m sure it’s probably mentioned in an astronomy article—but if you’re in like Casper, Wyoming or where it’s dark enough, will you actually be able to see Mars once it gets dark enough out, even though it’s in the middle of the day?
KS: That comment came up in the eclipse panel. I think Lee might have suggested that we will actually be able to glimpse Mars if the conditions are right. It’s right on that 8° mark of being too close to the Sun. But because the Sun is dark, yeah.
AC: And Mercury, too.
KS: Right. Mercury as well, for sure. To be able to see Mars and Mercury in the middle of the day, I mean, even the symbolism of that—that the solar force is occluded and that there are other light forces or other symbols or other types of people, for instance, that come forward or step into that void—I think that’s worth reflecting on.
AC: Yeah, that connects to one of the ways that I think about eclipses based on some of the experiences that I’ve had doing various, let’s call them ‘meditative experiments’ during past eclipses.
KS: Reading between the lines. I love it, Austin.
AC: Anyway, I was doing some stuff on an eclipse last year, and I had this really, I don’t know, it felt profound at the time, vision of these two circles, which are usually out of alignment. You could see them, yeah, these two circles which are usually out of alignment clicking together and then opening a door. Let me see how to get into this. Okay, imagine one door leads from phenomenal reality—from solid, ‘what seems real’ reality—out into what is invisible or spiritual. And that’s one doorway, right? That’s one direction. And then you have another doorway which leads from the invisible to the visible, right? So stuff wants to go from the invisible into the world of visibility, into what we consider real. And then some things want to leave the world of visibility and go back into invisible. The very simplest version of this would be the way that a soul comes into this world and then leaves this world, but it’s not confined to those dynamics. The vision that I had was of those doors usually being blocked and that during the eclipse, the two doors sort of clicked together and then both opened; and you have everything that’s waiting to get in, able to get in, and everything that’s ready to go out can go out. And my experience of that was on the first of two eclipses, and it kind of felt like that door was just open for the next several weeks and didn’t close until well after the second one.
If we look at some of the very core ideas presented about the nodes in Vedic astrology, both of the nodes are represented as half-figures, not unlike our ‘head’ and ‘tail’ of the dragon. But if you have Rahu, the North Node, he’s often seen as not having a lower body, and then Ketu often doesn’t have a head, and both of them are explicitly about dealing with the way that the invisible and the visible interact. You know, the part that appears to be missing is in the invisible part, and then there’s the part you can see—which is the half we can see—which is in the visible part. The nodes and the eclipses that they augur have to do with the snake or dragon winding in and out and almost lacing together the visible and the invisible. And I know I’ve been ranting for a while. I have one more thing to say. And that is, Chris, you made a point earlier about ‘are they omens of doom, or does it mean something else’. One of the things that I see is that eclipses appear to be, in some cases, a ‘fate delivery system’, where, in retrospect, it looks like things that were always going to happen—that make deep, poetic sense in terms of a person’s biography—come through.
KS: Mm-hmm. So it’s almost like this is the time where that download or connection or interaction happens, where things that are essential or necessary are happening, maybe on a slightly faster timeline than one might have expected.
AC: Right. They’ve been latent for a while. They’ve been waiting.
KS: Yeah.
CB: Yeah, I mean, see that a lot in client charts. Cuz one of the things you noted, Austin, is that this is the first eclipse of a series of eclipses that are gonna take place in Leo over the next year or two. And so, in some ways, it’s not just gonna be a singular event. But we’re looking at the starting-off point in a series of events in some instances, or at least with respect to some things. And sometimes for clients, you’ll see that show up if it moves into a new house. Wherever Leo is in your chart, you might look at what whole sign house that is, and for some people those topics are gonna become highlighted over the next couple of years. So if that’s falling in your 10th house, that might be highlighting the career sector and some really critical turning points or critical series of events that start taking place at this time. If it falls in your 4th house, it might pertain to your home and your living situation. If it falls in your 7th house, it might pertain to relationships and maybe the starting or the ending of major relationships, depending on how it’s situated. So from a personal standpoint, a non-mundane standpoint, it can be useful to just look at it as a crucial turning point or signifying a crucial turning point with respect to the topics in the part of the chart that it falls.
AC: Mm-hmm. But I would also say we should remember that there are eclipses in Aquarius, too. There are no eclipses without polarity, right? It’s always about a pair of houses or a pair of signs, and this poor, partial lunar eclipse just isn’t getting any love.
KS: But it’s happening first, isn’t it? So the lunar eclipse in Aquarius is about the 7th of August?
AC: Mm-hmm.
KS: The 8th in Australia.
CB: Let me pull up the chart for that. I’m kind of slacking today on displaying the charts. So here is the chart for the eclipse itself, which is 28° Leo, correct?
KS: Yes, the solar eclipse on August 21st, 22nd in Australia. And as Austin was saying, the idea that it’s a pair of houses. We have the nodes moving through Aquarius and Leo now and that’s the setup or the landscape for eclipses over the next 18 months. There are gonna be some maybe not-so-visible-in-the-US eclipses next year, but there are still some pretty exciting eclipses in Aquarius and Leo into 2018.
AC: Yeah. If I remember correctly, there is—never mind. I’m not gonna bring it up cuz I would need to triple-check it, and I don’t want to open another can of worms.
CB: That notion of polarity, though, that’s really important, just because that means when an eclipse moves into a new house for you, it’s activating not just the topics of that house, but also the topics of the opposing house. And you get like a year-and-a-half or an almost two-year period of just bouncing back and forth between the topics of those two opposing houses becoming lit up at that point, or lit up in terms of your life and in terms of your experience of the events surrounding those specific areas of your life. So if it’s 1st house/7th house, sometimes that’s self versus others, or sometimes health and relationships. If it’s 4th house/10th house, that might be your home and family and living situation versus your career and reputation. What are some other polarities in those different houses that might be relevant for individuals, depending on where it falls?
