The Astrology Podcast
Transcript of Episode 222, titled:
With Chris Brennan and Leisa Schaim
Episode originally released on September 20, 2019
Note: This is a transcript of a spoken word podcast. If possible, we encourage you to listen to the audio or video version, since they include inflections that may not translate well when written out. Our transcripts are created by human transcribers, and the text may contain errors and differences from the spoken audio. If you find any errors then please send them to us by email: firstname.lastname@example.org
Transcribed by Mary Sharon
Transcription released October 27, 2021
Copyright © 2021 TheAstrologyPodcast.com
CHRIS BRENNAN: Hi, my name is Chris Brennan, and you’re listening to episode 222 of The Astrology Podcast. Joining me today is Leisa Schaim. Hey, Leisa.
LEISA SCHAIM: Hey Chris.
CB: And so, we’re going to be doing in this episode, this is actually a recording of a meeting of our local astrology group here in Denver, Colorado, USA, called the Denver Astrology Group. And last Saturday, we actually organized a meeting where we did live chart readings from an audience where we applied the annual profections timing technique and outlined some of the basic principles of the technique, and then took examples from the audience when the audience members felt comfortable sharing different examples from their lives that showed how the technique worked out in practice.
LS: And always taking from a live audience is a little bit of a risk factor, but we came up actually with lots of great examples. So, if you’re interested in the annual profection timing technique, this is a really great illustration of what that can look like in people’s charts.
CB: Yeah. This is a follow-up to a previous episode of the podcast, which is episode 153 on annual profections. If you go to The Astrology Podcast website at theastrologypodcast.com and scroll down to the episodes page or go to the episodes page and then scroll down to episode 153, you’ll find my previous episode on this which is just a lecture on the annual profections timing technique where I present the basic concept of the technique and then I present a bunch of example charts using some past client charts or celebrity chart examples from my personal files. That’s more of like an abstract presentation of the technique. And the purpose of this episode and of this meeting of the Denver Astrology Group was really to share some live examples because it’s really when you talk to a person who went through the experience of certain years of their life, having certain parts of their chart activated that you really get a much more like a visceral understanding of the technique and how it actually works out.
LS: Definitely, yeah, so I think this is a really great example of that.
CB: This is, I think, the third time we’ve done this a few other times. We’ve been doing it for a while because we’ve been leading the Denver Astrology Group for over 10 years now, but this is the third time we’ve actually recorded a meeting like this, where we did live chart readings from the audience. The last one was episode 215 which is on eclipses and how to read transiting eclipses in your birth chart, which we did a couple of months ago. And then before that earlier this year in episode 197, we did one on Uranus’ transit through Taurus and the things that changes that’s starting to reflect in people’s lives at this time. So, this is a follow up to that. As always with reading live chart examples, it’s always a wild card thing and I used to avoid doing it when I used to lead workshops, but I’ve become more confident and more comfortable with it in recent years just through experience because you can really get some good examples when you do that and you’re able to have that dialogue with the audience because it’s the closest thing that you can get to replicating what almost happens in a consultation where you are able to talk to somebody about their life and actually dialogue about the events and circumstances of their life that are often very unique to the person and see how the unique chart placements play out in practice.
LS: Definitely, yeah. And I think it’s really valuable for other people to hear it too in a group setting like this, so I’m glad it’s been working out so well and people have been bringing such good examples. And so hopefully, you all listening to this will also get to get the benefit of that.
CB: Yeah, definitely. All right. Like I said, this is an extension of the previous lecture on profections that I gave in episode 153 and there’s a video and an audio version of that that’s available. If you don’t have any background in annual profections, you might want to go back and watch that episode first because even though we do some like basic introductory review about how annual profections works at the very beginning of this meeting or of this discussion, it’s not a straightforward presentation that’s as like refined as if I was normally trying to teach the technique abstractly from the very beginning.
LS: Definitely, yeah. And as soon as we dove into the actual chart examples, we started, I noticed both of us started throwing in rules that would have been introduced in a full lecture that we were just using on the fly.
CB: Right. And the very first chart example, we started using more advanced principles that hadn’t been introduced already in the basics and that first example we’ll come back to at the end of this, we’ll record a little follow up because there’s a funny story about that one of an addendum that we have to add to the very first chart example. All right. I think that’s it in terms of introductory stuff. Let’s go ahead and get into the recording from this meeting of the Denver Astrology Group. The meeting took place on Saturday, September 14th, 2019 just after 3:00 p.m. in Denver, Colorado. And I was meant to mention that if you live in Denver or you live in Colorado or if you’re ever passing through, we always host our meetings downtown on the second Saturday of each month, usually from 3:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. at the Mercury Cafe in downtown Denver. So just do a search for Denver Astrology Group and you’ll find our page on meetup.com in order to sign up for the group and get more information. All right. Well, I guess that’s it. Let’s get straight to the meeting recording.
All right, let’s go ahead and get started. So welcome, everybody to this September 2019 meeting of the Denver Astrology Group. If this is your first meeting, we always meet on the second Saturday of each month here at the Mercury Cafe in downtown Denver. Sometimes we schedule meetings late because we like to catch speakers who may be coming through from out of town. We almost caught Maurice Fernandez this time, but unfortunately, he wasn’t able to make it. Next month, who’s our speaker?
LS: Leah Samuels.
CB: Yeah, so local astrologer named Leah Samuels, and she’s giving a talk on the Dark Moon Lilith for the first time for the Denver Astrology Group, so that should be a really great meeting in October. Today, we’re going to be talking about a timing technique known as annual profections, and we’re going to talk a little bit about the theory of the technique. But mostly what we’re going to do today is we’re going to hopefully have some interaction with the audience and take chart examples. Whereas we’re teaching you the technique, we want you to start applying it to your chart in your head as we’re going through the basic principles. And in many instances, you’ll probably start to see the technique work out right away in your own chronology. And if you feel like it, we’d like you to come up and actually share your chart if you have a good example from your past history that you feel is a good exemplification of the technique. This meeting is being recorded both in the audio and video and we may release this as a podcast episode on YouTube at some point in the future. So, if anybody does share their data, you just have to be comfortable putting it out there publicly and just know that it may be posted on YouTube after the meeting is over. We’ve done this a couple of times so far with the Denver Astrology Group. The last time we did it was in July with a meeting on eclipses, where we went through the 12 houses and showed how eclipses work out when they fall in each house in the chart and then different people shared stories about how that’s worked out in their personal lives. Before that, we also did a meeting on the ingress of Uranus into Taurus and talked about how that should go theoretically in different people’s lives and took some examples from the audience to show how it actually worked out, so we’re going to continue that tradition here today with a new technique known as annual profections.
I’m Chris Brennan, and joining me is Leisa Schaim, who’s going to be helping to lead the meeting. I’ve been studying astrology for 20 years actually starting in the summer of 1999, so this is like my 20-year anniversary of learning astrology. How long have you been studying?
LS: About 15 years.
