The Astrology Podcast

Transcript of Episode 265, titled:

August 2020 Astrology Forecast

With Chris Brennan, Austin Coppock, and Kelly Surtees

Episode originally released on July 30, 2020

Original episode URL:

https://theastrologypodcast.com/2020/07/30/august-2020-astrology-forecast/

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Note: This is a transcript of a spoken word podcast. If possible, we encourage you to listen to the audio or video version, since they include inflections that may not translate well when written out. Our transcripts are created by human transcribers, and the text may contain errors and differences from the spoken audio. If you find any errors then please send them to us by email: theastrologypodcast@gmail.com

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Transcribed by Teresa “Peri” Lardo

Transcription released July 13th, 2026

Copyright © 2026 TheAstrologyPodcast.com

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CHRIS BRENNAN: Hi, my name is Chris Brennan, and you’re listening to The Astrology Podcast. This episode was recorded on Wednesday, July 22nd, 2020, starting at 10:14 PM in Denver, Colorado. I’m not sure what episode of the show this will be, but we’re gonna be talking about the astrological forecast for August of 2020. Joining me today is Kelly Surtees and Austin Coppock. Hey guys; welcome back. 

AUSTIN COPPOCK: Hey, Chris. 

KELLY SURTEES: Hey. 

AC: Hey Kel. 

CB: So this month, we’re gonna do things a little differently. We’re gonna jump right into the forecast for August in the first hour of this episode. And then after the first hour, we’re gonna transition into talking about some miscellaneous topics, including the birth chart of Walter Mercado and the Netflix documentary that was recently released about his life and his work. 

All right, guys. Let’s jump right into it. I wanted to start first with a little overview of the month, and with usually I just show the still image of the planetary movements for the month, which is the diagram and poster made by Paula Belluomini. But this month, Hugh Tran animated that for us. And so this shows where the planets will start at the beginning of the month at the top of August. We get a lunation, a Full Moon, there in Aquarius right at the top of the month. All the planets are moving through their various signs – Mars through Aries, Venus through Gemini, eventually into Cancer. Mercury and the Sun going through Leo, of course, and then eventually there is a New Moon in Leo. So this just kind of gives you an overview of where the planets will be moving in terms of the signs and what the focus is gonna be that we’re gonna focus on for most of this month. So pretty cool way to visualize things. 

The other thing I wanted to show is just the planetary – what we call the planetary alignments calendar for the month, which shows the major ingresses. So we’ve got a Full Moon on the 3rd of August. Mercury goes into Leo on the 4th. Venus into Cancer on the 7th. Uranus stations retrograde in Taurus at 10 degrees of Taurus on the 15th of August. We have a Sun-Mercury conjunction on the 17th, a New Moon in Leo on the 18th. Mercury moves into Virgo on the 19th. And then finally the Sun moves into Virgo on the 22nd of August. And that’s sort of the quick overview of the astrology for the month. 

What are the main themes, though? Those are not actually the main alignments; those are more like some of the quick planetary transits that we’re gonna be going through this month. But what are the main signatures maybe that we should talk about that we’re gonna be dealing with this month? 

What do you think, Kelly? 

KS: Where do we start? I mean, it’s – I’m excited about the Sun in Leo and to see that unfold for a few weeks. But of course, Mars is gonna start making some of the more tense or square aspect patterns that it will be – Mars is making square aspects to Jupiter, to Pluto, and then to Saturn. Each one of those happening this month, and that’s kind of creating an energetic pattern – you know, a bit of a push-pull between Aries and Capricorn that’s gonna play out through the rest of the year. And of those three, I think the one that is catching my attention the most is Mars square Saturn, which isn’t exact until later in the month but will certainly be a mood for at least the second half of August and into September.

CB: Yeah, for sure. So we talked a lot at the end of June and beginning of July about Mars moving into Aries because then it’s moving into the next cardinal sign, and the last time it was in a cardinal sign was that pileup in Capricorn in February and March and almost into early April, which coincided with the pandemic and the lockdowns and everything else. And then when Mars went into Aries, we sort of expected a return to some of that and a reigniting of some of those tensions. But now this month, we’re actually finally getting into some of the exact aspects for the first time, which we didn’t have last month. Last month was just a build up.

AC: Yeah. And I would say honestly this month is mostly a build up as well. We do see Mars closing in on that square with Saturn, and under more normal skies, that would be the significant thing. But that is Mars closing in on a square with Saturn in anticipation of stationing retrograde in early September and basically hanging out in that square with Saturn for a month and a half. And so even though August shows that building, it is by no means – it’s not the finale; it’s not even the rising action of the second act. And so while that is brewing, we have – like Kelly said with the Sun in Leo, there are some, yeah, lighter in the sense that they’re not, you know, uranium-238 heavy sorts of configurations. And on the sliding scale of 2020, I think August will be easier than July and easier than September. That’s not to say objectively easy when held against every other month in every other year, but in terms of this year’s rhythm, there’s a little bit more give than there was and that there will be. 

CB: Yeah. The analogy I was thinking about for this month was when you, especially last month but going into this month, the idea of like, when you’re on a rollercoaster and you’re getting up to the top and it’s sort of like, bringing you up to the top of the first drop and then you get to the top of it. I feel like that’s kind of where we’re at this month in preparing for September and preparing for Mars to station retrograde in September and the intensification of that Mars transit and that square with the other planets. 

So I had — 

AC: I think that’s a good analogy. 

CB: You like the rollercoaster analogy? Okay. 

AC: Well, and I think that we’re just, once we get to that and then in many ways the release, which is a reversal of motion, right? In a rollercoaster, you’re going from up to down, and it’s not quite the same up to down, but with the Mars retrograde, we do have a release and a reversal of motion. And we are just gonna fly through September and October once that gets moving. And so I like that building tension into a headlong plunge, because I think that’s exactly what it’s gonna feel like. 

CB: Yeah. And in the diagrams, I had Kyle from Archetypal Explorer sent me over some diagrams again that show Mars making exact aspects with the outer planets Jupiter and Pluto and Saturn, which are all in Capricorn. And the peaks indicate when the aspect is exact. So here you can almost like, visualize that rollercoaster analogy, because last month we started building up to it, but this month we’re getting some of the first hits from first Mars squaring Jupiter, then Mars squaring Pluto, and then Mars squaring Saturn towards the end of the month. But then Mars stations in September and comes back and hits all three of those planets two more times. So whatever this exact aspect is about this month that happens in August, it’s just opening something up that’s the first phase in a sequence of three that’ll have a beginning and a middle and an end. 

So that’s a little tricky, a little problematic, a little tense in terms of the aspects for the astrological weather this month. 

KS: One other little piece that’s different from that is that at the top of the month, Mercury and Venus both change signs, leaving the signs that they had their recent retrograde in. So it’s not necessarily, you know, the main theme for August, but it is a – you know, in any other month, we’d probably give a lot of attention to the fact that Venus is finally leaving Gemini after four months, for instance, and Mercury’s leaving Cancer after a couple of months. So there’s definitely a mood shift with those two quicker moving planets early — 

CB: Yeah, I — 

KS: — in the month. 

CB: I love that. That’s a huge shift, just because they spent so much time – like, Venus has been in Gemini since, what? Like, early April? 

KS: Yeah. 

CB: Okay. And then we had, and then of course it’s been there ever since it stationed retrograde later in Gemini. When was that again? 

KS: Oh, mid-June? Mid to late June that it stationed direct? Venus? I think. 

CB: The direct station, okay. 

AC: Yeah, it was 26th. 

CB: I can actually bring this up. I tried to get my diagrams all ready today. So here is the alignments for August, July, okay. Well, I don’t have it all set up. But yeah, so basically, we’ve had two inner planets that usually zoom through their signs, but Venus has been hanging out in Gemini for like, three months now, and Mercury’s been hanging out in Cancer for a couple of months basically. 

KS: Yeah. So that’s just – I mean, Mercury in Cancer’s had to deal with some of the more difficult aspect configurations, so I’m not saying Mercury in Leo is perfect, but it gets a break from some of that heavier aspect configuration. 

CB: Yeah. I mean, that was kind of – Cancer season was kind of heavy this year due to the Mercury retrograde squaring Mars pretty much all of last month that we’re just gonna finally come out of in August and all of the different fires that we saw. I think my keyword for that last month was “fighting words,” and I think Austin, you said that was a good call on that one at one point? 

AC: Yeah, I think that one pulled its weight. And we were also in the midst of an eclipse season in July, so or for the, you know, first half of July. And so there was a lot of difficulty. It was one of the three difficulty spikes in the year, right? The first one being that March-April, that late June to the first half of July being the second. And then our third is coming in September, and that’s what I like about August is that it’s not September and it’s not July. You know, what Kelly said about Mercury in Leo, regardless of its individual virtues or vices, what it does is it takes Mercury out of configuration – out of hard aspect – to Saturn, Pluto, Mars — 

CB: Right. 

AC: — right? And — 

CB: Yeah. 

AC: — so that’s really the vice, right, and the planets that get caught in hard aspect to both of those at once are going to have a hard time and thereby bring us a hard time. So it’s nice to see planets not there, right? 

KS: Yeah. 

AC: And so when do we get that ingress? When does Mercury ingress into Leo? 

KS: I think it’s around Tuesday, August 4th. 

CB: Yeah. There it is. And it has to make that — 

KS: It’s pretty early. Yeah. 

CB: It has to make that same aspect that the Sun was making on the way out of Cancer, which is that opposition to Saturn, which was rough. The New Moon in Cancer that just happened here in July a few days ago was at 28 degrees of Cancer exactly opposite to Saturn, which was kind of a downer as a New Moon lunation. 

AC: It was. 

KS: It wasn’t happy times, no. 

CB: Yeah. One of the stories that somebody sent me in the news for that that a student sent to me was in Portland in some of the protests, there was a wall of moms. Did you see that? 

KS: Yeah. 

CB: In the news? 

KS: It’s very symbolic, yeah. Protecting — 

CB: Yeah. 

KS: — the protestors. 

CB: Yeah. It was like, a wall of I don’t know, people’s mothers that got together in order to like, protect the protesters or something like that. Interesting symbolism in terms of the Sun and Moon meeting up at 28 degrees of Cancer and opposing Saturn at 28 degrees of Capricorn. 

AC: Yeah. It’s a good one. 

KS: Yeah. So Mercury just has to get through that, and then it’s free, as you say, Austin, because it is – that’s one of the great things about planets in Leo at the moment is they don’t have to deal with the cardinal crush, if you like, of Mars in Aries and Saturn and Pluto in Capricorn, which is just a nice change of vibe, I think. 

AC: Yeah. Well, it’s more constructive, right? When – and so, you know, we’ve had this situation for a lot of 2020 and we’ve got a little bit more to go where the malefics are really stacked up. You know, what that looks like here on earth is problems all concentrated and entangled so that it’s difficult to solve things because it’s never one thing at a time. Right? It’s like, you know, this problem is tied up with that problem, et cetera, et cetera. Right? And that’s what malefics when they’re piled up or configured tightly as we’re coming up on do. And so just having planets that are outside of that gives us a place to work from that is not right in the middle of things. And so we get that for a little while in August, and I think most importantly, we have for the first two-thirds of the month we have the Sun in Leo, which is also outside of that. It makes the entire time that the Sun’s in Leo, it has a trine relationship to Mars in Aries. And even though that is a configuration, so it connects with that fierce firepower of Mars in Aries, it’s doing so from a relatively harmonious angle. It’s like, oh, how can we use this fire? How can we harness this, et cetera, et cetera? And in addition to that, while the Sun is in Leo, it’s in its own sign. And so it’s strong and will tend towards the positive. And with the slim pickings that 2020 skies provide, I feel like it’s really important to figure out where the workable windows are. Right? And “workable” is not the same thing as a buffet of utopias spread out before us, right, but there are more and less workable times, and when things are getting pinched like they are, I do my best to try to find, you know, what bits of terrain are a little bit easier to I can maybe push ahead and get some things done rather than just trying to keep up. 

CB: Yeah, definitely. And look at this – it looks like Mercury actually catches up with the Sun and conjoins it and forms the exact cazimi right around the same time that both of them are profecting the trine with Mars from 24 Leo to about 24 Aries. 

KS: Yeah, that happens around August 16, August 17. I thought that was really interesting that Mercury’s right there with the Sun as that trine angle forms, because that does feel like, you know, to pick up on what you were saying, Austin, both the Sun and Mars are in domicile. They’re in signs that they rule. And they’re connecting by a trine aspect, so there’s some sort of energy or drive or fuel that can be directed towards perhaps progress or movement at the very least. I know Mars is, you know, slowing down; it’s already starting to get the touch from Saturn there, but it’s like, I don’t know, there’s something in that about just getting a boost from the Sun before Mars really goes into his September stuff. 

CB: Yeah, definitely. And that’s actually the — 

AC: Yeah, and — 

CB: We take advantage of that in the electional chart that we use this month. I don’t know if it’s too early to introduce that, but it’s like, a Sun in Leo election. 

KS: Well, that makes sense to do a Sun in Leo election this month! 

CB: Yeah, exactly. 

KS: Totally. Yeah. 

CB: But what were you saying, Austin? 