KS: Uh, 6th house/12th house. So the health-wellness/work-service axis. Did you say 3rd/9th house?
CB: No.
KS: Learning, travel, ideas, concepts, philosophy, expression. 5th and 11th, did you mention that one?
CB: No. That would be children versus friends or something like that?
KS: Yeah. And I sometimes see that 5th/11th house as like the axis of pleasure and relaxation. Are you doing more stuff for yourself personally, maybe with children, if you have them (5th house), or are you more focused on friendships, groups, doing things in a leisure or relaxation level but out in the world more? So it will be really interesting for people to think about. And 2nd/8th of course, money, resources.
AC: Yeah, what’s yours, what’s mine, and what’s ours.
KS: Exactly. Oh, yeah, Austin, you were gonna tell us about that one.
CB: Well, the 2nd and the 11th, one of the topics that I’ve been really more fascinated about over the past few months—seeing it just so vividly—is the idea of the work that you put into things that won’t come to fruition until some point in the future. So what you’re working on now, that has long-term and not necessarily immediate implications, just because planets in both of those houses are actually rising up towards the angular house. So they’re building up and sort of setting the foundation for something that may not pay off until later.
AC: That’s interesting. I wanted to add about the 5th and the 11th. One of the ways that I see the 5th and the 11th work for people is that the 5th is what you are creating, and the 11th is who can see it.
KS: Oh, lovely.
AC: And so, half of the time a 5th/11th set of eclipses will be about letting people see what you’ve been making, letting people see what you’re creating with your life. And then the other version is stop worrying so much about what everybody thinks and just do your thing, depending on where the North and South are.
CB: Right. Yeah, that makes total sense. So this is the chart. I have the chart up right now for the lunar eclipse that takes place on August 7. So this is right away the first week of the month. That’s one of the major highlights of this month, or of the first part of this month. We get that lunar eclipse right away on August 7. And that’s tied in with the previous set of eclipses from six months earlier, right?
KS: Yes, the February eclipses.
AC: Sort of. The February eclipses—it was the last eclipse in the Pisces/Virgo series, but the first in the Leo/Aquarius series. And so, it was a linkage between two sets, yeah.
KS: Cuz we’ve had the nodes change signs since we’ve had the February eclipses.
AC: Right. But we still got one in Leo.
KS: We did. We had 22 Leo in February.
AC: And I would recommend looking at what happened then to get an angle on what is probably going to happen at the end of August, but more loudly, right? It’s an eclipse in the last decan of Leo. That was lunar, this is solar. This one’s stronger, but there will be a connection between those two points in time.
CB: Definitely. And in terms of early stuff, I do want to go through a little bit chronologically so we make sure we hit everything at this point. But at the very top of the month, in August, we’ve got a Uranus station in late Aries, right?
KS: Yeah, on the 3rd, I think, at 28 Aries. So this is maybe the second last station in Aries.
CB: Yeah, so we’re actually getting towards the very end of—what is that? It’s been like a seven-year transit of Uranus through Aries.
AC: Mm-hmm.
KS: Yeah, it moved in, in 2010.
AC: In May 2010. And then it jumped back to Pisces, and then it entered for keepsies within a day of Fukushima in 2011.
CB: Okay. And this is one of those things, cuz we noted at the beginning of the year that there’s tons of activity in late fire signs pretty much all year. Because you have Saturn in late Sagittarius, you have the nodes going through and other stuff happening, including the eclipse in late Leo. And then you’ve got this station of Uranus at 28° of Aries, which is interesting because that’s trine to the eclipse degree, which will be at 28° of Leo. So that’s an interesting precursor in terms of the eclipses coming up, just because that happens right out of the gate, at the very beginning of August. On August 3, like Kelly said.
KS: Is it the 3rd? 2nd, sorry. I’m just reading out of the ephemeris, yeah.
CB: Okay.
KS: But it is early in the month, for sure. And you’re right, Chris, because around the time of the eclipse, in addition, we are going to have a bit of a fire trine going on with Saturn, Uranus, and Mars, and probably the Sun. So that eclipse is sort of part of the ‘August eclipses’ part of that. So that late fire activation is reaching a bit of a peak.
CB: Right, definitely. I mean, it’s not the end, but it seems like the culminating point of a lot of the fire stuff that we were pointing out in the forecast episode for this year. It all really takes place this month, this summer, where you get so many planets in fire signs, including at one point, Mercury. So one of the big issues with Mercury is when we were looking at the electional charts—when Leisa and I were looking at electional charts for this month—it’s like we wanted to use that Mercury in Virgo to create some nice Mercury elections, but we ran into an issue, which is that it’s getting ready to station retrograde, of course, and that question of whether you would still want to use and make the focal point of an electional chart a planet that’s preparing to turn retrograde. How do you guys feel about that?
AC: I would say it depends on how close. I also am wary of Mercury moving towards opposition with Neptune. I find Neptune’s aspect to Mercury to be very disruptive in terms of Mercury’s priorities.
CB: Yeah, especially Mercury in Virgo, where you’re shooting for a much clearer and more grounded and more detail-oriented Mercury in terms of communication or speaking or research or whatever mercurial-type thing you’re trying to do. But then if you put Neptune exactly opposite to that, you’re literally almost counteracting some of the good things that you’re trying to get from that Mercury in Virgo.
AC: Yeah, yeah. I think Neptune is very hostile to Mercury significations.
KS: Yeah, I think one helping factor for the Mercury is the support from Venus via sextile Venus in Cancer. It actually peaks a couple of days before the start of the retrograde itself, so I think that’s a helpful feature. I don’t know how close I would go to the Mercury station if I had to make Mercury the focal point in an election chart. I think I would try and keep a few days away from the station itself. The opposition to Neptune won’t perfect or become exact until September, because Mercury will station retrograde at 11 Virgo before it gets to Neptune.
CB: Right. Let me just animate that. So there’s Mercury getting to 11, and then stationing by about August 12 or so at 11° of Virgo. So you’re right. It isn’t quite perfect, but it gets within a couple of degrees of that opposition with Neptune.