CB: 15, okay. And we’ve both been using this technique for more than a decade at this point and it’s definitely one of our core timing techniques, but it’s actually a relatively recent technique that’s only been recovered over the course of the past 10 or 20 years or so from translations of ancient Greek texts from about 2,000 years ago. In ancient Greek and Roman astrology, they had these timing techniques that they referred to as timelord techniques or timelord systems. And the basic premise of the timelord systems is that you have your basic birth chart, and the birth chart represents a set of promises for different parts of your life of different potentialities or different potentials that will manifest at some point during the course of your life. But not all parts of the birth chart are activated at all times, but instead some parts of the chart are lying dormant until those parts of the chart are activated by certain timing techniques at which point the natal potential of those placements will become awakened. There’s probably a much simpler way of saying that which is just like not everything that’s going to happen in your life is happening at all times, but instead there’s certain events that will happen in your life at certain fixed periods. And in order to know when that will happen, you have to have access to some of these timelord techniques which are designed to tell you when the natal promise will become manifested in a person’s life.
LS: Yeah. And one of the other basic premises underlying what Chris just mentioned is that we’re not looking at the chart as merely your internal psychological tendencies, but it’s also showing concrete areas of your life and either specific events that may happen at some point in those areas of life or at least tendencies with either internal or external within those areas. And so that’s part of the reason why these things aren’t active at all times because it’s not only due to your psychology, but it’s actually looking at your entire life.
CB: Right. Let’s brainstorm that. What are some one-time events that maybe only happen at certain specific points in your life? Like let’s say, getting married. Not everybody’s getting married every year of their life, but instead you may only get married once or let’s say two or three times in your life depending on how things go.
LS: Yeah. But definitely not every year.
CB: Sure, hopefully. What are some other one-time events?
LS: Injuries or illnesses can be like a one-off thing.
CB: Okay, winning the lottery, landing your dream job, maybe getting elected the head of an organization or buying a new home, having a child. There’s lots of one-time events that are just things that might happen once or maybe just a few times in your life, and those are the types of discrete events that we’re going to focus on today. So, as you think about your past chronology, try to think about some of the one-time events that are unique in your life that have occurred in specific years and think about how old you were during those specific years of your life. Like if you were 30 years old when you got married or you were 45 years old when you bought a house or what have you, try to associate what specific year of your life those events happened in.
The other thing is sometimes when people are thinking about their lives, they have an issue with taking for granted that events that have happened in their life happened for everybody, when in fact there’s a lot of certain types of events that are very highly specific or very highly unique to your own life. And so, it’s important when you’re thinking about your past chronology, not just to assume that the same thing has happened to everybody else, but to recognize the uniqueness of your own life and your own chronology and the sequence in which things happened in your life at certain ages. So, don’t take too much for granted. All right. Let’s jump right into the technique. Annual profections is really simple. All you have to do is identify your rising sign, which is the sign that your Ascendant is located in, and whatever sign that is, that sign of the zodiac is activated for the first year of your life. From the day that you’re born until your first birthday, your rising sign is activated. And then what happens is that when you reach your first birthday and you turn one year old, it then jumps to the second sign downwards in the chart and that sign becomes activated for the second year of your life and then that sign is activated for that entire year. And once that year is up and you reach your next birthday, then it moves to the next sign in zodiacal order, the third sign from the rising sign, and that sign becomes activated for one year of your life. Let’s imagine there’s a person who had their Ascendant in Cancer so Cancer was their rising sign. That means for the first year of their life, the sign Cancer was activated and the timelord for the first year of that person’s life would be the planet that rules the sign of Cancer, which is the Moon. So, because the Moon is the ruler of Cancer, that means the Moon is activated or is awakened as the timelord for that first year of the person’s life. Everybody should think about what your rising sign is and just imagine that for the first year of your life, that sign and the ruler of that sign were activated for that first year of your life. Then once that first year is up, it would jump to the second sign in zodiacal order. In our chart example with Cancer rising, it would jump to Leo for the next year of the person’s life and the ruler of Leo which is the Sun would be activated as the timelord for that year, for that entire 12 months. Then once that 12 months is up, it would jump to the next sign which is Virgo and Mercury, the ruler of Virgo, would be activated for the third year of the person’s life, and so on and so forth.
LS: Yeah. Basically, the thing that sometimes trips people up is you start with zero for the first house for the first year of your life, and we’re used to thinking of 12 houses, and therefore counting in twelves. You just have to remember that it starts with zero at the beginning and so they’re all one off of what you would expect otherwise because you were zero years old in the first year of your life, but people don’t usually refer to it that way.
CB: Right. It just keeps jumping one sign per year and eventually, at 12-years-old after 12 years, it comes back to the rising sign and the sequence repeats itself over again. You will always know that every 12 years, it will come back to the rising sign. At 12 years old, it’s again, if you have Cancer rising, then Cancer will again be activated for that year of your life as the ruler of the year.
LS: Yeah. And you can use that as a simple technique to keep counting around. So just counting in twelves every 12 years, it’ll go back to the Ascendant for the first house and the ruler of the first house, so you can count to the closest twelves to your age and that’s shortcut to figuring out what year you’re in.
CB: Right. It always comes back to the first house at 12 years old, at 24 years old, 36 years old, and so on and so forth. In order to simplify this though and so you can calculate profections easily, we’ve given you a worksheet as one of the handouts. And if you’re watching the recording and you don’t have the worksheet, then you can download it at hellenisticastrology.com/profections-wheel.pdf. The worksheet basically just shows you the 12 houses on the inside wheel and then it shows the different ages on the wheels going outwards from there. All you have to do is on the outer wheels, look up your age like how old you are in let’s say your current year, and then that will tell you what house will be activated in that year. For example, if you’re 30 years old, then you look on the inside wheel and you’ll see that you’re in a seventh house perfection year and the seventh house will be activated. If you’re, let’s say 45 years old, then the 10th house is activated. If you’re 64 years old, then the fifth house is activated, and so on and so forth. So, that means that there’s certain years where we always know if a person is a certain age that a specific house will be activated. For example, everybody who turns 30 years old will be in a seventh house profection year or everybody who is 22 years old will be in an 11th house profection year, and so on and so forth. So even though that’s the same for everybody in terms of those specific years of life, the birth chart is what’s different. And since the birth chart is what holds the natal promise, when different houses are activated in different people’s lives, that’s going to mean different things. One person might have a 10th house profection year where they suddenly get an amazing job and find great career success if let’s say they have like Jupiter or Venus in the 10th house. However, another person if they have more difficult placements in the 10th house, might get fired from a job or might experience some career setback in that year. So even though two people going into a 10th house profection year might generally experience the area of career as being more important in that 12-month period, they’re going to have much different qualitative experiences of that 12-month period of life.
LS: Yeah. The specifics will be different, but it is really unique that it’s one of the very few things in astrology where you can know something about what’s going on in a person’s chart just based on how old they are. There aren’t too many things like that in astrology, usually everything is very individualized. That’s kind of cool because that’s something you can know even without a birth chart or date.