AC: Oh, I was just gonna say, you know, in terms of what sort of benefit might be gained from the Sun in Leo trine Mars in Aries, in a lot of traditional texts, the Sun is likened to the sovereign of a nation, realm, et cetera. And Mars is the head of the army, right? And the, you know, generally speaking, you don’t want the army off just doing whatever it wants, right? And the Mars benefits from the Sun’s centering ability. And so if we are each and every one of us a sovereign realm, we want our capacity for fierce action – Mars – to be connected to center, right? Which is the Sun. Right? Our capacity to see as the Sun illuminates, and not only is the Sun in the center, the Sun also anchors and holds the rest of the solar system. There’s a lot of that both physical reality as well as symbolic and metaphysical layers of the ability to hold center with the Sun. And with a Mars that strong, we can certainly use all of the centering and making sure that our actions and our martial moods are connected to what we are intentionally trying to do when coming from our center. And I might even say heart-centered, as the Sun also rules the heart, right? Holding both the thoughts and the feelings. 

CB: Yeah. I like that, and that’s actually probably is a good segue then to mention the election this month just to get it out of the way since that’s a beautiful – a large part of what we try to center in the election this month. So our auspicious electional chart which was picked out by Leisa Schaim is set for August 13th, 2020, at about 6:25 AM, just after sunrise basically. So just take this chart data, enter it into your program for August 13th, put in about 6:25 AM, and then set the location to whatever your city is. And then just adjust it so the Ascendant is at about 23 degrees of Leo, and you’ll end up with a chart that’s set for just after sunrise. 

So this chart has 23 Leo rising with the Sun and Mercury in Leo in the first whole sign house just above the degree of the Ascendant. So it’s really focusing by making the Sun the ruler of the Ascendant and having the Sun in its own sign or in its own domicile and not afflicted by hard aspects from Mars and Saturn. Just trying to get the most out of that as a solar election as we possibly can. What kind of things do you guys think of when you think about a Leo election or a solar election like this? I know you were just talking about like, kings and monarchs, Austin, but aside from trying to crown or declare oneself royalty or something like that, what else could we use this for? 

AC: Well, I would say that whenever we make a decision about what we’re doing with our lives and how we’re gonna do this, we are acting as sovereign, right? We’re like, “Nope!” You know, when we decree that like, “You know what? I’m going to do this; we’re going to -” you know, whatever a person’s realm includes, that’s always royal. Right? And that this is good for like, “I’m going to do this!” You know, the strongest house in this election by far is first house, so it’s very “what am I doing?” Right? So I mean, like a lot of things, it’d probably be good for a fitness regimen, and that could be push-ups and diet and stuff. That could also be – and I feel like we don’t talk enough about a mental or emotional fitness regimen. Like, you know, maybe you’re doing that 50 push-ups a day, but are you doing the 20 minutes of meditation, or whatever else the – whatever mental, emotional fitness looks like, because… You know, this world is just as hard on the mind as it is on the body. And I think we’re more familiar and tend to think of staying healthy in primarily physical terms, and certainly those are useful, but a regimen of mental-emotional training is just as useful if not more. 

CB: For sure. Yeah. So this centers that and centers the Sun as a Leo or as a solar election. We have the Moon up in Gemini in the 11th whole sign house in the place of friends. It’s actually applying to a sextile with Mercury with reception. So there’s a little bit of — 

KS: Yeah, I really liked that little piece, the Mercury-Moon sextile there. I thought, you know, I wanna do this thing; it made me think about a writing project or the mental health piece that you were referencing, Austin, whether it was a journal writing practice or creative writing practice or just something about expressing oneself but using words or language to do that. 

CB: Yeah, that’s one of the placements I’m always jealous of of friends that have a Gemini Moon. Either in being good writers or in some instances good translators. 

KS: Yes. 

CB: I don’t – yeah. They’re — 

AC: You do pay the price, speaking as a Gemini Moon native. You do pay for that with being, you know, a neurotic mess. 

CB: Sure. You know, there’s pros and cons! 

KS: There’s definitely a pros and cons to it! For sure. But that’s — 

AC: But that Moon — 

KS: — yeah, I like that. 

AC: — is not – I was just gonna say the Moon is not just in Gemini. It also is conjunct within about a degree Aldebaran, which is one of the four royal stars. And it provides a lot of strength. And in particular, I would say I think of Aldebaran primarily in terms of sort of bulldozer strength. Like, there’s a little bit of raw power, but it’s to move heavy things around. You know, to plow and to reshape what is heavy. So you know, that doesn’t hurt at all here.

CB: Sure. Yeah. So let’s see, we picked the times partially to make it in our location so that the Midheaven was at about 16 degrees of Taurus where it was within three degrees of a trine with Jupiter in order to help Jupiter out of that 6th house position. That’s gonna be very dependent based on what your location is and what city you’re doing this from, but I would just say try to adjust the chart and set it so somewhere in the last nine degrees of Leo are rising. So just after sunrise. And then try to put the Midheaven so that it’s either trining Jupiter or making a sextile in some locations to Venus. Because that’s one thing you’ll always wanna do in any election is try to mitigate planets that are in difficult houses by making them closely configured to the degree of the Midheaven or the degree of the Ascendant. 

So the problematic part of this chart is Mars in the 9th house, and there are some mitigations because it’s in its own domicile and everything else, but it might not be a great chart for let’s say like, foreign travel or education or other 9th house topics like that due to the potential for conflict or strife. But you know, depending on how your chart’s set up, I guess it just depends on how you match this with your own nativity and what you’re trying to accomplish. 

So — 

AC: Yeah, I would keep it on first house topics. 

CB: Yeah. First house or maybe 11th house topics with the Moon — 

AC: Yeah. 

CB: — there — 

AC: I think 11th — 

CB: — with Mercury. 

AC: — would work, too. 

CB: One of the things that’s funny this month about trying to do like, Leo elections and one of the things that we’ll have to deal with in talking about the transits is we set it for a little later, for the middle of the month, because by that point, Mercury and the Sun have cleared Uranus. And that’s kind of a different energy now when the Sun and Mercury are going through Leo is they’ve gotta make it through that square with Uranus, which can be a little bit destabilizing, especially when it’s exact or especially when it’s still applying. So that’s something we might wanna look into the dates of, just in terms of where that happens during the course of the month for surprises. 

Anyway, that’s the electional chart for this month. We’ve got three other elections in the Auspicious Elections Podcast which we’re gonna release sometime next week. So you can sign up for our page on Patreon in order to get access to that later this month. 

All right. 

KS: If you wanna start at the top of the month, the Uranus aspects are a great segue into that! 

AC: Indeed. 

CB: Yeah, let’s do it. So let’s back up back to the top of the month to go through more chronological now that we’ve touched on some of the major themes. 

Okay. Uranus aspects. You’re right, so we literally we open with a major Uranus aspect, which is the Sun on the very first day of August starts out at 10 degrees of Leo and it’s exactly squaring Uranus at 10 degrees of Taurus. And that’s a sensitive set of degrees this month, because that’s the same degree Uranus is slowing down already at this point and is gonna station mid-month at 10 degrees of Taurus. And this is the furthest into Taurus that it’s ever gotten. So it’s really treading new ground at this point. 

AC: Well, and let’s click it forward two more days, because then we have a Full Moon where the Sun and the Moon are almost exactly perpendicular to that Uranus. And so there’s the Sun’s exact aspect to Uranus, but we’re really gonna see – we’re going to both see and feel Uranus at full strength when we have the lunation configured to it. And that’s just August 3rd. But that’s building from the end of July into the first couple days of August, and climaxing with that Full Moon on August 3rd where both the Sun and the Moon are looking right at Uranus, and in a tense, activating set of squares with Uranus. 

CB: Yeah. Really great point. So this is August 3rd, Full Moon at 11 degrees of Aquarius, and that’s squaring Uranus at 10 degrees of Taurus. And look at all the aspects that are going exact around this time, though, because that’s not even the only ones. We’ve got Mars coming into its first square of the month at this time from 19 degrees of Aries squaring Jupiter at 19 degrees of Capricorn, and then we have Mercury on this day perfecting its opposition as it’s on its way out of Cancer. At 27 degrees of Cancer, it is opposing Saturn. So there’s like, three at least signatures there for our first lunation of the month, which is a Full Moon in Aquarius. 

KS: It’s a very busy, you know, in terms of the aspects and the intensity that’s happening. You know, very busy start to the month. August 1st, Mercury makes the opposition to Pluto. So really from the 1st right through to the 4th once Mars clears the square to Jupiter, there’s just a number of aspects happening all at the same time. And that Full Moon is definitely worth focusing on, because it’s got that quality of maybe surprise or unexpected or shock or chaos. You know, a Full Moon has a revelatory kind of things coming out or things being illuminated, that drama if you like, that celestial kind of drama signature. And that seems amplified this month with the square to Uranus. 

CB: Right. So it’s like a — 

AC: Well, it’s also – oh, go ahead. 

CB: It’s like a culmination of events, but it’s something unexpected because it’s a square to Uranus or unexpected or destabilizing. 

AC: Yeah. And there might be some nice surprises, too. You know, Uranus likes to change things up. I actually found out that there are some things I didn’t know if they were gonna happen that are gonna happen right around this time that are good. You know, Uranus is not a malefic; it’s not a benefic. It’s sort of whatever you weren’t prepared for is Uranus’s favorite flavor to serve. And so it’s definitely, you know, one of the things that Uranus does, even if you’re not sure whether that volatility’s gonna be a flip towards good fortune or ill fortune for you, is that it does tend to reset the tone. Right? There’s a little bit of an etch-a-sketch shake in terms of the story you’re projecting onto your weeks. You’re like, “Oh, I’m doing this and this,” and it’s like, “Oh, actually we’re doing this now.” And so it’s interesting to have that at the beginning of the month. 

KS: Yeah. Like a quick change —

AC: And I don’t entirely mind it. 

KS: — shift in focus kind of thing. 

AC: Yeah. Uranus does a little bit of a like, “Hey, pay attention to this!” You’re like, “What? I wasn’t thinking about that; I was so focused on whatever had inertia coming into this moment.”

KS: Yeah. I always liked – and that’s reminding me, you know, that idea of Uranus as like, the shock or the jumpstart of something. And I’m always intrigued about how Uranus shows up when we’ve got Uranus in a fixed sign, because it does seem to have a little bit more of that twist or that sudden kind of thing. You know, fixed signs are less inclined to perhaps see something coming, and it may be a little bit more inclined to be like, “Oh, right, do that,” whereas, you know, when Uranus was in a mutable sign, for instance, there’s that flexibility kind of in-built into that fabric, so there’s sort of a different tone of that sudden stop-start where it can feel jerky, but I like that point that you make, Austin, where it can be exciting or fun even if it still catches you by surprise.

CB: Yeah. The nature of the change is also more permanent in fixed signs. If you’re gonna change something once, then the change ends up usually like, sticking a little bit more. 

AC: Yeah, there’s that. You can also see it as Uranus operating on and affecting matters that are usually fixed. Right? It’s the stubborn that Uranus is taking the cattle prod to. 

KS: Yes. 

AC: Like Kelly said, in a mutable sign, for example, Uranus is trying to get things to change that are in flux anyway. Or when it was in Aries up until about two years ago, right, it was like, “Hey, get moving” to a sign that was happy to get moving. Whereas in Taurus, Uranus is shocking, disrupting, jostling, jingling, etch-a-sketch shaking things which tend to stay the same. And we see that historically, right, with the changes in food production which we’ve seen during previous installments of Uranus in Taurus, both in terms of the Dust Bowl last time as well as things like potato chips being invented. You know, food, although there is a, I don’t know, there’s a sort of cultural push towards constant change in everything, a lot of food has stayed pretty similar for a long time. Like, people been eating rice and potatoes and wheat and meat for a very long time. And so these are the types of areas that we don’t expect to see changes, but that’s exactly what Uranus has been doing. Right? Like, the radical back to gardening because people were stuck at home. Right? Like, we have this sort of fixed thing – cultivating plants – which most people did for most of recorded history, that’s suddenly taken on this shocking revolutionary, revelatory thing. Like, “Oh my god, I grew a plant!” You know, how many people have had that — 

KS: Yeah. 

AC: — experience already this year? 

CB: Yeah. 

KS: Or people have baked bread from scratch that have not normally done that. 

CB: It’s also the first time just getting to 10 degrees. Sometimes — 

KS: Oh yeah. 

CB: — we think of transits like, that if it goes over a specific degree in your chart, like let’s say you have planets at eight or nine degrees of a fixed sign, and it’s making a square or hard aspect to that, we sometimes think of it like, the even should coincide with the exact hit. But instead, sometimes what happens is it’s not until you get a station that’s close to one of those degrees and you get an intensification of the outer planet slowing down and changing directions or really grinding over a series of degrees that you really start to see the events or the changes associated with that transit. So some people that have fixed sign placements around 10 degrees, maybe a degree or two before or a degree or two after, this is gonna be the first time maybe that they really get the intensity of that Uranus transit for the first time. 

KS: That’s a really great point, Chris. I’m glad you came back to that, because I think the 10-degree marker of Uranus, it is important for all of us – you know, unless we’re in our mid-80s, this is the first time for all of us where we’ve had Uranus come to the end of that first third of Taurus. And I think the Full Moon, if you are someone who has planets around 10 degrees of any of the fixed signs, you are really sinking into that sort of first activation, even though it’s like a station version of Uranus. But the Full Moon can really activate those longer-running transits as well, because once Uranus retrogrades mid-month, it’ll just backtrack into nine and eight and seven and six, you know, of Taurus. It’ll station direct at six Taurus in January of next year. So it is just really intensifying one specific part of Taurus at the moment. 