KS: Yeah. And if you back the chart up a few days, Chris, back to Mercury about 10°, maybe 9°, that’s when we get the sextile from Venus really coming in quite strongly. So I think that can be a bit helpful.
CB: Yeah, definitely. Especially with Venus in the superior position back there in Cancer. So this is probably a good time actually to bring up the electional chart for the month. So let me pull that up. So Leisa Schaim of leisaschaim.com did the electional chart for this month and struggled, like I said, a little bit with that Mercury, and like wanting to use that Mercury in Virgo. But we ultimately didn’t think that any of those elections were worth highlighting as the best election for the month. So what we ended up doing then is going with a kind of safe Cancer rising election at one point, when the Moon makes it into Cancer. So this election takes place August 18. It wasn’t a very good month for electional charts, honestly. It was a hard month to find really super-strong or super-ideal ones.
KS: I would agree.
CB: Yeah. So you’ve had some issues doing that with clients as well?
KS: Yeah, I have. I was like, oh, my gosh, it seems like there should be some, but it’s just really tricky. I’ve suggested September. So when we get to September, there’ll be a lot more elections to talk about.
CB: Yeah, it’s one of those things where there’s a difference between if you’ve got several months, and you want me to recommend a chart—the best chart I can find in a several-month period—versus if I need to recommend the best chart I can find in this timeframe. It’s a much different litmus test or a much different calculus that goes into choosing that sort of chart. So this was one of the best that we could find for this month, that we wanted to highlight for August. So it takes place on August 18, 2017. We have it set for 3:24 AM in Denver, Colorado. So you’re gonna have to get up pretty early.
KS: Nice and early.
CB: I mean, in my case and Austin’s case, stay up a little bit late.
KS: You guys will be still up, so that’s fine.
AC: Yeah, that’s not quite bed time.
CB: That’s like dinnertime. So it has Cancer rising. And this is using a local time. So you should be able to set it for about 3:24-3:30 in the morning for most locations, and you just want to adjust the chart so it has about 20° of Cancer rising. So the thing that this chart has going for it is it’s a night chart with Cancer rising. The Moon is the ruler of the ascendant, and it’s placed in Cancer in the first whole sign house, in its own sign. So it has both sign-based strength or auspiciousness, as well decent placement by house. If you wanted to, you could even do it a little bit earlier and back the ascendant up, so that the Moon is exactly conjunct the degree of the ascendant, if you want to make it a little bit more prominent in the chart, or if you want to push it into the first quadrant house. The Moon itself is actually just barely separating from a sextile with Mercury, which is probably for the best, because otherwise it’s apply to a retrograde Mercury, which isn’t super-helpful necessarily. But in this chart, it’s actually applying to a square with Jupiter, which is down in the 4th house in Libra, and then eventually to that conjunction with Venus, which is in the 1st house. And in this chart, we have it right on the degree of the ascendant in a night chart, so that Venus is actually the most positive planet in the chart based on the concept or the principle of sect; which holds that Venus is more positive in a night chart, and Jupiter is more positive in day charts.
So the challenging planet in this chart—because it’s a night chart—is Saturn, which is sort of off in the 6th house, not causing too many problems in terms of the ruler of the ascendant or the Moon. We have the Sun and Mars in the 2nd house, again, not really doing that much. We do have Mercury in Virgo in the 3rd house. It’s already retrograde by this point, unfortunately. So it’s not super-helpful, but it’s at least relatively well-placed in Virgo in the third whole sign house. And then, finally, we have Jupiter angular in the 4th. So this is a chart that really emphasizes both of the benefics by making them both angular, and thus, kind of drawing out their power in terms of this electional chart. So this is the main election that we wanted to highlight publicly this month. What do you guys think?
KS: I can see why you want to get up at 3:24. Cuz you’re looking for a night chart, obviously, to keep Mars in his better self.
CB: Right.
KS: Yeah, I think this is functional, if you’re awake at three. It’s not functional for me because I’m sleeping.
CB: Yeah, it’s funny sometimes with these charts and the weird times that astrologers end up doing things. And I sort of go back and forth between thinking that’s really smart and brilliant and worth it, and others it’s like three o’clock in the morning and I’m getting up super early and wondering if this is just neurotic to get up that early in order to get an electional chart, and then launch it and go back to sleep. But as we’ve discussed many times in the past, you do have those other instances where astrologers will occasionally just say, “Forget about it, I’m not doing the electional chart,” and then you do it under a terrible chart, and everything goes awry. And you’re sort of reminded in that moment of why sometimes we do go out of our way to get a good electional chart from time to time.
AC: Yep, I have had both of those experiences.
KS: It is worth it, I agree, even just to get a nice ascendant ruler and a nice Moon aspect. And in this case, they’re one and the same. I’m thinking for me personally, it’d be great if I had to schedule something to be published or to be sent out. And then of course you can do that in advance.
CB: Right, right. All right, yeah, so that’s our electional chart for this month. And Leisa and I are actually gonna record—either later today or tomorrow—our full, 45-minute Auspicious Elections Podcast, where every month we record a 45-minute episode that’s released to patrons of The Astrology Podcast, who sign up our page on Patreon, on the $5 or $10 tier. And then they get access to three other electional charts that we actually discovered for this month, and then we record a podcast to outline them for patrons. So if you want to find out more information about that, I think you can go to theastrologypodcast.com/subscribe, and then go to our page Patreon and you’ll see the other information about The Auspicious Elections Podcast. All right, so that’s the election for this month. So where are we at? So we’ve talked a little bit about the first week of August. What are some of the other major things happening, astrologically? I think we’re at the third Jupiter-Saturn—or Jupiter-Pluto square, right?
AC: I was just gonna bring that up. We have two really interesting ‘Jupiter’ moments this month. One is Jupiter-Pluto—Jupiter square Pluto—and the other is the long-delayed completion of the sextile between Jupiter and Saturn.