CB: Right. How many people already are familiar with annual profections at this point before coming to this meeting? Okay, maybe half the room? Okay, good. I’ve given you not just one worksheet, but a second worksheet that makes it a little bit easier. Sometimes if you’re more used to working with like tables and columns to calculate what your profections are in a given year, all you have to do is identify your rising sign in the first row, and then identify your age over in the left column, and then find the intersection between those two to find what sign is currently activated for you in a given year. This worksheet is also available at http://www.hellenisticastrology.com/profections-worksheet.pdf . All right. Other preliminary stuff for the purpose of this discussion, we’re going to be using the traditional rulership scheme which assigns all of the seven traditional planets or visible planetary bodies to one of the 12 signs. And the big difference compared to the modern rulerships is that in this traditional scheme, Mars rules Scorpio, Saturn rules Aquarius, and Jupiter rules Pisces. So even if you don’t normally use the traditional rulerships, we’d recommend for the purpose of this technique that you might want to try using them because you might find them to be a little bit more effective because that was the scheme that was originally used when this technique was first invented. The other thing that we’re going to be using is whole sign houses. How many people are already familiar with whole sign houses as an approach to house division? Okay, maybe half the people. All you do to calculate whole sign houses is identify the sign that the Ascendant is located in, and whatever sign that is becomes the first house and then the sign after that becomes the second house and the sign after that becomes the third house and so on and so forth. It’s a really simple approach to house division, but it was also the approach that was used when this technique was first developed, so it tends to be a little bit more effective when you’re applying profections in practice so even if you don’t normally use it, you might try entertaining it for the purpose of learning this technique. All right. Let’s talk about our first interpretive principle. And the first interpretive principle we’ve already touched on, but it’s basically the idea that when you calculate your annual profections, let’s say you’ve determined your current age as of your last birthday and that you’re 30 years old or 44 years old or what have you, once you do that, you want to see what house the profection has come to. And whatever house that is, you should expect that some of the topics associated with that house will become activated or will become more prominent in your life in some way during the course of that year. For example, if it comes to the second house, then financial matters may become more prominent for you in that year. If the profection comes to the seventh house, then relationships may become more prominent in some way in that year. 10th house is career and so on and so forth, right?
LS: Yeah, yeah. And we’ll get to the differences in how that can play out. But basically, it will pretty much always activate at least one theme of that house. Every house has multiple themes that could be relevant to it, so it’s not the case that it will definitely activate all of the possible themes in a house for your year of life, but at least one of them. And the other thing I often like to say about this is sometimes because like we were mentioning earlier, you’re not going to have like a major event happen every single year of your life, hopefully, that would be eventful. Because of that, sometimes the themes are activated in more low-key ways and sometimes in an actual event or something more avert or external, but sometimes they can be more like things that are just going on more than usual in the background of your life that year.
CB: Right. And then another point is that, obviously, since there’s only 12 signs and you’re counting through one sign each year, every 12 years, there’s going to be repetition where it comes back to the same house. And this is actually one of the more interesting parts of the technique because sometimes at those points, you’ll see repetitions in your life have the same topic coming up over and over again, but in slightly different ways. Sometimes there can be in a 12-year period when the profection repeats itself, sometimes there can be an exact repetition of events where you had one experience in one area of your life during one profection year where it activated a certain house. And then 12 years later, when it comes back to that house, you can sometimes see a repetition of very similar events. Other times, it’s not an exact repetition, but there’s just some formal similarity between the topics that came up in one year and the topics that came up 12 years later so that you see a variation of the same topic in some way.
LS: Yeah, I have one that I like to share that is pretty low key, but it’s like a good example of like, I had a third house profection year and my sister and I were suddenly living in the same area for that year. And so, for the entirety of that year, we just talked a lot more than usual and hung out a lot more than usual. It’s not necessarily that like major events had to happen around siblings, which will be a third house topic, but that year compared to the other 11 years around it, we talked a lot more. And then 12 years later, within a couple weeks of me switching into third house year, my sister messaged me and said she was going to get married later in the year and so we ended up just chatting more than usual again the entirety of that year leading up to planning the wedding. So, it’s that kind of thing that can repeat like that. It wasn’t the same specifics, but you can see the theme repeated.
CB: Right. What were some of the other examples that were used in your lecture? I mean, one of the famous ones that we use that I really liked was Hillary Clinton’s chart where every year in her life when she would go into a 10th house profection year for career, she would become very prominent, but she would also sometimes run into major difficulties with her reputation and her public profile. One of the years was back when Bill Clinton became president in 1992 and she became more prominent and became First Lady, but also started trying to head up getting universal health care and subsequently ran into major problems during the course of that 12-month period as a result of that. And then a couple of repetitions later, it came back to her 10th house profection year in 2016 and she became very prominent when she became the Democratic front runner, the nominee for the Democratic Party, but then subsequently lost the presidential election in that year.
LS: Yeah, yeah. A lot of similar dynamics happened in those repetitions of her 10th house years where she would become really prominent, but also would have like a lot of attacks against her and things like that.
CB: Right. Okay. A lot of what we want to focus on in the workshop is examples like that where start thinking of the profections in different years of your life and what house was activated. And if anybody has any good examples of that to share, then during the course of this, we’d like to collect some of those. But first, let’s do a few example charts just to really demonstrate the technique and demonstrate how it’s supposed to work and what we’re talking about. Did we give a handout for the significations?
LS: Yeah, this should be the third page of your handout if you have handouts in front of you.
CB: The third page of the handout is just a table that lists some of the basic significations of the 12 houses so that you know from a traditional standpoint, what types of topics might be expected to come up in certain profection years and then you can calculate in your head different profection years in your past and see if those topics did in fact come up in those years. This is following a more traditional approach so some of the significations of certain houses are extremely positive and some of the more challenging houses are extremely negative. That doesn’t necessarily mean that when you go into a difficult profection year that it’s always going to be the worst-case scenario, but it just gives you an idea of some of the potential challenges that could come up in certain years.
LS: And this is also not an exhaustive list. If you’re new to looking at house significations there are other themes in addition to these, but these are some of the main ones.
CB: And that’s one of the things that we really want to draw out in the chart examples if anybody has any good ones to share today is just it’s one thing to see abstractly the idea that the signification of career should come up in the 10th house profection year. So it’s one thing to know that abstractly and it’s another thing to hear a person who’s lived through a 10th house profection year talk about and describe what’s been going on for the past 12 months in that specific year for them when it comes to their career and the different, let’s say, ups or downs that they’ve experienced. And sometimes that’s something that only comes out during the course of a consultation setting when you’re reading somebody’s chart, but it’s also something that in the past we’ve been able to draw out and see glimpses of in meetings like this by sharing chart examples with each other.
All right, so let’s do our first chart example. This is one of my favorites. This is the birth chart of Lisa Marie Presley, who’s the daughter of Elvis Presley. And this was a famous second house profection that I found from when she turned 25 years old, which is a second house profection year. Like I said, she was the daughter of Elvis, the famous singer Elvis, but he died when she was nine years old and he actually left in his will his entire estate was supposed to go to her, his I think only living daughter, only living child. However, he stipulated that she was not to inherit the entire estate until she turned 25 years old. So, if you do the profections, of course, she has Leo rising so we know that the first year of her life, Leo is activated and the first house is activated for the first 12 months of her life. Then it moves to the second house to Virgo for the second year of her life. Then it goes to Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, and it just counts through each of the signs, one sign per year. Eventually, at 12 years old, it came back to Leo and started the cycle over again. Then at 13, it went to Virgo. At 14, it went to Libra. And it just kept going around until eventually at 24, it started the cycle over again a second time at Leo. And then at 25 years old, it went to Virgo and activated her second house for that entire 12-month period of her life. So basically, she started a second house profection year the day that she turned 25 years old. And in her actual life on the very day that she turned 25 based on the will that her father left her, she inherited his entire estate and suddenly had access to it, which was estimated to be worth over $100 million. Looking at her chart, that’s different compared to not everybody that turns 25 years old obviously inherits $100 million. So, what is the difference between let’s say some random person’s chart versus her chart, or what does she have going for her in her chart that might indicate that the activation of her second house could be a positive year for her in terms of finances? The Part of Fortune? Okay. Somebody said the Part of Fortune is in the second house. That’s a good point. Jupiter? Yeah, that’s major. Jupiter is in the second house in her birth chart. It’s actually also made more positive because it’s a day chart so Jupiter is more positive for people who are born during the day.