CB: Right. For sure. That’s a really good point. So even that lunation, because it’s happening around those degrees, could really bring light to and put the focus on whatever planets anybody has around 10 degrees of fixed signs. And then we just get Uranus stationing direct, what, a couple of weeks later – stationing retrograde a couple weeks later on August 13th, August 14th. 

KS: Totally. I think the Full Moon can bring some insight or perspective around what that Uranus transit might be for you if you do have planets around 10 but, you know, maybe nine as well, although it’s kind of been there before. Yeah. It’ll just get things moving, as Austin was saying before. 

CB: In the chat, Erin Shipley says, “My IC is at nine degrees” – nine degrees of – can I ask what sign, Erin? They say their IC’s at — 

KS: Taurus. 

CB: — nine degree, okay, of Taurus. 

KS: Yeah. 

CB: “And I had to leave the only place that’s ever really felt like home, put a deposit on the new place the day Uranus perfected on my IC, but moved to a super magical Venusian retreat.” That’s a great example of like, Uranus hitting the degree of the IC. 

KS: Yeah. And to pick up what Austin was saying earlier, Uranus gets things moving. And stuff in fixed signs tends to be very resistant to making a move, and then that’s why I think for – I remember when Uranus was in Aquarius years ago, and clients at that time seemed to have a little bit more of that, “Oh my god,” that classic kind of shock quality because Uranus in Aquarius was activating planets that just didn’t want to have to change until the very last minute. So there’s sort of a different quality, I think, of Uranus via modality. But certainly the Full Moon is going to pop things up for everybody. 

CB: For sure. 

KS: Yeah. 

CB: Totally. All right. So that’s in the beginning of the month. What else do we have early in the month that we need to hit in like, the first week of August that’s notable or important? 

AC: Well, we have the — 

KS: Just the sign — 

AC: — ingresses. 

KS: — changes. Yeah. Mercury out of two months of Cancer, drying out, moving into Leo, and then Venus finishing up four months in Gemini. That’s what I was thinking about with the Venus. Venus went into Gemini in early April, you know — 

CB: Right. 

KS: — when a lot of the pandemic stuff started and has been in Gemini ever since. You know, so that somehow to me feels like we’re getting a different Venus vibe, and how do we all, you know, feel or approach things differently with the ongoing pandemic situation. Because we’ve had the same Venus sign placement since the beginning almost. 

CB: Well, and what was weird — 

AC: Yeah. 

CB: — at least in the US that the Venus retrograde station at 21 Gemini was in mid-May. And that was when a lot of the states were opening up again and people were going out and starting to socialize again after being in for a few months, and you almost had the more extroverted nature of Gemini as a sign, versus this month Venus going into Cancer and some places starting to go into lockdown again or put mask orders again. And obviously, that’s just related to the United States since a lot of other countries – no? 

KS: It’s everywhere — 

CB: It’s everywhere? 

KS: Australia — 

CB: Okay. 

KS: — has had a huge other outbreak in Victoria and Melbourne. Actually, there’s been some really difficult stuff out of Melbourne. Cases spiking. Parts of Belgium and different places in Europe as well. So there are some graphs coming out showing, oh, for the places that did do well on the first kind of lockdown, now that everyone’s been moving out and around, and funnily enough at least here in Belgium, there’s talking about adding some restrictions starting the first week of August, which is really interesting with those planets changing signs. 

CB: Okay. 

AC: Yeah. I would personally hold the Mars square Saturn-Pluto-Jupiter accountable for that, but we definitely do see Venus as part of this story. I guess part of the sort of route I took in thinking about Venus was Venus is how we relate to and adapt emotionally to things. We’re like, “Okay, so what’s fun about this?” Right? Venus has several jobs, some of them significantly more serious. But a lot of it comes back to “How do I relate to this?” What’s a like, sustainable, useful way to relate to this? And Gemini is a mutable sign, and it’s a mutable air sign, right? And so things, the air changes direction very quickly. This way, that way, and air has to do with human communication and words and ideas and messages. And so we’ve been in this extended phase of trying to emotionally adapt or relate to a situation that’s this and then it’s that, and then it’s this, and then it’s that. Whereas moving into Cancer, right, Cancer is a water sign. We have that – water seeks not only the lowest level, but that’s also a form of stability. Right? The bottom of the cup is more stable than the rim. And so it’s like, okay, so if this is – and there’s pandemic and everything else – like, it’s a little bit of a like, settle in, how do we settle into the rest of 2020, to how things – to the things that we know are just gonna be this way for a while, even if we don’t know how long? Right? Cancer has to do with finding home. Like, what is going to be emotional home? Where are we going to be at the end of the day? And figuring that out and trying to make that as livable as possible is part of how I’m seeing that. 

CB: Yeah, for sure. In the chat, Leisa Schaim is making the point that the Venus retro square Neptune – that Venus stationed retrograde square Neptune, and it’s something we focused a lot in the forecast, and it seemed to in retrospect be a lot about the temporary illusion that we could all socialize widely again, which is a good point because that was, again, that was happening in mid-May when everybody was going out again and everyone was thinking we could return back to normal. And now things are back to like, closing down again, and because it’s not just Venus going into Cancer, but it’s Venus going into Cancer where it’s gonna start forming an opposition with Saturn as well as Pluto and the Saturn-Pluto conjunction basically. And Venus-Saturn oppositions tend to be much more standoffish rather than, like, relational, but tend to be more about creating boundaries or having distance or separation between people. 

AC: Yeah. Well, it’s Venus – and that’s not until the end of the month. But that’s pretty brutal. That’s sort of a taste of September because it’ll be Venus opposite Saturn-Pluto and square Mars. Right? So — 

CB: Right. 

AC: — both restrained by Saturn and Pluto and incensed by Mars. 

CB: Yeah. And I was just saying that that aspect begins as soon as Venus goes into that sign on the, what, looks like the 6th or the 7th here, the sign-based aspect at least. And then we get the more intense degree-based version later in the month. 

AC: Yeah, I guarantee – and sign-based aspects are real, but it’s gonna – in terms of our experience of it, it’s gonna feel, I don’t know, five to 12 times more intense when it’s perfect by degree and Venus is perfectly besieged between Saturn and Mars for a few days. Which is actually — 

CB: Yeah. 

AC: — the first couple days of September. 

KS: It’s early September, yeah. 

CB: Well, and it’s the same thing – we saw the same thing with the Mars ingress where obviously as soon as Mars went into Aries, like, stuff started changing again. And some of those numbers started going up again at the end of June. But we’re just building up to that at this point and building up to the exact aspects that are coming up this month and next month when Mars stations. 

KS: Yeah, and I think that that’s exactly it. As soon as Mars came into Aries, we did start to see some of the numbers in different places around the world starting to climb a little bit. Venus coming into a cardinal sign is just kind of further adding into that. It’s bringing to an end, if you like, that Venus in Gemini constant flitting about sort of piece. 

CB: Yeah. 

AC: Yeah. And some of that process of like, emotionally sinking in, which Cancer is about, it’s not gonna feel super good! You know, sometimes the end of uncertainty is a favorable outcome; you’re like, “Oh, I was so worried about it, and it was fine.” Right? That’s not gonna be the case. You know, it’s rough out there for planets in Cancer natally and otherwise right now, says the Cancer rising. 

KS: Yes! 

CB: Right. 

KS: Well, I think planets at the late degrees of the cardinal signs, of all four of the cardinal signs, are getting the squeeze. 

AC: Yeah. You know, that’s one of the ways that I sort of have the month architected in my head is what are the days when the Moon is in an exact T-square or is late cardinal, which is going to put it into conjunction or T-square or whatever with Mars-Saturn-Pluto, right? Because there is – and we’ve talked about this before, the anti-elections for the —

KS: Yes! 

AC: — month, right? Like, you just — 

KS: Yeah. 

AC: — keep the Moon away from late cardinal. Right? It doesn’t mean don’t get out of bed, but it does mean, you know, don’t release what you hope will be your best-selling book to the world. 

KS: On those degrees. Yeah. 

CB: Yeah. For sure. 

KS: So that’s kind of the first week. There’s a lot happening. 

CB: Yeah. So it starts off pretty much right out of the gate. 

AC: Right. So we get Venus into Cancer, where Venus gets to feel sad about the way the world is. 

CB: Venus into Cancer. 

AC: Sad but certain. 

CB: Yeah. Hopefully — 

AC: And we’ve got that Mercury. But what’s good, you know, is that we have at the same time we have that – or virtually the same time – we have the Mercury in Leo. And so Venus’s extended time in Gemini being a Mercury-ruled sign really put Venus, our sort of emotional, “how do we feel about this, how do we relate to this” at the mercy of whatever Mercury was doing. Right? Mercury was like, “Hey! I heard things are gonna be fine!” Venus is like, “Oh, this is great.” Mercury is like, “Oh, I heard nothing is ever gonna be okay again!” And Venus is like, “Oh, I feel terrible.” Right? When you have Venus in a Mercury-ruled sign, then whatever news Mercury is delivering Venus is responding to. But now once Mercury is in Leo, that’s a much steadier point of view. And Venus is not linked to Mercury anymore. And so Mercury kind of gets to Mercury while Venus Venuses. There’s a little bit of what I think may be a somewhat useful separation between thoughts and feelings, right, that as a lifetime policy is not useful, but as a little separation for clarity before recombination can be very helpful. 

CB: Yeah. I’m just glad that Mercury’s not gonna be squaring Mars all month again, and hopefully getting away from some of the polemics and some of the not just emotionally-based arguments, but sometimes just people going at each other really strongly or exchanging words in such a strong way, and it feels lighter this month. I’m trying to balance how Mercury getting free of the square with Mars and opposition with Saturn feels lighter on the one hand versus Mars still coming up and starting to square some of those planets exactly – like, to a lesser extent, Mars squaring Jupiter, but then later like, the Mars-Pluto square and the Mars-Saturn square later in the month. 

How are you — 

AC: Right. And those, I think that – I was thinking about that as well, because we really do have these lighter and brighter elements to the month. And then we have the ol’ like, Mars-Saturn-Pluto — 

CB: Right. 

AC: — gearing up again. And I think it’s really gonna depend on the Moon. Right? Like, on those days – roughly like, 2nd, 9th, 16th, 22nd, 27th. Basically one day a week, roughly, where we’ve got the Moon configured to that Mars-Saturn-Pluto — 

CB: Right. 

AC: — it’s gonna feel exactly like that. And then other days, it’s not going to feel like that. And we’re gonna have sort of a back-and-forth, right? And that makes sense, because as I’ve said, this is an easier month than July and an easier month than September, but that doesn’t make it an easy month. And so and if we just look around us, right, there’s like, you know, there’s sort of like, okay, we’re still in this, and oh god, where’s this going? Right? Moon configured to Mars-Saturn. And then we have other days where it’s like, oh, you know, I can actually do this despite the world. And that’ll be the configurations to the Sun or some of the lighter things. And I think it’s gonna be a little bit of a back-and-forth between areas that are workable and areas where it’s just, you know, it is what it is and we gotta do what we gotta do. 

KS: Yeah. I like the Mercury piece, because one thing I’ve been thinking about, yeah, like, the difference of Mercury getting out of Cancer versus the Mars-Saturn-Pluto stuff obviously building. With Mercury moving out of Cancer, if we think Mercury is the symbol of the mind or communication, it’s just bringing that piece out of that pressure pot, if you like. So it can give a, you know, from a personal perspective, it’s like, you can focus on something other than that. Or we could think about Mercury in a water sign being kind of, you know, so wet, it’s got so much emotion and feeling that maybe it loses a level of its clarity or its logic or its nuance. And the drying out quality of a planet moving from a water sign to a fire sign, that dry thing can bring some clarity or some sense of, I don’t know, specificity. You know, we talked a little bit about this idea of Mars moving out of Pisces and into Aries and the idea that becomes about something rather than overwhelmed by everything. And I think there’s a level of that with Mercury coming out of Cancer. 

AC: Yeah, that’s a really good point. And that’s an elemental thing. Water connects and combines — 

KS: Yeah. 

AC: — and generally, we like connection and combination. You know, that’s very good for life in general. We are, you know, all god’s creatures are juicy to some degree. But sometimes you need to separate things, right, in order to see like, what are all of these things that fell into my soup? Because my soup is no longer – everything just kind of got – a new thing got tossed in there every day for about a month, and it’s not tasting very good. Like, let’s maybe sort this out and dry this out. 

KS: Yeah. 

AC: And maybe put some of them back in the soup and, you know, throw some of them on the compost pile. Or in the bin. 

KS: Yeah. That’s a really – kicking it off there with the analogies as always, Austin. The idea that there’s too much – there’s been too much in our mental soup, I think, is the key with Mercury there. And yeah, sometimes to understand a complex situation, you have to pull it apart and see the pieces and understand each piece to get a sense of how they combine. And yeah, in the kitchen that’s a really great way to understand that you may not want, I don’t know, cinnamon and oregano in the same dish because, you know, they’re both really flavorful spices, but cinnamon can go with chili and oregano can go with rosemary, but I don’t know, the cinnamon and the oregano together – can be a bit of a weird combo. 