CB: Okay.
KS: Yeah.
CB: So let me pull that up on the screen for people that are watching the livestream or watching the video version of this, which is the benefit of us starting to do videos. So around August 5-ish, it looks like we have Jupiter, which is now finally direct. And by this point, it’s cruising through the later parts of Libra, or it’s in the middle parts of Libra, getting ready to get towards the end of Libra within just a few months. And Jupiter completes its final square with Pluto right around 17° of Libra and Capricorn.
KS: Yes, that’s in the first few days of the month, and then we have the Jupiter sextile Saturn towards the end of the month. But, Austin, I had actually forgotten about the Jupiter-Pluto square, so I need to hear what you have to say about this.
AC: Well, I just remember at the end of our last month’s recording somebody was like, “Are you gonna talk about Jupiter-Pluto?” and we were like, “Yeah, we’ll do that next month.”
KS: Yeah, you’ve got a good memory.
AC: So we definitely have to do that.
KS: Totally. Okay, so what do we want to say about this? I’m gonna find when the first hit was to remind myself.
AC: It was Thanksgiving. American Thanksgiving.
KS: November 2016. That’s right.
CB: I like that you’re looking at your ephemeris, because that’s actually demonstrating why my second recommended book for new students of astrology is the ephemeris.
KS: I saw your list. Absolutely. I tell my students, as much as you have great software—which of course we all do, even if Austin—who wasn’t that didn’t have Solar Fire?
AC: It was me.
KS: Do you have it now?
AC: I told you all. I said to everyone, this is a great deal, cuz Chris had a discount code.
KS: The saving was amazing.
AC: I said, “I’m gonna go do that,” and I totally went and did that.
CB: I still have that, by the way. So listeners of The Astrology Podcast can get a 15% discount on Solar Fire if they use the promo code ‘AP15’, with no spaces, when they purchase Solar Fire through the Astrolabe website. Use that promo code, and you’ll get a 15% discount.
KS: So this is our third hit. All of these ‘Jupiter square Pluto’ hits, the first one in November 2016 was at 15 Libra/Capricorn.
CB: Okay.
KS: The second one was at 19 Libra/Capricorn. The third one now is 17. And the second one is late March/early April. I like just thinking about this. Austin, are you pre-prepared?
AC: I kind of liked what I wrote about the first one.
KS: Yeah.
AC: I don’t know, we can start with that. My take on it—on a more visionary or poetic level—was about the separation of the spirit of justice from the current shape or form that it takes. The sort of alchemical separation of the body and spirit of justice and the body or form needing to be remade, while the spirit is remembered in principle and without context. We can just look at this in terms of the justice system in the United States or whatever.
KS: Yeah.
AC: Fairness is a pretty important human dynamic. So we have the idea of what’s fair, but then how do we structure our relationships personally or collectively to actually enact that principle? And that Pluto—especially Pluto in Capricorn—very often points to systems which have decayed to the point where they do not accomplish the purpose for which they were designed. You have this alchemical ‘needing the body to die’ and then cut it up and reform it the way you do alchemically, so the spirit can then inhabit a body which makes sense for it. And I believe I wrote something. I had sort of like a crumpled, broken statue of Justice from which the goddess has fled.
KS: Oh, yes, yes. It is interesting. So almost that threat or attack to the concept of justice or integrity. You know, I want to say ‘kindness’, cuz I think one of the ideals of Jupiter in Libra is that fairness that is sort of morally and ethically kind.
AC: Absolutely.
KS: Yeah. And it is making me think of the issue—particularly in the US, if I’m remembering rightly—where Obama was trying to confirm a justice, like a senior court justice towards the end of his presidency, and I don’t think he was able to because of the way the House or the Senate was working or what have you. And I kind of remember how that story unfolded, but that’s just one little example of this antagonistic energy, really, between the old power-that-be (maybe Pluto in Cap) with the ideal of justice and how that is having to be adjusted in this current climate.
AC: Absolutely. Yeah, on a really simple level, I think Pluto has the capacity to limit or sabotage what Jupiter in Libra is trying to do.
KS: Yes.
AC: If we maybe go one level deeper, Pluto is saying there actually needs to be a much deeper change here. You can’t just grease it up with a little ‘Jupiter’ juice. You know, we can’t just throw a little fairy dust on it. Some deeper repair and rebirth may be necessary in order to get to the ‘Jupiter in Libra’ ideal.
KS: Yeah. And so, for people who are listening at home, or following on Facebook, the idea of checking into the houses in their charts or in our charts where the Jupiter in Libra transit is happening and the Pluto in Capricorn transit is happening. Even if it’s not hitting within a few degrees of a planet in your chart, that concept you just talked about, Austin, about how we have to dig deeper, we have to go further and maybe to the shadow or the darkness, or maybe even our own conscious gunk to try and get this ‘Jupiter in Libra’ ideal supported in whatever house that’s coming through. But the Pluto in Capricorn house is an essential part of the process.
AC: Mm-hmm. When you say it like that, it makes sense for what’s been going on for me and what I’ve been thinking about.
KS: Okay, cool. Based on how it’s showing up in your chart?
AC: Yeah, just thinking about the houses actually makes a ton of sense to me.
KS: Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah, I feel like, ooh, I’m gonna have to think about this later, too. It’s big. Cuz what you spoke to made me think of the idea that it’s like a conceptual or a structural change that’s required. You can’t just put another thing on top and hope it’s okay.
AC: Right, right.
KS: We’ve gotta dig into the foundation. Like how do we get here? And then we have to recreate it down here before this ‘Jupiter in Libra’ ideal can be made manifest.
AC: Yep. All right, I think we did it.
KS: Yeah, we got it. So whoever has been waiting since last month, thank you for your patience.
CB: Yeah, so this is sort of completing that. So that’s actually something that’s probably been taking place, or a series of events, since late last year when that first square occurred. And then we got the second square in a few months, and then this is the final one in order to bring that process to completion.