LS: Yeah, so we’re going to be looking at the ruler of the house and planets placed in the house.
CB: Yeah. Our initial primary consideration and initial modifying factor is just what planets are placed in the sign or in the house that the profection has come to? Because that’s going to modify the quality of the year, for better or worse. If it comes to the second house and you have positive planets there, then in most instances and other factors aside, you might experience more positive or subjectively positive events with respect to the topics associated with that house. Okay. There’s some other factors, though, there’s one other factor in this chart that actually describes the context in which the year went though, and that’s the ruler of the second house, Mercury, which is activated as the timelord for the year. And what house is Mercury placed in in the chart? In the eighth house? So, what’s the eighth house associated with? Death, mortality and inheritance and also other people’s money or other people’s finances. The second house is like your finances or money or possessions that belong to you whereas the eighth house is money or financial matters that belong to other people. That gets really interesting because that starts to further specify the more and more you go into the details the specific context of how that year in her life worked out for her, which is that she had a very positive financial windfall with Jupiter in her second house and it was connected to an inheritance from her father who had passed away years earlier.
LS: Yeah, so I think that’s impressive enough on its own. That’s the basics of what we’d be looking at today. We’d also be applying any other rules with regard to the chart. For instance, if anyone’s curious in this particular chart, her Mercury ruling the second house of finances in the eighth house of inheritance is actually in a mutual reception with that Jupiter in the second house of finances, so Mercury is ruling Jupiter and Jupiter is ruling Mercury and so that actually is one of the factors that makes it particularly stand out compared to like an average person.
CB: Right. And Jupiter itself is actually traditionally the ruler of the eighth house of inheritance and it’s in her second house of finances, which just increases and magnifies the connection between the second house and the eighth house in her chart and explains why it’s such an intense and particularly notable instance of somebody having a major inheritance instead of just some minor thing. There’s other instances where somebody might have the second and eighth house connected, but it might be at a much lesser levels so that they have somebody die who’s close to them and they inherit like $1,000 versus $100 million. Yeah. Okay. Those are the two of the primary interpretive principles that we’re going to focus on today which is, what planets are in the sign that the profection has come to? What are the topics associated with that house? And then secondarily, what is the ruler of that house doing and where is it located in the chart?
Another example, this is a third house profection here. This is the birth chart of Robert Kennedy, who was the brother of US President John F. Kennedy. Robert Kennedy, he sadly turned 38 years old two days before his brother was assassinated, and 38 years old is a third house profection year. So basically, he has Taurus rising and he switched into a Cancer profection year, which is his third whole sign house, two days prior to that event. And the third house, of course, is the primary house that’s associated with siblings. One of the questions you might have at this point is why was it such a negative event that was associated with that in his life? Because it’s not really explained by the planets in the house in this example because he doesn’t really have any planets there. He has the Lot of Fortune there and he has the north node in Cancer, but the quality of the outcome is actually more described by the condition of the ruler of the house in his chart. The ruler of his third house of siblings is the Moon, which is located at 28° of Capricorn and the next aspect, the applying aspect that the Moon is making, the very next aspect that it will make is an out of sign square with Mars. So basically, the ruler of his third house of siblings is applying to a square with Mars. And Mars is also the most difficult planet in his chart because he was born with a day chart and Mars tends to be more challenging for people who are born during the day. Do you have any comments about this one?
LS: Yeah. No, I was just going to mention the sect like you just did, but you can see that Mars is also super angular as well so that we emphasize it further in his chart when it’s activated. Yeah, it’s right on the Descendant there.
CB: Does anybody have any questions about this example or any questions in general up to this point about the technique? No? Pretty straightforward. Okay. I want to mention just a few other examples just to really drive the point home of the different things that we want to be looking for as we think about our own lives and before we start sharing some examples from the audience. This is an example of a client who turned 39 years old and he went into a fourth house profection year. The general statement I made was something like there should be a greater focus on the home and living situation during the course of this year and what ended up happening is that later that year, his house caught on fire and burned to the ground. That was a one-time event that wasn’t necessarily, his house wasn’t on fire the entirety of the year, but there was this one major event where his house caught on fire and burned to the ground and that was one of the most defining events of that year, certainly. And then it led to a whole period, of course, of not having a house and having to relocate somewhere else and all of the things associated with that. There’s some reasons for that in the birth chart. But actually, one of the primary things that happened that helped to time the nature and the quality of the event is what happened is that by transiting Mars the day that his house caught on fire, it moved into his fourth house and it conjoined the degree of his IC at 3° of Capricorn. We can see his IC down there at 3° of Capricorn in the chart and what happens is if you tracked it in the ephemeris, Mars came in the sky exactly the 3° of Capricorn the day that his house caught on fire. This brings up one of the other interpretive principles for profections which is that when the profection comes to a specific sign and activates that house, any transits that go through that house are also activated at that time.
LS: Yeah, transits through that house in particular and also transits to or from the ruler. And that starts piling up a bunch of considerations that we won’t get to fully look at today probably during the meeting, but that’s just something like a takeaway for you to remember looking at things later on as well if you research past years of your lives is like Chris said, it’s not necessarily something that’s going to be happening the whole year. But if you’re timing specific events that might occur, you might look at when transits will go through the profected house of the year and also transits to or from the traditional ruler of the year.
CB: Right. The variations in the transits, that’s one of the reasons why there can be variations in the profections in 12-year periods and not necessarily be an exact repetition every 12 years because even though the profection will repeat the same houses every 12 years and let’s say for example, in this profection year, he came to a fourth house profection year and then 12 years later, he would have a repetition of the same fourth house profection year, the transits are not going to be exactly the same every 12 year period and that’s what allows there to be some variation. So occasionally, the transits though do repeat and that can sometimes indicate a repetition of more specific events. But normally, especially with outer planet transits like Saturn, they’re going to be different in 12-year increments. And sometimes you’ll have really good transits in that 12-year period and other times, you’ll have more challenging transits that happen in that 12-year period.
LS: And that’s another way to see like how notable that year might be with regard to the themes of that house is just how active the transits will be from that birthday to the next with regard to and from the traditional ruler.
CB: Right. We could keep going through chart examples or we could try to take some at this point from the audience.
LS: Why don’t we see? Does anyone in the audience already is thinking of any profection examples that you’ve noticed for a particular age of your life? If you haven’t, we can still go through a couple more examples. But if you have… Okay, it looks like one. Two? Okay.
CB: You have one in the back.
LS: We have two? Okay, two.
CB: We’re going to have people come up to the microphone to share their story just so everybody can hear it and so we can also get it on the recording. You were a speaker last month?
Joseph Gnomes: Yes.
CB: What’s your name again?