AC: Yeah, I don’t know about cinnamon in chili. I know that that is a fairly widespread sin, but — 

KS: Oh! 

AC: — not one of my vices. 

KS: You’re gonna come at me now for this! I love this! 

AC: I’m just, you know, I’m just letting you know. 

KS: You’re not into it! 

AC: It’s not what the Lord wants, Kelly. 

KS: Oh, look, we’re gonna have to take this debate off-camera I think! 

CB: Yeah, let’s try to keep it clean here with the spice debates. 

So we talked about the first week; we’re getting into the second week. When it gets to the second week, it looks like the Uranus station is our major thing, or it’s our only like, major major thing, right? But that’s kind of a continuation of the lunation, because the lunation was already squaring Uranus, so the station itself was already building up at that point and is just at the same degree. We already touched on – go ahead. 

AC: Well, we have the Uranus station and Mercury’s exact conjunction with the Sun are within a day of each other. So that’s really a kind of a nice — 

KS: Yeah, mid-month. 

AC: — double whammy. Yeah, right – 15th, 16th. And so, you know, the conjunction of Mercury to the Sun is the completion of the process of combustion. Right? Combustion, when a planet gets too close to the Sun, you can’t see it because the brightness is overwhelming. And metaphorically, the planet is being – all of the sort of – you know, it’s getting roasted. But in a good way where it burns off all of the dross that’s accumulated. With Mercury, it’s burning away – this happens several times a year with Mercury, because with our thoughts we need to do this often, right? Like, all this stuff gets stuck to our thoughts, and we need to kind of burn all that away and start paying attention to now. And then, you know, and begin again rather than being, you know, how should we say getting stuck in the momentum of what was occupying my swiftly moving thoughts a month ago and the month before that? Like, thoughts need to be updated. And so our thinking needs to be updated especially, you know, during a time period where there are so many confusing pathways, some of which are dead ends. And so that’s actually useful. I like the Mercury-Sun there. And it’s a little special that it’s in the Sun’s sign. 

KS: Yeah. 

AC: And with the Sun, we’re looking at those things that are intentional, those pathways and actions that are intentionally chosen, right? The Sun is the selecting – you know, it sees and then chooses. It aims intentionally. You know, it’s, yeah. It’s an elective intelligence. And when there’s, during periods of time where there’s so much that is not within personal control, it can be very easy to forget what power you do have. And I think that that particular Sun-Mercury cazimi will be particularly useful for reminding people of that. And for reminding ourselves of that. 

CB: And maybe finding one’s own voice, which is a good Leo-type sort of signification in and of itself, but especially with Mercury in Leo. And our second lunation of the month is also in pretty close proximity to that; it looks like it’s on August 18th at 26 degrees of Leo. 

KS: Yeah, the New Moon is just the day after the Sun-Mercury cazimi or conjunction. So there’s a lot of activity August 16, 17, 18, and the New Moon – this is one of those New Moons that, I don’t know, you guys might take a different opinion, but I kind of feel like it’s a New Moon doing New Moon things, you know? There isn’t a hash aspect to it. The ruler of the lunation is the Sun itself, and so it really does have this feeling of some of the radiance and that idea of perhaps looking forward or clarifying focus, if you like, whether your mind is kind of clearly in the process or you may not be speaking it out to everyone, but it’s a sense of whether it’s kind of internal centering and focus or even that classical starting something fresh. But it feels like, you know, it’s a New Moon doing New Moon things.

CB: Yeah. It’s like, one of the only lunations we’ve seen in a little while that doesn’t have like, terrible hard aspects from other planets to it for some reason. 

KS: Yeah. So we’ll take it! 

AC: Yeah, they’re rare. But yeah, I think it does a nice job of gathering in whatever little perspective shift was gained from the Mercury-Sun conjunction just a day or two before it. And you know, the Sun-Moon conjunction, the New Moon, is the end of one lunar cycle and the beginning of another. It’s very much a time to think about “What am I gonna do? What’s this next phase of action?” Right? And it’s nice that it comes right off a little perspective clarification. 

CB: For sure. So immediately after that, basically the next day, because Mercury, of course, when it conjoins the Sun, is moving pretty fast, so it moves two degrees in the next like, 24 hours. And Mercury ingresses into Virgo by August 19th and returns to its home sign, where it’s gonna take relatively brisk trip through that sign over the next few weeks. It looks like the Sun, of course, also moves into Virgo a few days later on August 22nd. And it looks like this brings us to the much anticipated very first Mars-Saturn square, which goes exact around August 23rd or August 24th from 26 degrees of Aries to 26 degrees of Capricorn. Does that sound about right? 

KS: Yes. 

AC: It does. 

KS: Eastern time zone on the 24th. Yeah, the Sun-Mercury change into Virgo, that kind of just brings a bit more earth. You know, thinking back to that elemental shift, I don’t know – I mean, maybe I’m wishing hopefully here, but I’m like, a little bit of earth, coolness, maybe just calm things down a little bit. I like Mercury in Virgo just as a general vibe for maybe getting organized, focusing on details, sorting out some of the things that had maybe been a little bit messy or a little bit not organized, if you like. There’s more of a logical thought sort of thinking piece with Mercury in Virgo, so I think that’ll be something that, you know, can be helpful in a gentle way for a couple weeks. 

CB: Sure. Yeah. We will get at the very end of the month Mercury’s gonna hit the opposition with Neptune, which is a little nebulous, a little not clear in terms of Mercury’s attempt to communicate things clearly and honestly. It looks like that goes — 

KS: That’s always messy for Mercury to have to deal with Neptune. 

CB: Yeah. It’s one of the tricky things since Neptune’s been transiting for the past few years through Pisces is every year when we’re supposed to get this really grounded, analytical Mercury, it starts running into this opposition with Neptune, which is the exact opposite and is making things less clear and less straightforward, and yeah, is not detail-oriented, I don’t think, is probably at the very bottom of the list of like, significations I would ascribe to Neptune in Pisces. 

AC: Yeah. 

KS: Yeah. 

AC: Yeah. It kind of ruins some good electional situations. Because it’s just as Mercury opposes Neptune just as Mercury comes out – starts to become visible again, and that’ll be in the western sky just after sunset. 

CB: Right. 

AC: And so we like, you know, we like visibility for Mercury. And so just as it becomes visible as it perfects that opposition to Neptune. It’s interesting; we may see some like, prominent but muddled messages if we watch the news. 

But I do agree, Chris, that the, you know, it’s not unlikely that the first exact Mars-Saturn square may steal the headline. And you know, this is a kind of tricky one to draw a frame around, because if Mars was just chugging along as per usual, then it would make that square with Saturn and then it would just continue along its maybe not so merry way. But this is, Mars is going to be within a couple degrees of square with Saturn for the whole next month and into the first week of October. And so it’s really our new normal for the end of August up through the beginning of October is it’s Mars square Saturn all the time. And that’ll get emphasized and de-emphasized by the other planets around it. And it’s important to note that, like, those exact moments, but at the same time, that’s just gonna be happening for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks. And you know, don’t look at the calendar and say, “Ope! It happens that day, and then it’s over.” Right? It’s not — 

CB: Right. 

AC: — going anywhere. That’s when it introduces itself. That’s when that particular configuration knocks loudly at the door and says, “Hey, I’m moving in for six weeks. We are gonna be the best of friends!” 

CB: Yeah. And we — 

KS: Yeah. 

CB: — focused a lot on that in the yearly forecast and our previous forecasts, and one of the analogies I used with Mars and Saturn is like, trying to press your foot to the gas pedal in a car while pressing the brake pedal at the same time, and the sense of like, attempting to move forward but being stopped or being held back from something at the same time. And for a lot of people, that ended up being the lockdowns and people wanting to go out and live their lives or move around or what have you but literally being trapped or being stuck inside. And we get a return to a sort of peaking of some of the similar energies with Saturn in the superior position overcoming Mars, and therefore Saturn winning out to some extent or Saturn having the upper hand over Mars. 

AC: Not necessarily the stronger contestant, but having the higher ground. And likely not the moral high ground, but just the positional advantage. And so, you know, if we look at Saturn-Pluto, right, it’s all this big – it’s the way things are in the negative way, right? And the momentum behind the structures of society and there’s a plague, and Mars is super pissed about all of this and would like it to go fast and change fast. And this configuration, which is accruing, building, coalescing here, speaks to the tremendous frustration that all sorts of people have, many for different reasons, but it’s all gonna look and feel a lot like, “Goddammit, why can’t things change?” Like, there’s so much Mars energy. Like, “Can we just – ugh!” You know, hitting the Mars-Saturn wall. 

KS: Yeah, that feeling of the wall of kind of thwarted will, of wanting something — 

AC: Yeah. 

KS: — urgently or impatiently. And I think the keyword that I keep coming back to for this Mars square Saturn is frustration. That it’s taking longer than you want, that there is a bigger, you know, hurdle to overcome in the process than you expected. That there is just a lot more effort required, not even necessarily to create the momentum or the progress that you’re looking for, but there may be a lot of effort required to even just kind of maintain place. And that idea of Saturn, you know, technically on paper, Saturn is definitely the winner. But I liked what you said, Austin, because I’m really struggling to kind of find the right words to articulate that Mars is not in a bad position here. You know, Mars is domiciled in one of his home signs. He is a competent contestant in this kind of battle of cosmic will, but just doesn’t get the right call at the right time, or loses a tiny bit of advantage here that, you know, Saturn can really claim. And it’s that sense of just a couple of things really delaying you or slowing you down that you wish you would have done something different had you known, but not having that. And the key – I’ve also been working on the three-degree kind of rule that Mars is within three degrees of squaring Saturn from almost the middle of August right through until about the 10th of October. And so that feeling of that held quality does sort of go through this timeframe. 

CB: Yeah. That’s a really good point. And you mentioned — 

AC: Yeah. 

CB: — the Saturn-Pluto conjunction, Austin, and that reminded me I had another diagram, because that’s what we’re – we can’t forget that that’s what we’re moving back into the peak of is — 

KS: That’s true. 

CB: — Saturn and Pluto moving back towards that conjunction that went exact in January, which a lot of this started over, and I remember a previous month I showed one of the first news stories about like, a new virus emerging out of China was posted in The New York Times within a day or two of the exact conjunction of Saturn-Pluto back in January. But Saturn is moving back towards that conjunction with Pluto, and it gets the closest that it’ll ever get to it in September. But by August, we’re getting super close to that again. 

AC: Yeah. 

KS: Yeah, I couldn’t remember how close it gets. It gets back to within three degrees at the end of September. 

CB: Okay. So there we go with another — 

AC: Yeah, close enough. 

CB: — three-degree rule.

KS: Yeah. 

AC: Well, and it’s – Mars is gonna be aspecting Saturn and then Pluto and then Pluto and then – it’s gonna be aspected Pluto and then Saturn, then Saturn then Pluto, then Pluto, then Saturn. Right? So bridging what tiny gap exists between the two. So Kelly, you kind of riffed on my contestants thing, and you said something about not getting the right call, which I wanna riff back on. It’s a little bit like Saturn-Pluto has paid off the ref.

KS: Yes!

AC: So that the calls are always gonna be on the Saturn-Pluto side, or enough to win the contest. 

KS: Yes. 

AC: Contest. And with, you know, in approaching this build – this Mars-Saturn energy, which is building throughout August, and which I do think it’s important to kind of feel this out and feel how well you’re gonna navigate this, I don’t think best results will come from sort of waking up on September 9th and being like, “Wow! Things are super fucked up; I guess I should have thought about this.” Like, kind of seeing this forming on an individual level as well as a collective level and kind of setting a trajectory into the storm rather than sleeping until the storm is upon you is a good idea. 

So Chris, I think you said something about – or maybe both of you did about – how sometimes with Mars-Saturn it’s just like, you can get it done, but it takes twice as much effort. Right? Because you’ve gotta push – your strength is not just pushing forward, it’s pushing a boulder forward. 

CB: Yeah. Sustained — 

AC: Sometimes as well — 

CB: — effort in the face of seemingly insurmountable odds. 

AC: Yeah. Or just, yeah, the resistance is significantly greater than normal. There’s also something to be said for – and this is especially true with Saturn, because it’s Saturn, Saturn is the planet of time and durable things but also the quality of time – is that like, you know, Kelly, you were saying, oh, this is a good Mars. This is a strong Mars. And so we can be our best martial selves; we can have all of our guns pointed in the right direction. We can be in a great shape. But if the timing is off, it’s just not the right time for that push. And — 

KS: Yeah. 

AC: — even though that’s not exciting to contemplate, there’s something to be said for saving your strength. You know, if you’re not – unless you’re planning to just leave this world by October and you’ve gotta get it done in September, then do it. But if you’re planning to be around, you know, next month, next year, there are certain – you may want to save some of your heroic capacity for a time when there’s not so much obvious resistance to pushing forward. 

CB: Right, because the normal tendency for Mars in Aries would be to just like, push forward in a short burst of a fury of energy and get through the finish line. But this is an instance where attempting to do that you might expend your energy, and it might take more effort so that you could run out of energy before you reach that because of Saturn putting excess limitations on things or holding it back and making things take longer than it might otherwise. 