KS: Totally. And I’m just thinking, too, very quickly, Austin and I obviously are the same generation, and within this timeframe, within those degrees, we are part of a generation who have Pluto in Libra, between that 15°- and 19°-point. So this Jupiter-Pluto square is actually triggering the larger Pluto square Pluto life cycle or generational transit. So if you are like Austin and I, and you were born in the late ‘70s, or you’re currently in your late 30s, maybe just on the other side of 40, it may be a little bit more poignant for you because it’s tapping into that. Not everyone is a ‘spring chicken’ like our dear Chris.
CB: Right. I know. I always forget that you guys are in a different Pluto generation than I am—the Pluto in Libra versus the Pluto in Scorpio generation. Although I’m starting to see a lot more Pluto in Scorpio astrologers. It’s actually kind of surprising.
AC: You guys are getting old.
CB: We’re starting to come out of the woodwork.
KS: They’re all—not all, but many of them are now post-Saturn return, too, with Saturn having gone through there.
AC: Yeah. No, Kelly and I are different Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto.
KS: To you.
CB: I’m one of the unique ones that’s still Neptune in Sag.
AC: Oh, yeah.
KS: Oh, you are.
AC: Yeah, it’s like the very end.
CB: Yeah, just barely.
KS: So we all have that in common.
AC: Right. That’s the ‘disco’ Neptune.
CB: Right.
KS: Because of the decan, Austin?
AC: Uh, no. Neptune in Sag was disco.
KS: Oh, just the disco. So the whole generation. Of course, that makes sense.
AC: It’s the ‘70s Neptune. It’s like psychedelics and bright and loud and cocaine.
KS: Yep, that makes sense.
AC: That’s literally what happened, right?
CB: There should be a disco symbol for one of the decan, though, I agree. I don’t know if that’s in the Picatrix.
AC: I’m gonna have to think about that.
CB: Yeah, that’ll have to be a future project. Because you did the book where you brought out all of the ancient symbols for the decans, but maybe it would be a good project to create the modern symbols for the decans at some point in the future.
AC: Well, I did that already.
CB: Yeah, I guess you did do that. All right, well, you did omit the ‘disco’ decan.
AC: No, it’s true.
KS: Based on what you know, Austin, which decan in Sag do you think is the most disco?
AC: Uh, that’s a good question. I don’t know. I mean, Leo 2 is a pretty good contender for the ‘disco’ decan. It’s the Jupiter-ruled decan in Leo.
KS: Yeah.
AC: It’s interesting with Sag—with the decans and just Sag in general—because Sag can be so incredibly intense and military and philosophical. You get all of these images of warriors or people having to tap the very core of their spirit to get through things, but then you also have this super-fun side of Sag. And most of the traditional symbols, most of the traditional decanic images for Sag are actually really serious. It’s like it’s a guy in a chariot with a bow and arrow, moving swiftly to war, that kind of stuff. And they get more depressing than that. Here’s one that’s just kind of interesting, but I think very relevant to the period of time where we are. So in using the descending order method of determining planetary rulers—which sort of became the standard in the Western side of astrology—the last decan of Sagittarius is ruled by Saturn. And so, Saturn has been there pretty much this whole year and is going to be there the rest of the year. The image for that from the Picatrix is a man with a golden crown or hat murdering somebody.
KS: That’s a great image. So evocative.
AC: Well, I mean, if we’re talking about leadership issues, it’s not wrong.
KS: That’s what I was getting at. And that’s a nice segue to come to the other Jupiter aspect for the month, which is the Jupiter sextile Saturn, while Saturn is in that decan at the very end of August.
CB: Right. And I want to mention really quickly, it looks like we’re running out of time. Because we’ve got 15 minutes left, right? Is that correct?
KS: Yes.
CB: Okay. So we might want to start nailing the rest of whatever we wanted to cover. So the Saturn-Jupiter—sorry, the Saturn sextile to Jupiter, right?
KS: Mm-hmm.
AC: We should talk about that and the Mercury retrograde.
CB: Yeah, the Mercury retrograde is huge to me. Cuz it’s like right in the middle of the month, and it gets so much tied into that whole cluster of stuff happening in late Leo. So I do feel like we should spend a few minutes talking about that.
KS: Let’s talk about that. That is really a big feature for August.
CB: Okay. So I’m gonna share the screen. And we see Mercury in Virgo, moving through Virgo in early August, but it’s slowing down. It’s getting slower and slower, cuz it’s getting further and further away from the Sun from our vantage point here on Earth. So eventually, by August 12-August 13, Mercury stations retrograde at 11° of Virgo, as we mentioned earlier, and then it starts backing up towards that whole cluster of stuff in Leo. So by the time the eclipse happens at 28° of Leo—around the 21st or so—Mercury is back to 8° of Virgo, and eventually the Sun does move into Virgo and then conjoins Mercury around August 26-August 27 at 3° of Virgo. And then what’s weird about it is that Mercury gets back to the beginning of Virgo and then makes a retrograde ingress into Leo. So it goes into 29 Leo, and there it catches up with Mars, who by this point is in late Leo as well. And then, eventually, we have a conjunction of Mercury and Mars at about 28° of Leo, which is the exact degree that the eclipse took place.
KS: Yes.
CB: And this is pushing us a little bit out of our timeframe, cuz this doesn’t happen until the very beginning of September. But it’s very, very notable because it creates this whole series of different combinations that are taking place around the eclipse and in connection with the eclipse degree rather than just a one-time event. We’re talking about a cluster of stuff happening.
KS: Every time you say ‘cluster’, Chris, I just want to finish that, but we’ll keep it G-rated. But it’s true. And that came up on the eclipse panel at the weekend. Demetra and I were commenting on the 10 to 14 days after the eclipse is going to move through and trigger all the ‘hot’ degrees of the eclipse period. And I actually hadn’t factored in the Mercury conjunct the Mars, but this is running right through to the 4th or 5th of September. And I think we’re still in this really ‘hot’ eclipse period or clustering timeframe.