Joseph Gnomes: Joseph Gnomes.
Joseph Gnomes: Thanks. This year, I’m in an Aries profected year, seventh house, so Mars is the timelord, obviously. Mars in my chart rules Scorpio and rules Aries, my money house and my relationships house.
CB: Do you mind sharing your birth date, actually?
Joseph Gnomes: Yeah, January 25th, 1989 11:23 p.m. Denver.
CB: And is your Ascendant Libra, 21 Libra? All right, there it is.
Joseph Gnomes: All right.
LS: And how old are you?
Joseph Gnomes: I am 30.
CB: Okay, so we’re talking about this year of your life? And you’re in a seventh house profection yeah. Okay.
Joseph Gnomes: And as you can see in my chart, my Mars is square my natal Mercury. And so, at the onset of my Mars return, which happened around February 10th-ish that given week, I got into a total loss car accident when the Moon joined up with Mars and Uranus right there pretty close to the Mars return. So just about before the Mars return, the car accident begun and it left me upside down on the vehicle. And that was a financed vehicle I only had for six years so my relationship is a financial agreement with the car company, so I was left upside down on that vehicle. And then in late June, I purchased another vehicle. And at the onset of the Mars waxing square to the natal Mars, I got in another total loss vehicle accident and at least that vehicle was protected with GAP but it left me with a scar on my wrist, a little bit of injury and so yeah, I’m going to lay low on purchasing a vehicle at the Mars opposition.
CB: Sure, both of those were not just like a physical injury and having a car accident, but also you lost basically a bunch of money in both instances financially.
Joseph Gnomes: Yeah, yeah. And the legal matters involved with it with having the insurance company involved because Mercury is involved so Mercury rules cars, but also rules my ninth house so that’s where the insurance companies have been really involved in with dealing with the vehicle. I’m going to lay low and cautious on buying a vehicle until the next profected cycle when Venus is timelord.
LS: Yeah. That’s really notable that your time lord is in the eighth house and if people aren’t aware of the eighth house compared to the second house, the second house is more of your direct income and possessions and like basic finances, but the eighth is often like loss of finances or debts or money you owe. If you have like a financed vehicle, that would be like an eighth house thing and that’s where your Mars is.
Joseph Gnomes: Yeah, yeah. And so, the only good aspect that’s happened with the Mars transits is just recently I had the Mars waxing trine to the natal Mars and that involved with contract payments and tax refunds all coming in all at once during that week cycle that that aspect had begun and made for a good vacation. But so far, it’s about like the relationships are like not so much love relationships as they are like business or professional relationships that are like they are agreements of some kind if that makes sense. Yeah.
CB: Yeah. Well, it’s interesting because Aries is activated and Mars becomes the ruler of the year and Mars is located in the eighth house of other people’s finances and money that is owed. But Mars in the birth chart is also the ruler of the second house traditionally, which is your own finances, so it’s tied in in two different ways to financial matters in your life by being placed in the eighth house and being the ruler of the second house and that seems to be one of the reasons why it’s really activating those topics of financial matters at that time. And then secondarily, because it’s Mars almost exactly square Mercury and Mercury is actually retrograde nataly in the birth chart at 3° of Aquarius, that could be where some of the mishaps involving driving or transportation is coming into play.
Joseph Gnomes: Yeah. And exactly 12 years prior in 2007, it was my first ever car accident. I got rear ended.
LS: I was going to ask if you’ve ever had that before. Well, I mean, it’s interesting too because, of course, Mercury is the general significator of transportation but the ruler of the third can also be because it’s like short distance travel, which is like driving around town and that is ruled by Jupiter in your chart and that’s in the same sign with Mars. And so that gets activated as well. We’re clearly doing a complicated example here that’s bouncing around a few houses but yeah, there’s that piece. And Mars is almost exactly trine your Uranus too bringing up those sudden happenings when Mars is activated.
Joseph Gnomes: Yeah, yeah. And I’ve been lucky to not get totally injured or anything with the Mars trine Saturn and also have like long lasting agreements or being able to pay off the vehicle. So yeah, it’s just been a crazy Mars cycle.
CB: Sure. And it’s also a night chart so Mars is less malefic compared to how it could be so that’s actually not the worst-case scenario but instead, the usual keyword for Mars in the night chart is like surmountable difficulties so it’s like things that come up that are annoying or even sometimes traumatic, but it’s the like what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger or at least it’s not as bad as it could be. It’s not that you didn’t obviously like die in a car wreck or you like get injured in a major way that you were able to walk away both times
Joseph Gnomes: Yeah, yeah. And that’s what I’ve been going through this year is just the Mars transits have been the most notable peak times like transits to the natal Mars by other planets which indicated better times of the year like transits by Mars to other natal planets were also indicative of things so I was able to expect financial things once it came to the Mars trine, I was just looking forward to that.
CB: Right. Yeah. And that’s great that the transits to the exact placement of the lord of the year are what really timed when the event occurred.
Joseph Gnomes: Yeah, exactly. Like I said, it was the Mars return and the Mars waxing square. Then the easy time was the Mars trine. So, I’m just going to try to do my best to not drive when November rolls around.
CB: Brilliant, awesome. That’s a good example. Thanks for sharing that.
LS: All right, someone else’s hand was here? Okay. There’s one over there, one over there, one over there. Yeah. Do you want to go, Annie? Okay.
CB: Sure. Hi.
Annie: Hi, I’m Annie and it’s 10/14/80.
CB: 10/14/80 ?
Annie: Yeah, 1980. It might not pick out the exact… I’m not kind of sure. It’s 2:39 p.m. in Decatur, Illinois. ’80.
CB: 1980, not ’89, okay.
Annie: I’m flattered.
CB: That’s all right. Just step a little bit closer to the mic.
LS: Yeah, just talk right into the mic. There you go.
CB: Okay. Do you have 29 Capricorn rising?
Annie: That’s right.
CB: Okay, perfect.
Annie: This was when I was 35, so 12th house year, and I was working as a waitress at a restaurant and I was working outside a lot and I developed this skin condition called rosacea, and my skin would get really inflamed and so people were constantly asking me if I was sunburned or if I had just gone skiing or if I needed sunscreen. And so, I realized that I had an anger problem and I thought it was interesting too that it was like a skin thing which is the barrier between yourself and others with the Moon-Neptune. But what I did is I decided that I was really tired of dealing with people and I didn’t really like customer service anymore, so I quit. And what I did is I started work at an art studio and I was cleaning the art studio and then eventually started cleaning houses, which allowed me many hours alone and so I started listening to podcasts and that’s when I started studying astrology was when I was able to listen to podcasts. And so, I thought that was interesting that Jupiter, the ruler of the 12th house is in the ninth house with Venus and it’s in Virgo with the cleaning and learning and making things beautiful. When I was looking at this, I was like, okay, that’s a pretty perfect example with the anger and then like the poor boundaries, but then like it turned into something good where I could learn and make money, but also learn stuff, so yeah.
CB: Yeah, that’s amazing. That’s a great example. Okay, so let’s break it down. You were 35 years old, so you went into a 12th house profection year. What are some of the significations that we wrote down on the 12th house handout?
LS: I don’t know about the handout, the 12th house year is often coincide with spending more time alone, which you definitely mentioned.