KS: Yeah. That makes me think of two things – one other keyword that I’ve really been reflecting on or concept with this Mars-Saturn aspect. You know, we have some young little ones in my family; I’ve got a niece who’s nearly three and a nephew who’s two-and-a-half. And one of the concepts that their parents, you know, my siblings are trying to teach them is this idea of self-regulation, of being able to hold themselves whether it is that idea of “I want this toy now,” and we’re in the grocery story and you just can’t have it, or whatever it happens to be. And that idea of self-regulation, I keep thinking about Mars-Aries as like, the toddler and Saturn-Capricorn as that archetypal inner father or inner parent figure that is trying to say to you, “Just wait a little bit.” Like, your energy and enthusiasm is fantastic, but I can see something that you haven’t yet experienced or come to understand. And if you just come back to this in two or three or four months’ time, I promise you it’s gonna be easier or better. It’s the whole thing, you know, with the Marshmallow test. Like, you can eat one Marshmallow now, or if you wait, you get two Marshmallows 40 minutes later. I can’t remember – it’s a test they use in, to do with test psychological development, but it’s about self-regulation. And that to me is what this Mars-Saturn feels like, and to riff off what you were saying there, Austin, one of the great uses that I think astrology offers us is how to be efficient with our energy and our resources and our time. And an efficient use of energy and resources, you know, when we talk about electing moments or the time in the month where the energy is really flowing or the time in the year, that’s when you jump on because you kind of catch the current and you can get maybe a little bit more bang for your buck in terms of your effort. September and late August feels like, yeah, maximum effort for minimum return, and it certainly looks more efficient to wait or to come back or to preserve, to conserve, to do a little bit more research or planning or preparation and leave the big push for one Mars is not in this very pressured situation. 

AC: Yeah, I believe the military term for that is “in the shit.” 

KS: In the shit! Yeah. 

CB: So we’re focusing on the exact square that’s happening around – it goes exact around the 24th, correct? 

KS: Yes. Yeah. 

AC: Well, we’re talking about the whole period, but — 

CB: Yeah. 

AC: — definitely look at the exact — 

CB: Sure. 

AC: — square. 

CB: Exact square — 

KS: Yeah, and I’ve been making that point that you mentioned, Austin, that you’re gonna hear a lot of astrologers talk about the Mars-Saturn square around the 24th of August. But keep in mind there’s another one that’s exact at the end of September, and it doesn’t go away after that day. 

AC: Yeah. 

KS: It’s very much an ongoing, felt, continued, lived vibe. 

AC: It’s our new friend! It’s our new — 

KS: It’s our new friend! 

AC: — best friend. Or new pair of best friends who move in and just start arguing every day in our heads and perhaps possessing the people around us. 

CB: That’s a really great analogy. It’s like, if you were living in an apartment and you have two roommates that are like, at odds with each other, and you’re just trying to like, get through it. Here is – there’s all of the Mars aspects and just showing how the exact ones, especially those first two hits, are just so close together first in August and then starting in late September and early October. But they’re all just really close in degrees, so that it’s almost like we don’t have a full break between those even though it looks like there’s a little lull in between. 

AC: Yeah. And then inner planets get in on that once they go into Libra and it keeps the… 

KS: It keeps the vibe present!

AC: It keeps it going! 

KS: Yeah! 

AC: But anyway, well, and so – but like, practical takeaway, right, is like, get eyeballs on this in August as it’s forming up. And consider delaying your heroism, right? Like, there are some lives and some situations where you just gotta do it. You’ve gotta just grab the ores and row your way through the storm. But if you don’t have to do that, it’s not, you know, it’s gonna be half the reward for twice the effort. And consider like, what do you wanna try to get done during that period of time, and what’s maybe not worth pushing? you know, work on it. See how it goes. But don’t bet on things moving forward in a timely manner. 

KS: Yeah, I think that’s a good point, too, Austin, that to the extent you have control over what is being handed to you or what you do or don’t have to do in the next few months, there’s some situations where the Saturn vibe is like, this is just the necessary thing, and it’s just a heavier experience right now. I’m just thinking that not everyone has the choice to be so in control of when they do things, if you like. And to the extent that there are things that you can maybe delay or scale back in the short-term, that’s probably a really smart strategy for now. 

AC: Yeah, it’s just, you know, as far as what you can control, right? 

KS: Yeah. 

AC: That’s always a portion of things. It’s never the — 

KS: That’s true. 

AC: — entirety. 

KS: Yeah. So — 

CB: Yeah. 

KS: — that’s Mars-Saturn. 

CB: Yeah. So that’s Mars-Saturn, and that’s pretty much the end of the month. And I mean, that kind of situates us in terms of the rest of the year basically. We’re getting into the thick of it, and like I said, we are getting to the top of the rollercoaster and getting ready for the next downward slope of that. So here’s a diagram just to show you this within the context of the entirety of the year and where we’re sort of placed right there in August with those first three direct hits and Mars stationing retrograde and intensifying things next month in September, then going through another three hits. We get Saturn and Pluto coming back to very close also next month and early into October. We get the, I believe, the third and final Jupiter-Pluto conjunction happens in November as well as a number of other things. Mercury stationing direct on election day. Yeah. And then Mars eventually has a third hit with all of those planets early next year. So it’s the opening of a whole set of three. 

AC: In a very different arrangement. 

CB: Yeah. With much more Uranus involved. 

AC: It’ll be a very different vibe. 

Yeah, I was thinking – so I was thinking about – so with Mars and Saturn being tightly square for so long, whenever a planet has hard aspects from both Mars and Saturn in classical traditional astrology, that’s often referred to as a besiegement, right? And the metaphor is a siege, as the military situation where you’re stuck in your castle or settlement, and nothing gets in and you can’t get out. And I was just thinking about that, and knowing that we have these like, moments of besiegement peppered over the next couple months. So I was like, okay, so let’s just use that metaphor; how do you – if you know that you’re going to be besieged, right? Sauron’s forces have marched out, the eagle king has come to tell you that they are on their way. How do you prepare for a siege? You know, what are the defenses that can be shored up so they don’t just plow through your walls, and you know, what are the supplies you’re gonna need? And obviously I’m speaking mythically here, but you know, there are a lot of different walls that we have, right? Like, do you have – can you maybe get health insurance? And you don’t. Right? Do you maybe wanna get some cans of food just in case grocery stores are not in good shape for a week where you are. Right? 

KS: Yeah. 

AC: The little things, like, scaling down from the full wrath of the orcs. But you know! 

KS: No, that’s — 

AC: Like, little — 

KS: It’s — 

AC: — little things. There are little things we can do to like, make ourselves – we can’t make ourselves invulnerable, right? That’s impossible. But we can do little things to make ourselves less vulnerable, especially if we know when there’s likely to be trouble. 

CB: Yeah, or economically. Last month the analogy – I think it was last month you were talking about the analogy that it’s like, the atomic bomb has hit, but all we’ve felt is just like, the little shockwave or the flash of light. But we still haven’t really felt, and that’s been weird, the full economic impact of everything that’s happened over the past few months, and we’re still sort of waiting for that shoe to drop here before too long. 

AC: Yeah. And in some sectors, they’re already leveled. The ones that are closer to ground zero. You know, if you own a restaurant, like, you’re not waiting for the shoe to drop. It’s been fucking Hiroshima for months. Right? 

KS: If you’re a – yeah, if you’re a long-haul pilot, you’ve been grounded now for a while.

AC: Yeah. But that hasn’t spread out to what will obviously be its full extent. And you know, again, you can’t – this isn’t about – I think there’s a tendency for the mind to get stuck on, “Well, I can’t protect myself perfectly; I can’t make myself invulnerable, so I’m not gonna bother,” and like, finding what you can do is useful. Because there are sometimes there are little – there are just like, little pivots or tweaks that make you less vulnerable to environmental difficulties. 

KS: That’s a really good analogy, Austin. You know, it makes me think about supply chains and logistics. So you know, that’s where they’re stocking up on some things, maybe not going overboard, but a little bit of that. Especially if there are certain things, whether it’s a medication or a vitamin or something specific for a pet or a loved one that you think, “I really don’t wanna be without that for a few months.” You know, stocking up on some of those things. It might even be that you don’t normally take vitamin D, for instance, and you think, “I’m gonna start taking a thousand milligrams a day,” or whatever the recommended dose is for your situation. 

So there’s little things like that, and then so there’s like, supply and logistics, but there’s also that defense and protection. I do like the military analogy for this around, you know, defense and protection – do you need to start doing a plank series or something for your body that will help your body be stronger or help your mind be stronger? Are there things like – I know for me, I’ve consciously scaled down some work commitments in this time frame just to create a little bit more breathing room and space. 

AC: Yeah. 

KS: You know, which is a privilege that I can do that. But I’m glad that I can, you know, just create a little bit more room so that I’m not putting myself under as much pressure as I might normally. And so it’s those kinds of things of like, toning down, playing it safe, being a little bit cautious. You know, I think about all the Saturn in Capricorn words of being a bit conservative, being a bit cautious. So yeah, I think that’s really practical advice – that even if you can’t perfectly insulate against this, there’s still a lot you can do to minimize its impact on you personally. 

CB: Yeah, for sure. And — 

AC: Those are really good suggestions, Kelly. Like, the little things like seeing if you can get ahead on a prescription that you might need where, you know. 

KS: It’s just so practical that we don’t — 

AC: Maybe if things close down, you can’t — 

KS: Yeah! 

AC: I was literally seeing somebody the other day talking about, oh, “I didn’t have my prescription for a while” because of — 

KS: Yeah. 

AC: — you know, because of the situation. It was really difficult. And seeing if you can, you know, talk to your doctor or see if you can get one ahead on it or, you know, just little things like that. 

KS: And that’s where, I think, I know Mars isn’t perfect, but I wonder if that experience of we all went through a lockdown type thing before, we have a little bit of a better understanding of what it can be like and what we could do in advance to help provide those little bits of protection and reassurance for us. You know, it’ll be individual in terms of what that might be, but none of us had been through something like that before late March and April, so the shock of, “Oh my god, this isn’t available,” or “I can’t get that,” you know, to our very saturated, modern, Western mindset of not being able to get something when you want it? You know, I think that was very worrying, especially when what you needed was maybe a life-saving medication. 

CB: Right. 

AC: That’s really – that’s so good to ground it in “Remember the last time Mars hit Saturn and Pluto? Because that happened earlier this year! And what do we learn from that?” 

KS: Yeah. 

AC: You know, I was really disciplined and good, and so maybe this time, I will just plan to get drunk and play video games 12 hours a day. You know, I’ll mix it up a little bit. 

CB: Yeah. 

AC: Because I — 

KS: Oh my gosh! 

AC: — saw some people were doing that, and I was like, doing my pushups and not eating carbs, and I was very jealous. 

CB: You were like, “I’ll be meditating — 

AC: So maybe I’ll just be a piece of shit — 

CB: — in the forest.”

AC: — this time? Yeah! 

CB: Yeah. Yeah, I like that. 

KS: No, Gabe, you’re supposed to be on the planking challenge with me and Nina! 

CB: And also, I mean, but also there’s people who already – like, thinking we mentioned restaurants earlier. There’s restaurants that are trying to eek by at this point doing half-capacity or what have you, which I’m sure is already hard, and are just trying to stretch it in order to get by and do whatever it takes to get through this period. But like, what – how do you adapt when you realize that this is coming back or it’s getting worse again or it’s not something that’s gonna clear up right away, and how can you adapt knowing that? Or sort of make plans with that in mind for the next few months as opposed to just thinking that things are gonna clear up and it’s gonna be back to normal before too long? 

KS: Yeah. 

CB: Yeah. 

KS: So on that happy note — 

CB: All right! On that happy note — 

KS: — we have a much happier topic to talk about. 

CB: So is that the forecast for August? Are we good for August? 

AC: I will just add — 

CB: I mean, it’s so much — 

AC: — one thing. That this — 

CB: Yeah. 

AC: — this sort of like, you know, we naturally – the conversation naturally kind of found this channel of, yeah, yeah, you’re not gonna like, stop the plague or have an impenetrable fortress, but look at the little things. That’s the Sun and Mercury in Virgo, right? Which is — 

KS: Yes.

AC: — the last 10 days of the month. It’s like, that’s what the Sun and Mercury together in Virgo do is they like, you know, they take the microscope or the magnifying glass across the terrain, be like, “You know what? I can move that, and that’ll be more helpful.” 

CB: Yeah, for sure. Like, each of us individually figuring out what we can do to improve the situation and get through on our own terms to the best that we can. 

KS: A hundred percent. 

AC: Yeah. And also, just one thing – like, remember you got friends. Right? We have a tendency in our culture to talk on two scales, which is everybody and just me. But really, like, we are part of social units like families and networks of friends, and you know, drawing on – like, maybe I can do something for you and you can do something for me that we couldn’t do for ourselves that puts us in a better position. So just little tiny reminder about that. 

CB: Are you cool with people texting you just to say, “What’s up?” if they need a friend? Do you want me to like, put your phone number in the video version of this below this section? 

AC: I’m cool with my friends doing that. 

CB: Okay. All right, I guess that’s okay. I will text you if I need to next month. 