CB: Right. You know, Mercury-Mars conjunctions—while they can sometimes be dynamic in a positive way, and it can ease communication or make a person much more free to say something, oftentimes that can be kind of difficult, or traditionally was interpreted as kind of a difficult combination.
AC: Um, I would like to bring up what I was late June’s Mercury-Mars conjunction in Cancer. That was the ‘poop in the pool’ moment.
CB: Right.
AC: And what’s funny is I had someone write me that literally happened. And I had several people write me that something extremely analogically-close, something very parallel to that happened. So this is not quite ‘poop in the pool’, cuz it’s not in Cancer.
KS: But it is poop.
AC: Definitely some stuff’s gonna get said. Oh, go ahead.
KS: I was just gonna say we don’t need anymore speaking without thinking coming into the mix, but that’s what this looks and feels like because this is a stationing Mercury. This is where Mercury stations direct.
CB: Right. So just a few days later. So when is that? It stations—oh, God, yeah, just a few days later. By September 5th and 6th, Mercury stations at that same degree, at 28. So Mercury stations direct on the eclipse degree just after hitting Mars. And that’s actually a really good point, Kelly, that there’s an impulsiveness about communication and sometimes saying something that you shouldn’t, or something that if you were in a less heated moment, that you wouldn’t say or you would hold your tongue, but instead sort of going with that. And that’s oftentimes, on a purely psychological level, one of the easiest examples of why a Mercury-Mars conjunction can be problematic or difficult much of the time.
KS: Absolutely. I mean, it feels like ‘shooting from the hip’, but it’s the words that are coming out with that. And you know, I always think of Leo as one of the ‘feral’ signs. The last half of Leo is potentially operating from that very primal place where it’s not the high, analytical, intellect of the Virgo or the Mercury or the air signs. It’s more reactive rather than thoughtful and considered. And I think this is just sort of bringing out perhaps the extreme of that.
CB: Yeah, and it’s hitting 28 Leo. What do you do if you’re in a situation where you’re already somebody who—I’m trying to imagine what that even looks like. Like what if you’re already somebody who says things off-the-cuff like that?
KS: Yeah, how do you get more? I mean, do you type up all night, tweeting, instead of just 3:00 AM tweeting? I’m not sure.
CB: Yeah, I don’t know. I guess we’re gonna find out. I mean, there’s worst-case scenarios and best-case scenarios. Hopefully, we’re just looking at the Twitter ‘storm of the century’ or something like that rather than reaching for the nuclear launch codes or something because somebody pissed you off.
KS: And that is a more extreme manifestation. That’s, technically, early in September. But by the time we record our next session, we will be in the thick of this energy. So it’s good that we’ve forewarned ourselves.
CB: Yeah. I mean, luckily, one of the things that’s almost a little positive is that by the time Mercury does station, Mars has moved into Virgo. And I feel like that takes a little bit of the heat off of Leo. So whatever placements are getting hit in late Leo, at least it’s like a relatively transitory thing by the time we get to early September and we’ve got some removal of a little bit of the impetus of some of that, once Mars moves into Virgo and begins its journey through that sign for however long it is; a month or two.
KS: It’ll be in Virgo for about six weeks, I think, until late October. Yeah, it’s sort of like a welcome cooling-off.
AC: Yeah. We’re already a week into the next month by the time Mars does that.
KS: Yeah, this is not until like the 6th-7th of September.
AC: So one thing I wanted to say is in terms of getting through August, I think a lot of people are going to experience it sort of like a Slip ‘N Slide sometime in the beginning of the month, and then it’s just gonna go. And you’re gonna wake up in September and be like, “That was fucking crazy.” Sorry. And trying to keep everything under control and to avoid being sidetracked from your perfect plan or schedule is probably not going to be a great strategy. I think trying to do a good job while you’re being taken along a certain course, it’s like, no, I’m gonna have this fight with somebody, or this is gonna be a thing, but I can at least try to do a good job of it. Does that make sense? Try to steer rather than plot the trajectory. To think about it, you guys ever been on a Slip ‘N Slide? You kind of angle a little bit.
KS: That’s a really good idea. Yeah, you can’t plan exactly where it’s gonna take you, but you can try and direct the force to a certain extent.
AC: You can avoid getting turned around and doing it backwards, which is gonna be even more terrifying and uncomfortable.
KS: Yes. Oh, God, I love your analogies, Austin.
AC: Thanks.
CB: Yeah.
AC: They’re what I have.
KS: They’re brilliant.
CB: So one of the last major things that happens in August that we should touch on is we have Saturn stationing direct in Sagittarius, right? This is actually the final station of Saturn before it basically proceeds to zip out of Sagittarius by the end of the year.
AC: I don’t think I’ve ever imagined Saturn zipping.
CB: Zipping, right. Even though it’s actually gone really quickly at this point, we’re, surprisingly, already nearly two years into Saturn in Sagittarius. But for some people—especially for some of those people with natal Saturn in Sagittarius that have been having their Saturn returns over the past couple of years, and the long trudge of Saturn through Sagittarius—now you can see the finish line. And you’ve got about four, five, six months to go. So from that perspective, let’s say jogging or having a nice jaunt through the rest of the sign.
KS: Totally. Yeah, it is. And yeah, I think it’s that intensification at 21 Sag. So if that happens to be significant for you, then more of that.
CB: Yeah.
KS: Yeah, Saturn will station at 21, and then we’re straight into the latter part of Sag, which is repeating territory. Saturn, I think, stationed retrograde at 26 or 27 in March, earlier this year, and then into Capricorn right around the solstice, which I think is kind of interesting.
AC: It’s very interesting. Also, Mercury stations retrograde right on top of Sag at the very end, right before Saturn ingresses.
KS: Ingress again.
AC: That’s the final chapter of planets in late fire signs in 2017. Obviously, whatever events that signifies will tie very closely into what’s happening this month.