CB: Yeah. But the initial one was just the illness that came out of nowhere, which was really interesting to me because it was one of the fundamental things is it was like a redness. It caused redness in your face and red, of course, is the color of Mars. And Mars is located in the 12th house in the birth chart at 1° of Sagittarius. And we see the Sun up in the 10th house in the top half of the chart so we know that this is a day chart. So therefore, Mars in a day chart like we said earlier is always the more difficult planet so we tend to see some of the more challenging significations associated with Mars come to the forefront. Mars redness, Mars can also indicate like inflammation, burning and things like that. It’s in the 12th house, and one of the primary topics associated with the 12th house can be illnesses or sickness, so right there we have that initial thing where there’s like an illness or a sickness that’s related to Mars that comes up in that profection year. Okay, so that’s the first part. And then the second part is you had a feeling of like you were in a job but you wanted to not be as social or you wanted to pull away from that job because you said you didn’t want to be around people or something?
Annie: Yeah, I just got tired of people asking me about my face and making comments about it, so I just hid at home in my little mountain cabin for a while and then got this other job.
CB: That’s a huge, like the ideas of isolation and wanting to be alone or sometimes needing to be alone, sometimes being forced to be isolated in some way are huge 12th house topics and sometimes very common topics that come up in 12th house profection years.
LS: Yeah, it’s an incredibly common topic. Just the specifics differ as to like a why you go to isolation and whether it’s proactive or reactive. Yours sounds like a little bit of both. Yeah, 12th house years are very much times to pull back and be by yourself more often. And then we look at the ruler part, which you mentioned already. Right, Jupiter is ruling your 12th house and is placed in the ninth house. Astrology is associated with the ninth house, of course, higher learning, and so forth so that’s great. And that’s such an interesting combination too because if you’re born during the day, then that Mars in the 12th house is the most challenging planet, but the Jupiter ruling it in the ninth is the most positive, all other factors being equal. So that’s a really interesting sequence you had of like pulling back and being alone because of the inflammation, but then that driving you towards like a positive ninth house topic. Yeah.
CB: Yeah. And sometimes that comes up where there’s an old interpretive principle in the Hellenistic and Medieval traditions that planets in the house indicate the initial experience in the first part of the matter whereas the condition of the ruler of the house indicates the outcome in the second part of the matter. In this case, it would have been very literal that in the first part of the year, it was more like running into the issues related to Mars, but later in the year, the outcome being more positive because of the condition of Jupiter the ruler. Okay. Were there any other points? I mean, the other one was that there was some Neptune stuff that was activated in terms of wanting to become more artistic or getting more into art that year.
Annie: Well, no, I mean, I was working at an art studio. I worked with artists, but I’m not like doing… It was mostly just like I think the poor boundaries or whatever as far as like Neptunian like letting things in that maybe I shouldn’t have and with the skin being the boundary, but not being able to keep the anger out or in, I guess. Yeah.
LS: And that can be a pure like physical thing when that’s activated too is just your body being more permeable and reacting because of that. Yeah.
CB: Right, becoming more sensitive. Sure. Yeah, that’s a great example. Thanks for sharing that. Okay. That was a good 12th house example and showed how the topics of the house but also the ruler can come into play. Yeah. All right. Did we have another example? Yeah.
Valerie: Hello. I don’t think I’m as knowledgeable, but from what I see–
LS: What’s your name?
Valerie: I’m Valerie and my birthday is March 14th, 1982 at 2:28 p.m.
LS: Okay. And the location?
Valerie: Wheat Ridge, Colorado
LS: Wheat Ridge, Colorado.
CB: All right. Is your rising sign Leo? Okay.
Valerie: I thought it was interesting that I’m 37 so it shows that I’m in a second year profection. And this September, every one of the planets transited my second house and I just recently decided to put out a resume and start a new job and I just got a new job and Uranus just went into my 10th house. And so that would just be an example of that actually starting and being activated in my 37th year when the signs were going through my house, so I thought that was cool. And the ruler of that house, it looks like it’s supposed to be in my eighth house, but it’s actually in my seventh house. That’s the part I don’t know what that means and I’m interested in…
LS: What kind of job did you get?
Valerie: As an aesthetician. Yeah, so from a real estate broker and a dancer and I decided to start working as an aesthetician. I do all three, but that just came to the surface.
CB: Okay. Yeah, that’s a perfect example because you just had a huge pile up of like four or five planets in Virgo this month in September.
Valerie: And I hate filling out resumes. I don’t know why I did.
LS: Yeah, that’s a great example and a really common more like average thing that happens like getting a job when planets are transiting the second when you’re in a second house year. Yeah, that’s great.
CB: Yeah. Second house profection year so we would expect financial matters or how the person makes their livelihood to be more prominent in that year and then the timing of when the major event happens. Your birthday was way back in March, but it wasn’t until we had this pile up of so many planets moving into Virgo in September that there was the real turning point.
Valerie: I think that’s why I was like, wow, that’s so interesting and that’s what I got out of it. The only part I don’t understand and I want to know more about is the rulership when you had explained. How does that affect it, that Mercury rulership where it’s at and what it would mean in relation to thisy. That would be interesting to know more about because that’s a piece I don’t know yet. Yeah.
CB: It’s complicated because since we also acknowledged that with your Midheaven being at 1° of Taurus that Uranus having recently moved into that sign, and I think Uranus actually stationed recently in mid-August in Taurus, that’s also like tied into this in terms of sudden and relatively not completely unexpected, but a somewhat sudden change in terms of your career focus and in terms of your overall like what you’re doing for a career that Uranus station in Taurus is playing a role as well and the ruler of that is Venus in Aquarius in the seventh house. So that’s playing a role as well and it’s complicating things here in terms of how much that’s part of what’s going on or is playing a role versus what role Mercury might play in the eighth house this year as the lord of the year.
Valerie: I’ve also like started all kinds of astrology classes. I’ve taken them for a long time and I’ve taken tarot and all that stuff, but that’s something that’s just like one after another. I’ve been doing more so this year, too. So, I don’t know how that played out, but I thought that was interesting and I thought I’d share.
CB: Yeah. And so, some of the things that can come up with the ruler of the second and the eighth is like financial matters being tied in with other people’s finances, which in Joseph’s case had to do with issues of like debt or money that was owed to other people and issues with that. But other times, it can mean like a partner’s finances or if the person is in a relationship, somehow the partner’s finances becoming intertwined with theirs. One of the tricky things since you’re only halfway into the year is that there’s some event that may not have occurred yet or some circumstances that might still be coming up that could be tied into that placement. So, sometimes when doing a consultation with a client, we’ll walk them back and see if they can remember what happened 12 years earlier or what happened 12 years before that. And sometimes if you can identify the repetition, you can then anticipate by projecting that out in the future what types of events the person might expect to have come up in the rest of that profection year.
LS: True. Yeah, a couple of other topics could be like taxes or loans or things like that, mortgages. So sometimes it’s the case that when a planet or when a house is activated and then the ruler is activated, it can point to more than one thing that year and so one of the things could be getting the new job, but there could be another like eighth house topic at some point during the year related to the placement. But yeah, so it could be, yeah.
Valerie: Yes, I guess I’ll still find out, but I thought that was interesting. Thank you.
LS: You’re welcome. Thank you.