All right guys. Well, I guess that’s the forecast for August. Obviously, we’re getting to a really pivotal part of the year; it’s transitioning into September and that’s kind of the climax of a lot of this stuff that we’ve been focusing on, especially if you go back and listen to our year ahead forecast. So if you’d like more info about that, I’ll probably link to the year ahead forecast that we did back in December at the end of this video if you wanna jump ahead. Otherwise, we’ll be back to talk about September next month. 

So let’s transition into our discussion topic. Before we do that and transition into the second part of this episode, we have to talk about our sponsor this month, which is there’s an astrology conference coming up called the Fresh Voices in Astrology Summit, which is a two-day free virtual event happening August 15th through the 16th of 2020. And it’s being hosted by Kirah Tabourn, who is actually joining us here tonight to talk about the event for just a few minutes and tell us what’s going on with it. So let me see if I can promote you to a panelist, Kirah. And then we will hear about this. 

Have you guys attended other Fresh Voices? Because they’ve done a few of these, I think, at this point. Did you? Were you in one at one point, Kelly? 

KS: I wasn’t in the Fresh Voices, no. But — 

AC: Weren’t there books published in this sort of – weren’t there like, Fresh Voices books compilations? 

CB: Not — 

KS: You’re thinking of — 

CB: — so far. 

KS: — The Next Generation, a different compilation, I think, Austin. 

CB: Hey — 

AC: But by — 

CB: Hey Kirah. 

AC: — Tony. 

CB: Welcome. 

KIRAH TABOURN: Hey! How’s it going? 

CB: Pretty good. Thanks for joining us; thanks for staying up late tonight. Where – are you on the east coast or central? 

KT: Yeah. Yeah, I’m on the east coast, staying up — 

KS: Oh my god, you’re — 

KT: — late, but! 

KS: You’re a rockstar for joining us – thank you! 

KT: No worries! Yeah, I’m packing up to move to the west coast in two days, so I’m up anyway. 

CB: Brilliant. All right. So let me put the image up for this. But what’s going on with this conference? You’re heading up and you’re the host of this conference, right? 

KT: Yeah. So I just recently became the new director of Fresh Voices, taking over from Tony Howard who is the director of Astrology University. And so yeah, we’ve been planning this summit that I’m pretty proud of myself for this lineup that I got together; it’s a really great lineup of folks. So yeah, you can see it right there. And we have some really cool talks; it’s gonna be all weekend long. Like, nine AM Pacific to seven PM Pacific, I believe. So there are six talks a day, and yeah, it’s all free. You can purchase an all-access pass which goes to support all of these amazing speakers and ensures that we can continue to do these free summits.

CB: Cool. So you can basically sign up and if you attend live, you attend the talks for free through the website. Otherwise, you can also sign up for like, a VIP pass in order to get access to recordings and other things like that? 

KT: Yeah, exactly. The VIP pass, you can download all the videos, you can access them from any device at any time you want. 

CB: Brilliant. All right. 

AC: That’s a really good model. 

CB: Yeah, I really like that model; it’s really smart seeing how different organizers are trying to deal with doing online conferences like this and what model is equitable, and I really like that as an idea. It’s really a good one. 

KT: Yeah. I love it. I was on the summit last year where I did my talk on millennial generation and that was just, it was a lot of fun. So I’m really excited to host this year, because there’s a lot of really cool talks. 

CB: What are some of the topics? I’ll see if I can put it up based on the website for those that are watching the video version. 

KT: Yeah. So there you go. So yeah, you can see all the talks here. But I don’t know, some I’m really excited about. Jessica Lanyadoo’s doing “High Times and Addiction in the Birth Chart,” which is something I haven’t seen much of. So that’s gonna be cool. I’m really excited for Alice Sparkly Kat’s “If Astrology is a Language, Whose Language Is It?” That’s gonna be a really good one. There’s just a bunch of – I’m excited, because I get to see all of them! Yeah, Six is doing “Holistically Addressing Sex in Astrology.” We have Bear here, who’s doing “The Moon As the Roots of Self Discovery and Empowerment.” Bear did a talk for WSAA on the Moon I guess a month or two ago, maybe even longer. Yeah, right before NORWAC, I think. And it was so good, and I took so many notes, so I’m really pumped for that one. Yeah, and Taylor Ursula, one of my good friends, is doing “Surviving the Saturn-Uranus Showdown of 2021.” So that’s definitely like, a must-see, I think. 

CB: Brilliant. 

KT: That’s like, the major theme of 2021, so that’s gonna be a good one as well. They’re all gonna be great. 

CB: For sure. Yeah, this looks like a really great lineup. So the website is FreshVoicesInAstrology.com. The dates are August 15th through the 16th, so I guess 23 days from now. So people have plenty of time to sign up. Are there any major things that we should mention that we forgot to mention about it? 

KT: No, just, you know, sign up. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram. We’re at AstrologyVoices. And yeah, sign up for our newsletter so you can hear about all the other monthly webinars we offer. We just did a webinar with Cam White — 

KS: With Cam, right? 

KT: It was really, really good! Yeah, he did a great job. And that was about having your benefics in detriment or fall, how they’re still benefics so they still work out for you. 

So yeah, we have a couple that I’m gonna announce soon for September and onwards, so yeah. Check us out. 

CB: So it’s really about like, giving a platform for new speakers or speakers that you don’t always see or don’t usually see or haven’t seen yet on like, big conferences or things like that, but that are still doing really amazing work and really fresh and innovative work in the community. 

KT: Exactly. Yeah. Which is – it’s just so exciting to me that I get to be, you know, the director of this platform now and really serve to like, uplift and celebrate all of these amazing astrologers who don’t typically get a platform right away. So yeah, it’s a great way to support young and up-and-coming astrologers, and yeah. Check us out! 

KS: Yeah, and — 

CB: Brilliant. 

KS: — congratulations, Kirah, on your appointment to the directorship of Fresh Voices, because I know that’s kind of a new thing. But that’s really exciting, and I think we’re gonna get so many wonderful new voices coming out with you being in charge. So congratulations! 

KT: Thank you! Thanks so much. 

CB: Awesome. Well, thank you for joining us — 

AC: And so it’s the — 

CB: — tonight. 

AC: So it’s the — 

CB: Yeah. 

AC: — 15th and 16th? 

KT: Yeah. 15th and 16th. It’s Saturday and Sunday. 

AC: Right. And so that’s our Uranus station and the Mercury cazimi, which we talked about half an hour ago which, you know, not knowing that we talked about what a good to like, reset your thinking about things and get some new ideas. So, you know, well elected. 

CB: Yeah, nice election. 

KT: Exactly! Yeah. And Tracey — 

KS: Nicely done!

KT: — Tracey’s doing her talk on Mercury; it’s called “Unlock Your Gifts of the Mind: Learning By Mercury,” so that’s gonna – it’s like, perfect for the weekend. 

KS: Fantastic! And just one more question – I know it’s late and we’ve gotta let you go – Kirah, are you gonna have talks running every month going forward after this as well through Fresh Voices, right? 

KT: Yeah, exactly. At least once a month, we might even be able to do two depending on how many people have something to present. So if you are interested and you have a webinar that you’d like to present, shoot me an email and we can talk about it. 

KS: So exciting. 

CB: Brilliant. Yeah, that is — 

AC: Nice. 

CB: — exciting. And where are you moving to? Can we say? 

KT: I’m moving to LA, yeah. I’m —

CB: Okay. 

KT: — moving from — 

KS: Fantastic! 

KT: — like, New York slash right now I’m in PA with my family, but heading out to LA. 

CB: Cool. Well, a lot of astrologers lately moving to LA. I know Cam’s there and — 

KT: Yeah. 

CB: — Diana Rose Harper is there, I think. So yeah. People can connect. You guys can connect and maybe do an astrology group at some point, maybe when there’s — 

KT: Yeah. 

CB: — not a pandemic. 

KT: Exactly! Yeah. We did one in November. 

KS: First pandemic! 

CB: Okay. 

KT: Yeah. We did one in November, which was really fun, and then we also did one in the Bay. Diana and I went up there to see, you know, Bear and Erin. So once post-pandemic, I’m definitely gonna be organizing some monthly dinners for sure. 

CB: Cool. All right. Awesome. Well, thanks for joining us and thanks for hosting this, and I’m looking forward to checking it out. 

KT: Thanks for having me. 

CB: Cool. All right. 

So let’s see, where do we transition to from here? I guess onto our very important discussion topic, very timely. So there was a documentary that came out on Netflix – I think it just came out earlier this month, because that’s when everybody started talking about it at the beginning of July or maybe late June. But it was on the famous astrologer Walter Mercado, and it’s a documentary about his life as an astrologer and his sort of influence through his horoscope predictions, basically, where he was a television astrologer for several decades and arguably – I mean, I think Austin, you were saying he was probably the most – I didn’t really think of it like that, but he was probably the most prominent or famous sort of public astrologer in the world at one time. Do you think – is that arguable? Or is that — 

AC: Well, yeah. I mean, that was certainly the impression I got from the documentary. I remember, like, knowing that he existed. You know, he’s very – with his capes and his unique style – very visually striking. But I didn’t realize that in the Spanish-speaking world, he was fuckin’ everywhere. Like, millions of people tuning in every morning to get their horoscopes. So that was, you know, Kait and I – I think Kait was like, “Hey, let’s watch this thing tonight,” and I was like, “Eh, all right.” And it was pretty mindblowing. You think about it’s really easy to get caught in thinking about astrology, thinking about the recent history of astrology like, in English if you’re primarily an English speaker and doing English media. But like, you know, while whatever we were doing was happening and whatever was going on, like, I don’t know, Rob Brezsny in the English-speaking newspapers, Walter Mercado was being watched by millions of people. So that in and of itself was just really interesting to me. 

CB: Yeah. Kelly, did you watch the documentary? 

KS: I did; I watched it last night, and — 

CB: Okay. 

KS: — it was fascinating! I made all these notes, because I knew we’re kind of debating what his rising sign or what their rising sign might be, I guess, might be a better way of describing it. And yeah, it was really fascinating to me, and I think, yeah, that bias for me as an English speaker just not even being aware. And I was so intrigued to see Lin-Manuel Miranda in the documentary talking about how he had grown up watching Walter Mercado and that just such, you know, it was like, wow, this is amazing. And you know, he’s on Sally Jessy Raphael and Regis and Kathy Lee. You know, he was so well known, and then so sad with what happened with the business arrangement and the contract situation, and that was kind of, you know, the beginning of the end for his career, I guess. 

CB: Yeah. So the name of the documentary — 

AC: He got it back for a while after that, but I mean, he had like, a three-decade, three, four-decade run, which is — 

KS: He did have a very long run. 

AC: — being huge. 

KS: Yes. 

CB: Yeah. 

AC: And so that’s interesting, right, because we – you know, I grew up and I think you did, Chris, and I think you did, Kelly, with like, popular astrology being what was in the newspaper. Right? That’s how, you know — 

KS: Yes. 

AC: — the public interfaced — 

KS: Yes! 

AC: — with astrology. Like, I don’t remember there ever being an astrology TV show ever. And so that was just really interesting to think about, like, what if there was somebody giving horoscopes every morning? And your mom was like, “Shh! We gotta watch this!” Right? Like, that’s – like, I don’t know! I just hadn’t thought about it. It’s interesting. 

KS: I did find that —

CB: Yeah, and it was — 

AC: And I also — 

KS: Yeah. 

AC: Go ahead. 

CB: And it was interesting — 

KS: I did — 

CB: — seeing — 

KS: Yeah. 

CB: — so many Spanish-speaking astrologers say that they were influenced by that on Twitter and like, other places that he had an influence on them or their interest in astrology. 

KS: Yeah, I thought that, you know, the horoscopes being read at the end of the news bulletin instead of the weather forecast was absolutely fascinating. Because yeah, I just read it in the paper, and we had – like, in Australia, we had Athena Starwoman who was the woman who was very well-known in Australia when I was sort of growing up. Yeah! 

CB: So the name of the documentary for people that might wanna look it up is Mucho Mucho Amor: The Legend of Walter Mercado. It’s on Netflix. And the description on Netflix says, it reads, “Dazzling and tender-hearted, legendary astrologer Walter Mercado vanished at the peak of his fame. This documentary poignantly explains what happened.” And they in the first part of the documentary, they talk about his life and his sort of like, rise to fame later in life as an astrologer for two or three decades, and then how due to contract dispute with his manager how he was not able to – he had to go off TV for like, 10 years and then eventually towards the end of his life started to make a somewhat a comeback before passing away late last year in November of 2019. 

So Leisa and I watched it, and our main thing was trying to debate what his correct birth chart was. And there’s a lot of controversy; I didn’t realize there was two separate controversies related to this that I didn’t realize until after we were done. So the first controversy is that if you look up Walter Mercado’s birth date and year on Wikipedia or pretty much any source, including the documentary, it says that he was born on March 9th, 1932, which makes him like, a 1932 Pisces. 

However, if you go to Astro.com, if you go to Astro Databank, which is like, the primary resource where astrologers submit birth data for celebrities and other people for research purposes, there was a Spanish-speaking astrologer named Eduardo Castellanos who obtained an official birth record for Walter Mercado, and it says that he was actually born April 25th, 1931, at six AM in Ponce, Puerto Rico. And the link is actually broken for this on Astro Databank, so I wrote to this astrologer directly and asked him if he could send me the birth record, just to verify and see the image myself, and he actually emailed it back to me. And this is it – it’s like, a handwritten birth record from Puerto Rico that he was able to obtain. 