KS: Oh, that’s a good point, because of the Mercury station at the end of Sag.
AC: On top of Saturn.
KS: Yeah.
AC: Pinging the eclipse degree and all that stuff.
KS: Very interesting.
CB: Yeah. Cuz I loved the ‘Saturn in Sagittarius’ episode that we did at the very beginning of this, and I want to do another one of those with Saturn in Capricorn with everybody, before that gets started. And then I’m also really looking forward to doing some of those interviews with ‘post-Saturn return, Saturn in Sagittarius’ people, because there’s just been some really literal and really evocative Saturn returns for some of those ‘Saturn in Sag’ people. Especially cuz most of them in the ‘80s had that unique conjunction of Saturn conjunct Uranus.
KS: Yes.
CB: And oftentimes some of their Saturn return stories have been things that just came out of the blue or things that were unexpected, and it’s been really funny and literal in that way.
AC: Yes.
KS: Totally.
AC: Being married to someone with one of those configurations, there have been a lot of surprises.
KS: So deadpan.
CB: Yeah, that’s one of the consistent themes. And then of course Saturn in Sag itself I feel has been really just very literal in terms of the many different ways that that’s played out, and the things that we talked about when we did that episode. A lot of that’s been pretty straightforward in terms of the keywords that we anticipated. But to see it play out in such a straightforward fashion has been really interesting over the past couple of years as well.
AC: Yeah, I’m really looking forward to that, too. I need to figure out a non-terrifying metaphorical framework for Saturn and Pluto in Capricorn.
CB: Right.
AC: When I was on a podcast not too long ago—Rune Soup, which you were on—and I was talking with the host, Gordon, about that, Gordon was like, “Oh, so this is the ‘Goat God of Death’?” And I was like, “That’s hilarious and not wrong, but we can’t call it that.”
CB: Right.
KS: I like that. It’s very true.
AC: Gordon’s a clever fellow. I’ve got half a reframe, which is that it’s an “Indiana Jones and the Goat God of Death.” There’s a sort of ‘archaeological, into the past’ adventure that’s full of spooky treasures and crumbling structures and tombs that are not yet entirely quiet. And perhaps at the bottom of that archaeological dig is the ‘Goat God of Death’, and maybe he’s not as bad as it sounds.
KS: I love that.
AC: In process, in process.
CB: Yeah.
KS: I love it. I mean, as soon as you said ‘this digging around’, it made me think of Outlander for some reason, because of the history, the historical component. You guys may not know anything about Outlander. Does this mean anything to either of you?
AC: I’ve heard of it, but I haven’t watched it.
KS: Okay, you guys have the wrong biological equipment to be aware of this series. It is a historical novel series equivalent to Game of Thrones. Book nine is about to come out. Each book is about a thousand-pages-long. It’s set between the 20th century in England and 18th century Scotland, but also 18th century America, so the revolutionary period. And interestingly, of course the Pluto return that is going on collectively ties into that timeframe now. And this book series has been made into a show. If you ask any of the women in your life, they may be a little more familiar with this. So this is a shoutout to our female listeners. Although there’s a lot of great history in the books and in the series, if you like historical stuff.
AC: That sounds interesting.
KS: And there’s a bit of time travel. So the woman, the main character, goes through the standing stones in Scotland from the 1940s or 1950s England and ends up in 1740-something, in Scotland, with the Scottish highlander rebellion. So it’s historically accurate in terms of the rebellion and the kings. And the way the stories unfold into books four and five, we end up with a bit more time travel back and forth, but they end up in Boston, pre-American Revolution, so that’s interesting, too. But all of what you’re saying there, Austin, about that mining the past, the archaeological piece, it’s gonna be fascinating how we see that come through in arts and culture, in addition to dealing with ‘goat gods’, etc., in the mainstream.
AC: Maybe it’s digging our way out of the past that we’re buried under. You know, there’s a lot of rubble from the 20th century.
KS: Yes.
AC: Outlander sounds really interesting. Kait and I are always looking for good shows.
KS: Oh, my gosh, totally. It’s on Netflix, too. Seasons one and two are on Netflix. They’re on Netflix in Canada. So I can’t imagine why they wouldn’t be on Netflix in the US.
AC: Okay, nice. Yeah, we get one Game of Thrones episode a week.
KS: Yeah, cuz it’s coming through real-time right now, cuz the new season is out.
AC: I would also say, almost guaranteed that whatever’s going on in Game of Thrones—whatever episode comes out around the eclipse is totally going to look like a solar eclipse, right?
CB: Yeah.
AC: Game of Thrones has lined up with a lot of astrology, as anything that really represents the zeitgeist does accidentally. Also, probably one of the biggest fights, most promoted fights in years, in decades—Conor McGregor versus Floyd Mayweather—is right after the solar eclipse, and it’s the most hyped thing ever. And people are criticizing it for being overhyped, but they’re still talking about it constantly in public. For anybody who’s interested in combat sports, it’s a huge thing, either to love or to hate. It’s a huge thing and it makes perfect sense that it’s arriving right after the Leo eclipse.
CB: I mean, that’s a good example of something where, for one person, it’s gonna be a huge defeat, and for the other person, it’s gonna be a huge victory. People can sometimes have those two extremes when it comes to eclipses, depending on how it’s hitting their chart. But either way, it ends up being a huge turning point in their life one way or another.
AC: Right. If you have somebody who has an enemy, and that conflict is decided in favor of one or another under the same configuration, that’s a ‘victory’ story for one person and a crushing defeat. Like you don’t get a martial victory without martial defeat. There’s a contest. So we can’t say that one configuration in general will mean only ‘defeat’ stories or only ‘victory’ stories if Mars is involved. Like there are ‘Jupiterian’ victories where everybody wins.
KS: Yeah. This eclipse is not that.
AC: No, I don’t expect it to be.