CB: And lastly, it’s also the ruler of the 11th house so it could be when the ruler of the year is activated, it activates the house that it rules that the profection has come to, but also because that planet rules sometimes two houses, it’ll activate the other house that it rules as well. So, it could bring in 11th house topics related to friends or groups or social movements. Yeah.
LS: Right. Yeah, yeah. I was just going to say is this the first time you’ve come to this group?
Valerie: This one, yeah.
LS: Okay, great.
CB: Okay, nice. And it should be positive but somewhat unexpected because Mercury’s squaring Uranus within 3°, but it has a nice applying trine with reception with Jupiter in a day chart at 9° of Scorpio. So, what is the delineation for that like positive financial interactions involving friends but that are unexpected or potentially disruptive?
LS: Yeah, it could be. Or is the new job like one-on-one type of things or is it like a 40-hour a week thing?
Valerie: No, it’s part time so I guess that’s the part that’s like a little confusing when looking at mine is because they do so many different things, that there’s different aspects, but it’s more one on one and it’s like opposite everything else I would do because it’s more one on one slow, mellow, healing. And then the other types of things I do is like nightclub, packed, people, crazy, totally different. And then I go to a lot of social meetups, I learn astrology, I learn tarot, I do a lot of things like that so I could see how 11th house would be in there and it could be anywhere, so yeah
LS: Well, I was wondering because of the eighth house being other people’s money and so if it’s square to Uranus, that can very frequently be like one off or payments from other people.
Valerie: It’s in my seventh house, but it’s a Pisces, 1° Pisces, so it would still have eighth house influence.
LS: It just depends on what house system you’re using. For the purpose of like this, for instance, we’re interpreting it in the whole sign house, but yeah, it could be also relevant to the seventh house.
Valerie: I’ve tried to figure that. Okay, then that’s good to know. Thank you. Yeah.
CB: Cool. Thanks for sharing that.
LS: Yeah, thank you.
CB: All right. Yeah, that was another good example.
LS: Great examples so far. Thank you all.
CB: Does anybody else have any good examples that they feel like sharing with the group at this point? Yeah, you have one? All right. What’s your name?
Kathy: Kathy, October 3rd, 1958. Danville, Pennsylvania.
LS: What time?
CB: What time?
Kathy: Oh, 8:25 a.m. That was daylight time, I think. Danville, Montour County.
CB: How do you spell that?
Kathy: D A N V I L L E
CB: Danville, Kentucky?
Kathy: Pennsylvania Montour County
LS: You have 24 Libra rising?
Kathy: Correct, Spica.
CB: 23? Okay. And you shared an example your first one for the eclipses meeting, right? Thanks for sharing that, by the way. That was like an intense example, but I really appreciated that you-
Kathy: This is not so intense, just simple and straightforward… When I was 20, I was in a ninth house year of profections and I graduated college, got my degree. And then I turned 21, and that was the 10th house year and that’s when I started my career. End of story.
LS: Yeah. Yeah, thank you. I mean, it can be as straightforward as that.
CB: Yeah, just simple topics coming up. And sometimes seeing the succession of topics is one of the cool things where you’re at one profection year and you can see some of the topics associated with that house come up, but then you have your solar return or your birthday and you move into the next house, and then seeing a shift where suddenly other topics in a different part of your chart are coming up in the adjacent house is sometimes one of the cooler parts of the technique. Yeah. Cool. All right. Thanks for sharing that. All right. You have one, Drew?
CB: Okay. What’s your birth date?
Drew: February 18th, 1985.
CB: February 18th, 1985. What time?
LS: AM or PM? 9:11 AM or PM?
CB: What city?
Drew: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, the pit.
LS: Is it 19 Aries rising?
Drew: 19 Aries rising.
CB: Okay. So how old were you for this example?
Drew: Oh, this example is the now. My current 11th house, I believe, it’s my 11th house profection. This is a new idea or new teaching for me.
LS: So you’re 34?
Drew: I am 34 years old.
LS: Okay, so that’s 11th house year.
CB: Okay, so it’s activating Aquarius where you’ve got a stellium of four planets, Jupiter, the Moon, Mercury, and the Sun?
CB: Okay. And the ruler is Saturn, which is located in Scorpio in the eighth whole sign house in a day chart. Okay. So what’s going on?
Drew: So I see that the 11th house is the good spirit of groups, friends and alliances. And just recently out of nowhere, I became a producer for TEDx events, and I’m gathering huge groups of people and alliances of people in good spirits.
CB: Wow. How did that come about? How did you fall into that?
Drew: I got fired.
CB: Okay. When did that happen?
Drew: That happened like three or four months ago.
CB: Okay. So your birthday was in February, so not long after your birthday, you got fired?
Drew: Uh-huh, yeah.
CB: And then you were trying to figure out what to do and then how did the TEDx thing happen?
Drew: And then I was approached by TEDx.
LS: Was that like a head hunter thing or did you know someone who knew them?
Drew: I knew someone that had recommended me to them and then I was approached by them.
LS: Okay. So that was a little bit of a leading question because oftentimes with 11th house years there’s some connection, there’s some social connection.
Drew: Yeah, that’s right.
CB: So now you’re organizing thing that involves a lot of people. It involves groups and is very much more social. So it’s activating that whole stellium part of your chart suddenly and somewhat unexpectedly. It’s interesting that this year, especially not long after your birthday is when Uranus moved permanently into Taurus and started squaring that Jupiter placement that’s at two degrees of Aquarius in your 11th house, and also opposing Pluto at four degrees of Scorpio in your eighth house. So on the one hand, there’s like an unexpected disruption in your life where you got fired where Uranus going through your second house is perhaps interrupting or causing a disruption in your livelihood and your finances. But then it’s also an unexpected change that leads to a more positive development in terms of friends and groups. Why did they fire you suddenly? Do you know?
Drew: You know, it was a personal issue between me and another man there.
CB: Okay. Got it. Cool. And so that’s been happening since when did you say like April?
Drew: Probably three months ago.
LS: Okay, so June-ish, summer.
CB: Sure. I’m just trying to think of any transits or things that are going on.
LS: Yeah. I’d have to look them up. It’s interesting that it is activating Jupiter, of course, since you were born during the day, that’s the most positive planet in your chart. And arguably, this is like a really great thing to land for you.
Drew: Yeah. And the Jupiter is conjunct my natal Uranus in Sag, and it doesn’t seem like my 11th house has much going on in it currently as far as transits. But I was noticing that my six house is full of a lot of different actions. So I’m wondering if this is going to be a total devastation of an event.
CB: That there’s a lot going on with your sixth house?
LS: Well, the planets are transiting through Virgo.
Drew: Yeah, my six house of bad fortune seems very active right now with transits.
LS: I mean, it doesn’t always have to be so stark as the way that’s written up. I mean, the sixth house also is just daily activity. Oftentimes when there’s transits through the sixth, that’s like you’re just doing like you’re doing a lot like every day, you’re really busy. And also with regard to your job, oftentimes, although sometimes also that plus other things.