And what it says, basically, in Spanish is that at six in the morning on April 25th, 1931, in the house of the declarant, a white boy was born who was named Walter. So right away, we’ve got an issue here where the like, public – and Walter himself may have told people for years that he was a Pisces – but if this document is true, then it turns out his real birth year and birth chart was completely different. So that’s like, issue number one is the debate over whether he’s a 1932 Sun sign Pisces, or if he’s a 1931 Taurus. 

So for our purposes, I think we’re just taking for granted that – I’m leaning towards thinking that the birth data that this other astrologer got is correct, and that Walter must have put out, like, a different birth date for whatever purposes, which is not entirely something that’s… I’ve come across this before with different astrologers where they put out one set of data, but then later it turned out that they were born at a different time or something like that. Have you guys come across that? 

KS: People putting out different — 

AC: Well, and just from a — 

KS: — birth times? 

AC: From a motive perspective, you know, an astrologer who values privacy certainly has motive to not let everyone see their chart. 

CB: Sure. Yeah, and there can be different reasons for that. I think the famous Sun sign astrologer who wrote the book Love Signs in 1968 – what was her name? Linda — 

KS: Linda Goodman. 

CB: — Goodman? 

AC: Linda Goodman? 

KS: Yeah. 

CB: I think there was like, a similar case with her; there was something similar like that with her chart, if I’m remembering correctly. So anyways, we’ll say that for the purpose of this argument that the birth record is correct, and that Walter was actually born in 1931 on April 25th, 1931, at six AM. 

So here we get to debate number two, which is the problem that Leisa and I ran into when we were watching this documentary, which was super annoying even though it was a really great documentary that we both enjoyed a lot, is that if you cast a chart for that date, what you end up with is the Sun and Mercury in Taurus, and you end up with an early Taurus rising Ascendant for what is obviously a rounded time of six AM, and he was born at home in like, 1931. So that means what we have is an approximation or an approximate birth time. And unfortunately, that means that the Ascendant could be either in early Taurus, giving him Taurus rising, or if you back the chart up just a few minutes, just seven minutes, if he was born seven minutes earlier, which is possible if it’s an approximate time, then he could be Aries rising. So it changes the ruler of the Ascendant where you’ve got two different rulers of the Ascendant, and if you’re using whole sign houses like the three of us do, then it actually also changes most of the house placements when the Ascendant changes signs. 

So as astrologers, this was incredibly agonizing for me and Leisa because we were trying to figure out the entire thing. We kept pausing it to argue back and forth about like, what the correct rising sign was. So the end result of that was Leisa was leaning, was arguing much more strongly and felt very strong that it was like, an Aries rising chart with Mars ruling the Ascendant, placed in Leo in the 5th whole sign house. I am slightly inclined towards the Aries rising chart more than the Taurus rising chart. However, Austin, I know that you feel strongly that the Taurus rising chart is right, correct? 

AC: Yeah, I think it makes a beautiful case for itself. And it is the stated time, whereas, you know, this is a rounded time, so if it’s any later – if it’s rounded back, it’s absolutely Taurus rising. And we’d have to go more than five minutes back to get an Aries rising. So there’s that piece. And then there’s the interpretive piece. But before I give that, what I wanna point out that’s the same in both charts that I think is really interesting is that we have Saturn right on the Midheaven in Capricorn — 

CB: Right. 

AC: — in both cases at 23 degrees. So this documentary, which is like, “This is this person’s whole life and death,” right? you know, this is them living in eternity. Came out as Pluto was exactly conjunct their Midheaven and Saturn, right? Like, this is the testament; this is – what is a speech at a funeral called? What is the name — 

KS: Eulogy. 

AC: — of that? Yeah, this is the video eulogy for an entire life. And that’s so perfect with Pluto going over the Midheaven and Saturn, which is in and of itself I think a good argument for this from the birth certificate rather than the stated Pisces the other year. 

CB: Okay. Somebody in the – Julian Philips in the comments says, “I meant to send this to everyone, but in the Hispanic culture they celebrate two different birthdays per person – one, their birthday, and one is their saint’s day. They often celebrate both.” So that could be a contributing factor. Unfortunately, we can’t ask Walter himself, and I thought I saw a comment from the documentary maker saying that they had seen a birth record of some sort, but then when I tagged them on Twitter asking if that was true and showing them this birth record, they didn’t reply. So I don’t know what they saw or if they actually saw something or what have you, but they were going with the 1932 birthdate as the official one. 

So good point about that. So Leisa’s in the comments saying things. Maybe she should join us; would you mind? Since she’ll probably argue better for the Aries rising case than I would. And then I’ll just let you two argue it. 

AC: Sure! 

KS: Of course! Bring her on! Yeah. 

CB: Okay. 

AC: We could talk — 

KS: I mean — 

AC: — about it, too. We don’t necessarily — 

KS: Yeah. 

AC: — need to — 

CB: No, no — 

KS: These are my notes! 

AC: — counterpoint. 

KS: Like about — 

CB: Yeah. 

KS: — the Aries rising versus the Taurus rising I made! Talking points. 

CB: Okay. 

KS: I didn’t wanna forget. Yeah. 

CB: Let me see if I can do that. All right. Hello. Welcome! 

LEISA SCHAIM: Hello! 

KS: Hi! 

AC: Hey Leisa. 

LS: Hey. Nice to see you! 

KS: Thanks for staying up! 

LS: Yeah, of course! Yeah, I have to give a caveat; I’m not caffeinated or napped, so — 

CB: Okay. All right. So let’s talk about this. So first, let’s give an overview of just like, what the different charts would look like. So let’s start with the Taurus chart, since that’s the birth time given and that’s the default chart. We would have Taurus rising with the ruler of the Ascendant being Venus exalted in the sign of its exaltation at 29 degrees of Pisces in the 11th whole sign house. So that would be the ruler of the Ascendant and would be a dominant planet in the chart. 

The Sun and Mercury are gonna be in Taurus in the first house. It’s pretty close to sunrise, so it’s getting close to a day chart. There’s really a window there that’s kind of annoying as an additional complication in terms of whether this is a day chart or a night chart. But we’ll pass over that. 

This chart has a Jupiter-Pluto conjunction in Cancer in the 3rd whole sign house in what could potentially be a day chart. If it is, then Jupiter’s the most positive planet. The Moon and Mars are in Leo in the 4th whole sign house. Neptune in Virgo in the 5th house. Saturn is conjunct the degree of the MC at 23 degrees of Capricorn, but it’s in the 9th whole sign house, so there would be an overlap of like, 10th house and 9th house topics there. And then finally, Uranus and the North Node are in the 12th house in Aries. 

So those are the placements for the Taurus rising chart. If the chart was actually seven minutes earlier, then the alternative is Aries – is like, let’s say, 28, 29 Aries rising. So Aries rising would have Uranus and the North Node in the first whole sign house. The Sun and Mercury would be moved to the second whole sign house. The Jupiter-Pluto conjunction would be in the 4th house. The Moon and Mars – and Mars would become the ruler of the Ascendant in this chart, so it would become a little bit more important – would be placed in Leo in the 5th house. Neptune in Virgo in the 6th. Saturn would be moved up to the 10th whole sign house, but still conjunct the degree of the MC. And his exalted Venus in Pisces would be moved over to the 12th house instead of the 11th house. 

So who wants to start? Like, what are the arguments either way? I mean… 

AC: I can give mine — 

KS: So — 

AC: — quick. 

KS: Okay, go. 

CB: Okay. 

AC: Yeah, let me just start with a few points. So for the Taurus rising, Sun in the first – like, big radiance, big image. You know, Sun in the first gives a person a lot of visual flair. But what’s most interesting to me about that is if the rising is Taurus, then the ruler is Venus. So Venus is very strong, exalted, and in the 11th. The 11th is where you see followings, fanbase. You know, it’s groups of people, but if you are watched by millions of people, you’re gonna see a strong 11th house. One example being Kurt Cobain having a Moon-Jupiter conjunction in Cancer in the 11th house, right? Fanbase that’s loyal 30 years after his death. Right? So we have the nativity being steered by an extremely strong Venus in the 11th. Also Walter’s appearance was extraordinarily Venusian. Right? We have sequined capes, lots of colors. Like, it’s all Venus all the time. 

Now, in order to get that crazy 11th house – like, that crazy following, those huge numbers – not only do we have an exalted benefic which would be in sect if six o’clock itself is correct. Not only do we have that in the 11th, but if we look at the ruler, it’s Jupiter in Cancer. Right? So we have an exalted benefic ruled by another exalted benefic. And that’s the kind of thing that I wanna see if somebody’s, you know, in this case, their 11th house is like, worldwide spectacular. You know, a huge ability to draw attention and hold it. And there’s other stuff too, but that would be my anchor points for the Taurus rising. 

CB: Okay. So your primary thing is focusing on the eminence and seeing that ruler of the Ascendant – seeing that exalted Venus in the 11th house being the ruler of the Ascendant, and that exalted Jupiter in the 3rd and those being for you good eminence factors? 

AC: Yeah, that plus the extraordinarily Venusian appearance. Like, every appearance was a work of art, and they were often unique. Like, he had a hundred different capes. 

CB: Right. Okay. So on the other end, so for the Aries rising, we also focused on his appearance with Aries rising. But with Aries rising, we were seeing it as more of like, a Leo-type thing with having Aries rising and having then the ruler of the Ascendant being Mars in Leo. While he’s gonna have like, the Moon and Mars in Leo either way, having it as the ruler of the Ascendant would mean that Leo is playing a much more dominant role in the chart. And I know, Leisa, that you focused on, like, at the end when they brought him out as this museum, this art exhibit – they brought him out on like, a throne or something, right? 

LS: Yeah. And this is, of course, a spoiler, so just anyone who hasn’t watched this and doesn’t want spoilers, stop listening now. But yeah, he came out on this huge throne that they carried him on. And he just looked like a king, being carried out through this entire exhibit. And this was kind of like, the pinnacle of the end of the movie. 

CB: Yeah. And it’s like, his thing was like, wearing capes and having a very flashy or very flamboyant style. But it was also – there was like, a uniqueness, and there was this focus on his uniqueness and eccentricity that also could be coming through arguably if he had Uranus in the first whole sign house; it could be coming from some of that. So that’s part of the argument that people would have to think about was Walter Mercado’s style and appearance and presentation – was it more of a Venus thing? Was it coming from a Venus thing, or was it coming from like, a Leo type archetypal energy as one potential question or issue. 

The other thing that we were arguing for for the Saturn in the 10th, which it’s gonna be either way – but there’s a question of is it just in the 10th, or is it in the 9th whole sign house conjunct the Midheaven – was that’s actually more of just an interesting point is just he was born in 1931, so his actual success as an astrologer didn’t actually come until much, much later in life, which is a really interesting manifestation and is a pretty traditional manifestation of having Saturn angular and connected with career significators is delay in career success and notability and things like that. But that could go either way. The one that was more of an — 

AC: That’s there in both. 

CB: Yeah, it’s there in both. And I was just saying that in passing. 

So the other thing that this chart emphasizes is Jupiter in the 4th, and it would indicate more support from the family and home and early living situation. And then Venus would be in the 12th. And I felt like there was a strong argument for Venus in the 12th also ruling the 7th house of relationships, because the documentary makers didn’t seem to fully want to go there, but they seemed to be implying at least, and I – unfortunately, that’s what sucks is we can only, we’re all largely just making conclusions here based on the documentary. And normally, if you’re doing a rectification, you’d wanna do much more extensive research or even personal research than that. But there seemed to be some questions about like, whether he had ever had relationships or whether this guy who featured very prominently in the documentary as his assistant was in fact his partner or something like that. And that seemed like it could be a potential manifestation of having the ruler of the 7th house of relationships in the 12th house of hidden or secret things, and that being a part of his life that really he went out of his way to keep private, partially because he came up much younger in a culture that was much more sort of against same-sex relationships as a potential major factor in his life. 

AC: Yeah, and that’s an interesting read on the Venus in the 12th. What’s interesting is if we do Taurus rising, we have the ruler of the 7th being Mars, and Mars is at the bottom of the chart in the 4th in a similarly private place. 

CB: Good point. Yeah. Good point. So the 4th is also one of the hidden places that can indicate secrets or things that are either not known to the native or that the native keeps secret. 

KS: One of the other – because we’re also sort of talking a little bit about skewing this like, a little bit more night chart with the Aries rising versus a little bit more day chart with the Taurus rising. Not that – I mean, Taurus rising is technically night, but the Sun two degrees to the Ascendant is going to start to have that sort of solar quality and there’ll certainly be light in the sky. I know his success with astrology wasn’t the first profession that he had, but I thought I saw in the documentary that he was an actor working in telenovelas. So he actually had career success – I got the impression, you know, he was working and sort of doing things that he loved, and there was this weird sense of he was there to do an interview to promote the telenovela kind of movie-type thing he was in, and somebody – he was there and somebody didn’t show up for an interview, so they said, “You’re always talking about astrology off-camera. Just jump on camera for 10 minutes; we’ve gotta fill this air time. Just babble about it.” And it was so popular that they asked him back. Now, of course, you know, I haven’t fact-checked that myself; I’m just taking it from the doco. That to me felt a little bit like the lucky right place, right time vibe of having a benefic-ruled Ascendant with that benefic situated in a really functional house. And maybe skewed the MC-Saturn a little bit more to something day chart-esque rather than the delay of maybe a night chart vibe. 