CB: Yeah. I mean, ironically, this is an eclipse that takes place with Mars—in such close proximity—that it becomes one of the main things really coloring it in many ways.
AC: In a Mars-ruled decan.
KS: The contest.
CB: Right.
KS: Yeah. And I had seen an argument on Facebook about Mars having potentially more dignity in this part of Leo. I didn’t necessarily agree with the argument, but Mars has a bit of strength, I guess.
AC: Mars will be involved, right?
KS: Mars’ terms at the very end.
AC: Yeah, which should be a factor, especially with Mercury coming back to meet up with Mars on the degree of the eclipse, emphasizing Mars yet again. Yeah, there’s actually—let me see if I can get it. There’s kind of a hilarious Mars decan 3 image from the Yavanajataka image, that also speaks to issues of rulership and kingship. Let me just throw that up there. Well, this is interesting. So there’s some of it that’s irrelevant, but it’s: “A woman whose actions are marvellous and who is cunning in respect to machines and undertakings involving the arts, businesses or jewels.” Here’s the part that pinged me about this when we were talking about Game of Thrones: “Seated on an ivory throne, she considers the murder of her enemies.”
KS: Wow.
CB: That’s the decan for late Leo?
AC: Yeah, Leo 3 from the Yavanajataka. I believe that’s the Pingree translation.
CB: Nice.
AC: So that’s Cersei, right?
KS: Right.
AC: Seated on a throne, she considers the murder of her enemies.
CB: Have we what?
AC: I don’t know if she is ‘cunning in respect to machines’, but actually that’s fair.
KS: Have you guys read the books? Cuz I read all the books of Game of Thrones, because I’m a massive book nerd. Is the TV series sticking quite closely to the books?
AC: Mostly. It is beyond it now.
CB: Yeah.
AC: You could not have read what has been happening.
KS: Okay, got it, got it.
CB: Cuz he’s not getting the books out.
KS: He’s very slow.
CB: Right. But they’re starting to merge some timelines. So it’s like some of the main points are there, but they’re taking what were two different stories and condensing them into one. Or shortening things, cuz they’ve only got like 10 or 13 episodes left.
KS: Same thing is happening in Outlander. Diana Gabaldon, the Outlander author, and George RR Martin are very good friends in real life. Yeah, the same thing where they have to condense. They’re keeping the key pivot points in the story, but obviously can’t put a thousand pages or whatever into 13 episodes.
AC: So we should go, probably.
CB: Sure.
AC: But I would say what they excised from the books, Kelly, in the show, is the gratuitous descriptions of food.
KS: Oh.
AC: There are no longer paragraphs-worth of text about the flavor and texture of Dornish peppers.
KS: George RR Martin is pretty wordy when it comes to that.
AC: Yeah. A friend of mine made that joke and sort of half believes that the character Hot Pie is George Martin inserting himself into the story. Cuz Hot Pie is just like, “Oh, let me tell you about exactly how I made the crust for this.” It’s the only place where you see that food detail.
KS: Oh, my gosh.
AC: It’s a little mean maybe, but I’m not sure it’s entirely wrong.
KS: It’s probably not. It’s probably not. This has been great, guys.
AC: Yeah.
CB: Yeah, this was a lot of fun. So this is our second livestream. So this is working out relatively well, and I think we’ll continue doing this and making this a regular thing from now on. So we streamed it through my private Facebook page, but I’m still toying with that to see what the best setup is, so that people can subscribe and follow us in the future. Of course if you want future announcements about the show, you should subscribe to the podcast at theastrologypodcast.com/subscribe. And patrons of the show of course always get a heads-up and also get a private link to join us in the Zoom webinar when we’re doing these episodes live rather than just on Facebook. Yeah, so I think we’ll do this again next month.
KS: Which is like a pre-show ticket, too, right? That link is to the pre-show chat. We can’t guarantee what will be part of it, but you will get it.
CB: Yeah, you get to see us scrambling ahead of time to get it together and get ready to do the episode. So I guess we’ll do this again next month. And we’ll basically do the next episode right after or not too long after the eclipse. So hopefully, whatever that was about is over, and we have something interesting to talk about. Well, I’m sure we’ll have something interesting to talk about, but we’ll see what that is.
KS: I’m the ‘Jupiter’ speaker for September. We can talk about that.
AC: Yeah, that would be nice. But to be fair, according to traditional texts, solar eclipses get six months to deliver what they have promised, right?
CB: Yeah, yeah. And that’s gonna be playing out over sometime. And then of course we have the fact that it’s a series of eclipses that’ll keep taking place in Leo and Aquarius for even longer than that. So we are buckling in, and we’re ready for quite the ride over the next year or so.
KS: Totally.
CB: All right, cool.
AC: Strap in.
CB: Well, thanks everyone for joining me today. Thanks to everyone following the livestream on Facebook. If you enjoyed this, let us know, and we’ll keep doing it in the future. If you’re a fan of the podcast, always consider becoming a patron of the show. We do one episode each week. Basically, the way I have this structured at this point is it’s like attending a local astrology lecture, where normally you would pay like $10 to attend a lecture from a famous astrologer and hear them present some topic. Basically, that’s what I’m doing with the podcast at this point, and there are patrons of the show who pay a dollar or five dollars or ten dollars voluntarily in order to support this work. And then I try to take some of that money and invest it in buying microphones for the guests or sending out headphones and other stuff like that to continue to improve and expand what we’re doing with the show, so consider becoming a patron. If you’re listening to us through iTunes, then consider giving us a good rating on iTunes, since that’ll help other people to find the show. And definitely check out the websites of Austin and Kelly and myself for more information about our consultations and classes and other things that we’re offering in the field of astrology. So, Austin, your website is austincoppock.com. And, Kelly, yours is kellysastrology.com, right?
KS: Yeah.
CB: Perfect. And you can find out more information about me at chrisbrennanastrologer.com. So I think that’s it for today. So thanks everyone for listening, and we’ll see you next time.
AC: Bye.
KS: Bye.