CB: Sure. 

AC: Well, right — 

CB: Yeah. 

AC: If we go five minutes past the stated rounded time, now we’ve got a day chart. 

KS: We’ve got a fully — 

AC: Right. 

KS: — functional day chart. 

AC: If we were theoretically to just agree on Taurus, the day chart/night chart is also equally up for debate. Right? Because — 

KS: True. 

AC: — the Sun is just about to break the horizon but hasn’t quite yet at six sharp. 

CB: Right. 

AC: I also have to admit, I like the MC in the 9th because his primary job that he’s remembered for is fortuneteller. Right? Is doing divination and bringing — 

KS: Globally. 

AC: — professional topics to the 9th, and the 9th is where you see divination as an activity. 

KS: And — 

CB: Right. 

KS: — to add to that, yeah, like, and the global impact. That he was world-famous, which I would see as a little bit more of a 9th vibe in addition to that strong 11th fan thing. Leisa! 

LS: It’s really tough, because there are kind of factors that could argue either way. And I think, you know, one of the things – and this is gonna sound kind of goofy, but – one of the things that really stood out to me is just that he has Leo hair. The people that have — 

KS: He totally —

LS: — Leo rising — 

KS: — has Leo hair! Yes! 

LS: So you know, the people with either Leo rising or their Ascendant ruler in Leo are often the people that have Leo hair. And so, I mean, yeah. There are other things to be said, but that was something that seemed kind of strong to me. 

The other thing that went along with that, if we would entertain the Ascendant ruler being Leo in the 5th house, is that acting piece. Now, I think it’s tough, because Venus as a general significator can be the arts, but the 5th house is often performance and artistic pursuits do often go in the 5th house. So you know, having the Ascendant ruler in Leo in the 5th, and the fact that he had a whole career acting, being on TV shows – he had actually an acting studio or an acting courses that he taught. So I mean, that’s really interesting to me, as well as, of course, his self-presentation, which you could argue, of course, is that a Leo thing of a very flamboyant, very extraverted kind of self-presentation, or is that a Venusian thing? And I think part of the issue, of course, is that, you know, all of these are gonna be in play even if they also represent other things in the chart. So you’re not gonna take away the fact that he has Mars in Leo or Venus in Pisces either way. 

KS: Yeah. 

LS: But yeah, the Leo hair and all of the acting stuff in the 5th seemed really… He also didn’t really like being seen without makeup. You know, that was a big deal towards — 

CB: Right. 

LS: — the end, which is – it’s very performative, and Leo qualities can sometimes be a little bit vain if it’s like, a Leo rising or Ascendant ruler in Leo. 

CB: The filmmaker said somewhere on Twitter, one of the documentary people, said that it took a lot for them to convince him eventually to do one shot where he didn’t have any makeup on and he wasn’t dressed up or anything or didn’t have a cape or anything. And that that was a really big moment for her, I think, in the documentary was getting him to do that or to show that side of him. 

AC: Yeah, there was a lot of – you say a lot of older Walter being kind of annoyed at points that he couldn’t just be at full radiance, or be like, “No, it’s fine; I’m gonna do it,” and like, you know, not wanting help with things. You could see that like, wanting to be at full strength and to blaze with glory. 

But yeah, as soon as I saw that — 

CB: Yeah. 

AC: — chart, just the Moon-Mars conjunction, whatever house it’s in, you’re like, of course. Of course —

KS: Yeah. 

AC: — there’s a Moon-Mars conjunction in Leo. Right? Like — 

CB: Sure. 

KS: There are elements of that Leo flair and the capes. 

CB: Yeah. 

KS: One of the other things that – because we’re really talking about like, is this an Aries rising chart ruled by Mars in Leo in the 5th, or are we talking about a Taurus rising chart ruled with Venus in the 11th? One thing that’s repeated throughout the documentary and comes up in almost everything that I saw written online about him was this kind of nonbinary androgynous quality that either he self-identified with or other people had put onto him. And even when he was questioned directly about his sexuality, he said, you know, “I’m in love with my fans” kind of things, that “they’re who I have a relationship with.” And to my interpretation, I’m like, well, being in love with your fans is a great example for that Venus-Pisces, you know, in the 11th. But I also thought a chart ruled by a planet in Pisces might be a little bit more of that, you know, not this or that, I’m a little bit kind of fluid or I’m kind of, you know, that idea of what am I really is a very Pisces thing, versus — 

AC: Yeah, it’s — 

KS: — an Aries-ruled chart with Mars in Leo; that’s a very strong Mars signature. Like, it’s Mars fire kind of all the way. So that was a piece of it for me that I considered. 

AC: Yeah, Pisces is — 

CB: For sure. 

AC: — very “both and.” Both and neither/nor. 

KS: Yeah. Oh yeah, and he said, “I have sexuality with the wind!” Gabe’s just popped that quote in there. Like, he just did not wanna comment on that, which is partly generational and partly cultural because in the documentary, somebody describes the Puerto Rican culture as being incredibly homophobic so that, you know, there was some commentary about that as well. 

But then one of the final pieces, you know, he died of kidney failure, which I think kidneys are a little more connected to Venus. And in the Taurus rising chart, we do have a — 

AC: Yeah. 

KS: — Libra 6th house. So you see the Venus signature there as well. 

AC: That’s a really good point, Kelly. And kidneys are explicitly connected to Libra. 

KS: Yeah. 

AC: Like, that’s the – in our little zodiac dude with the anatomy — 

KS: That’s true! Yeah, when you go the zodiac man! 

CB: The traditionally – zodiac dude is the traditional name for it. 

AC: Yeah. 

KS: Yes! 

CB: In Latin. 

LS: That’s funny. 

CB: One last piece was that they really emphasized in the documentary is like, they did this whole second segment, basically, the second half of the documentary was entirely how he got into this bad contract where he signed over way too much to his manager. And the people that alerted him were relatives, basically — 

KS: Like nieces and… 

CB: Yeah, and it’s like, so I was trying to figure out – because that’s either coming from, and again, it’s either coming from like, let’s say Jupiter in the 4th and family helping out, or it’s coming from Jupiter in the 3rd and it’s like, extended relatives who were looking out for him and helping out. And I could kind of see it go either way with that one. But that could be an argument one way or another. 

LS: Yeah, that family piece was really big. And I agree it could go either way with the Jupiter there. I mean, a part that swayed me was how supportive at least, of course, we don’t know the whole backstory, but at least as portrayed in the documentary, that his mother or his parents were very supportive to him even being different growing up. And I heard Jupiter in the 4th as a support rather than Mars in the 4th. I didn’t – of course, there’s things we don’t know about his upbringing or his parents, because not too much was mentioned. But what was mentioned was that they were very supportive despite him not fitting the norm, which seemed potentially to me not to be Mars in the 4th. 

CB: Sure. So a lot of this, like, the tiebreaker for a lot of this is obviously like, more information and more research or somebody that actually knows more facts about his life versus just like, a few astrologers that watched one two-hour documentary and are just speculating about his entire life. But also — 

AC: Right. 

CB: — looking at timing. Like, timing and looking at transits through the houses could probably be a really easy – not easy, but good – tiebreaker for some of this stuff. Looking at things like profections and other things like that that we haven’t done a lot of. Yeah, so maybe we could just open it up to the community to like, talk about and debate or put forward different observations, if anybody notices anything interesting especially in terms of the timing and some of the events in his life. 

KS: I thought that – oh, sorry, Leisa. 

LS: Oh, I was just gonna say there were two timing things I did notice that seemed potentially interesting. But of course, there’s gotta be a lot more to line it up for sure. But when he signed the contract, I think a number of us have noticed that Neptune was going over his Saturn when he signed the contract. But of course it’s gonna be close to the Midheaven either way. So that in itself doesn’t really tell us. But I noticed that Saturn was actually kind of close to his Venus when he signed. And that could potentially argue for Venus being the ruler of the 7th because he signed it with this other party, and I just thought it was fascinating with Venus ruling the 7th, exalted in Pisces in the 12th, not just being about hidden relationships or not wanting to talk about relationships, but he had this interesting quote in the movie that was like, at first – speaking about his manager – “At first he was my angel, and then he was the devil.” And I thought that was, you know, Venus in Pisces in the 12th ruling the 7th, you could idealize someone you have a one-on-one relationship with, but then get hit with something else later because you’re not seeing clearly. 

AC: Yeah. 

LS: So Saturn was actually very close – not very close, but within about five degrees – when he signed it. And then when the lawsuit started, when he had to break with the manager and then the lawsuit started, what I found really striking was Saturn – this was 2006. I could not track down exact dates. But it was some time in 2006. All of 2006, Saturn was in Leo. And one of the things that was really notable about the lawsuit was he was not allowed to use his own likeness, his own name; he wasn’t allowed to perform on the TV shows. There was some confusion around that, but that was like, a statement. 

That sounds a lot like Saturn hitting one’s Ascendant ruler. Not being suddenly allowed to use your own name or your own face – you know, because the Ascendant ruler has a lot to do with those type of topics – as well as suddenly having to stop performing. So anyway, those are my two timing things that I noticed. 

CB: Okay. Yeah, so this is what astrologers do when they’re trying to rectify charts, and this is why it’s so complicated because there’s so many different things when you’re looking at the rulers of the houses and you’re looking at different placements and everything like that. Usually, you have the benefit of at least talking directly to an individual when you’re trying to rectify a chart and you can get more concrete information that way. But yeah, that was tough. That was a downside of watching the documentary, which is very good, but as an astrologer, this issue drove us a little bit crazy trying to figure out what the right rising sign was. 

I did wish, and I noticed a lot of astrologers wished, that they had gone into more about his actual astrology or what his training was. It seems like he dropped more advanced concepts occasionally in some of the clips that they played. Like, he mentioned the Saturn return and other stuff like that — 

AC: Yeah, he had like, a big wheel of where all the — 

KS: Yeah! 

AC: — current transits were behind him a couple times. I was like, “Oh, he’s not just doing horoscopes!” I thought that was really cool. Like, just familiarizing millions of people with like, you know, “I’m gonna do your sign, but relative to all this,” and like, talking about planetary positions. Because that’s not something that was really in a lot of the pop astrology in the English-speaking world at the time. Like, you know, like the Sun sign horoscope columns wouldn’t generally explain all this and have an image and be like, “Okay, Jupiter’s doing this, and then that means for you” – it was just like, “Boom, here are your horoscopes.” 

CB: Right. Yeah, for sure. 

So yeah, I mean, I’d love to hear more about that from people just in terms of like, what his approach to astrology is or if there’s been any treatments of that, that would be interesting to read or if somebody wanted to do something on that at some point. Additionally, it would be nice to hear other – especially, like, Latin astrologers, let us know how Walter influenced their lives as astrologers if he did. It might be kind of interesting to see some of that discussion as well in the comments below this episode. So let us know both about the birth chart debate; let us know, you know, if you know anything about his astrology, and also let us know what kind of influence perhaps that he had in your life or your world or other things that you’ve observed as astrologers. 

All right, guys. Well, I think that’s it. Is there anything else we were gonna discuss? Thanks Leisa, for joining us for that important debate. 

LS: You’re welcome! 

KS: Thanks, Leisa! 

LS: Thanks for having me! 

KS: So great to see you! 

LS: Yeah, you too! 

CB: All right. So what – is there anything else we wanna discuss before we close it out here? 

KS: I think… 

AC: That’s a pretty nice note to end on. 

KS: I think we’re good. 

CB: All right. Well, thanks for joining me tonight, guys, for doing the forecast for August. We’ll be back again next month for the forecast for September – a really big month. Thanks to our audience of patrons who joined us for the live recording; we had kind of a late night slumber party version of the recording tonight because of scheduling conflicts. We’ll be back to recording during a normal time next month.

KS: Yes. 

CB: Some time in late August, we’ll record the forecast for September. If you wanna join the live recordings, then just sign up and become a patron and support the podcast, and that’s one of the benefits that you get access to. 

Otherwise, that’s it for this episode of The Astrology Podcast. So thanks everybody for listening, and we will see you again next time. 

KS: Thanks everyone! 

[END CREDITS]

CB: Thanks to the patrons who help to support the production of this episode of The Astrology Podcast through our page on Patreon.com. In particular, shout out to patrons Christine Stone, Nate Craddock, Maren Altman, Irina Tudor, Thomas Miller, Bear Ryver, Catherine Conroy, Michelle Merillat, and Kate Pallotta. As well as the Astro Gold Astrology app, available at Astrogold.io; the Portland School of Astrology at PortlandAstrology.org; and the Honeycomb Collective Personal Astrological Almanacs, available at Honeycomb.co. 

The production of this episode of the podcast was also supported by the International Society for Astrological Research, which is hosting an online astrology conference September 12th and 13th, 2020. You can find out more information about that at ISAR2020.org. 

And finally also, Solar Fire Astrology Software, which is available at Alabe.com, and you can use the promo code ‘AP15’ for a 15% discount on that software. 

For more information about how to become a patron of The Astrology Podcast and help support the production of future episodes while getting access to subscriber benefits like early access to new episodes or other bonus content, go to Patreon.com/AstrologyPodcast.