CB: Yeah, plus most of the Virgo transits are very short, inner planet transits that are just going to come and go very quickly right now. And most of that’s already ending. I think, as of today, Mercury and Venus just moved out of Virgo last night. So some of that’s moving on. Some of the career stuff that’s happening also is probably tied in to Saturn is going through Capricorn, which is your 10th house. So some of that’s related. You have a day chart, so it’s like surmountable difficulties. So it’s not worst case scenario, but it’s like, again, this is a scenario where a not very positive thing happened, a setback happened, and that you got fired, but then you were able to go on and find something better after that. So that’s kind of a very cliche or straightforward like Saturn day chart type transit through the 10th house. And I want to point that out just to point out that profections is important and it can help you identify some major topics or themes or planets that are activated in a given year. But obviously we still have to take into account other things that are going on in the chart like major outer planet transits like that.
LS: Yeah, major transits, eclipses, other timing techniques. So it’s not the only thing happening, although it can definitely pinpoint important stuff as we can see.
Drew: In that Pluto in the… Is Pluto on the 10th house there or transiting the 10th house? What kind of juju is that in that Midheaven?
LS: I mean, that sounds like what you’ve already been doing, which is like a major transformation in the type of career that you have or the type of role that you have professionally.
CB: Yeah. And we’re actually getting, we’re not too far away from Pluto will eventually ingress into Aquarius, and that’s going to be much more significant I feel like for you when it goes into your 11th house, because then you’ll see what Pluto tends to do is exaggerate and magnify things. So it will like magnify and blow up if there’s themes already going on in that house with respect to friends and groups and organizational efforts, it may magnify that and make it even bigger than it was previously.
Drew: But it’s magnifying that good spirit potentially if I have a good spirit?
LS: This was also the year that you started coming to the group, right? Has that been since your birthday?
Drew: I think it’s been about two years every now and then.
LS: Okay, not this year.
CB: That was actually back probably in his ninth house.
LS: Ninth house, yeah. Cause I remember the link between your ninth and 11th being activated.
Drew: Cool. Well, thank you.
CB: Yeah, that’s a good example. Thanks for sharing that.
LS: Thank you.
CB: All right. Were there any new interpretive principles from that that we should like reiterate?
LS: I don’t think so. I think those were all the same ones.
CB: I mean, one of them is just stelliums, this is sometimes like if a person has a stellium in a certain house, then pay attention to the profection year when it comes to that stellium because it’s really going to stand out. You have that? Okay. Do you feel like sharing? Do you have a specific example or just?
Unknown Speaker: [unintelligible 1.11.26]
CB: Okay. It’s more something you know that you have, but you’re not sure how will work out yet?
Unknown Speaker: Yeah.
CB: Okay. Got it. Maybe afterwards just cause we’re doing more past examples at the moment. All right.
LS: Any other examples in the audience? There’s one in the back.
CB: Hi, what’s your name?
Ann: Ann, my birthday is April 9th, 1975, 1:19 AM.
LS: Did you say 1:19 AM?
Ann: Yeah, in Boston, Mass.
CB: All right. Is your Ascendant two degrees of Capricorn?
Ann: It is, yeah. I just realized every seven profection year has been pretty bad.
CB: Every seventh house profection year? Okay, so you have Capricorn rising and you have Cancer is your seventh whole sign house, and we have Saturn there at 12 degrees of cancer and it’s a night chart because the Sun is below the horizon in the fourth house. Okay. So take us back, do you want to go back to the earliest one or is there one that stands out which is a good starting point?
Ann: At six my parents got divorced, and then at 18 I got dumped by my first boyfriend, and at 30 I had a crazy relationship, and then at 42 I just had some issues with my husband.
CB: Okay, that’s great. Okay. Well, I mean, it’s astrologer great.
LS: Yeah, it’s astrologer great. There’s a hashtag on Twitter that’s #astrologergood. So like not good examples, but like wow, that really works. That’s what he meant. No, that’s actually a really impressive repetition, not just because it’s the Saturn being activated every seventh year, but it’s also more important for you because Saturn rules your Ascendant and so it’s a primary placement for you being activated during those years.
Ann: And the issues with my husband were around money and Saturn also rules my second house.
CB: Yeah, and the ruler of the Ascendant… In ancient astrology, they called the first house the helm like the helm or the steering wheel of a ship as if the birth chart was like a boat and that you have like a steering wheel and that’s the first house, and that the planet that rules the first house was then said to be the captain or the steersman of the ship. So you’re supposed to pay attention to what house the ruler of the Ascendant is located in because it means that it will often direct the life or that the life is somehow steered towards certain topics based on what house the ruler of the Ascendant is located in. In this instance it would be topics associated with the seventh house and relationships. But at the same time because this is a night chart, we know that Saturn is the most difficult planet and it’s located in the seventh house. So sometimes there’s challenges or difficulties that arise within that context. However, there’s positive mitigating factors. One of them is that Jupiter is in Aries and it is in a superior square where it’s set to be overcoming Saturn by being in the 10th house relative to Saturn. And therefore Jupiter is attempting to, and is somewhat successful in making Saturn more positive than it might be otherwise. Venus is doing something similar in that it’s in the 11th house relative to Saturn. So it’s overcoming through a sign-based sextile to Saturn, which is also offsetting things a little bit. And then finally and most importantly, the ruler of the seventh house. So remember in the earlier example where we talked about how there was an instance where somebody had a difficult placement in the house, but then the ruler was well-placed and there was a difficult thing initially in the life or in the year, but then later things worked out in a more positive way. In this chart, we have a similar setup where the ruler of the seventh house is the Moon because it’s the ruler of Cancer, and it’s located at 21 degrees of Pisces in the third house. And it’s actually applying to a sextile with Venus, and Venus is the most positive planet in the chart because this is a night chart. So we’ve got both sort of a really difficult placement with Saturn in the seventh, but then we have a very positive counter-balancing placement with the ruler of the seventh house.
Ann: Yeah, that’s basically like three counter actions. So that’s pretty good. Thank you.
CB: So could we walk through it more slowly just to like unpack some of the events that happened? Just because sometimes that can give people, even though for us like hearing those four years of your life sort of summarized as a sentence was sort of interesting, for you like actually having lived through that as entire years of your life and defining years of your life, I’m sure it’s even more evocative and interesting. So what was the first one again? So you turn six years old and so that was a seventh house profection year, and what happened in that year of your life?
Ann: My parents got divorced. My mom left my dad and took us to a different state.
CB: Okay. So you’re six years old, you’re living together, you’ve lived your entire life with your parents being together up to that point. And then suddenly, your mom leaves your dad, and you guys end up relocating to a different state. And was that like a major event like before you knew anything about astrology or anything else? Would you say that was like a defining event in your life?
Ann: Yeah. I mean, it was bad.
CB: How did you experience it at the time?
Ann: Just traumatizing. I was very close to my dad, and it was just a bad time.
CB: Okay. Could you stand a little bit closer to the mic? That’s all right. So you took that really hard and that was, would you say that that was like a defining event for you in terms of your early childhood, like growing up and shaping your personality and views on relationships and other things like that?
Ann: Yeah. I mean, there was a lot of fighting. They eventually kind of worked it out and my mom ended up moving just a few miles away from my dad. So we were closer and that was like 12 or 13 or 14 maybe. But yeah, it was a number of kind of rough years.
CB: Sure. Okay. So that was your very first seventh house profection year. So that was the first time that that placement was sort of awakened for a year of your life. And then 12 years later, what was the next one?
Ann: My first boyfriend dumped me.
CB: That was when you were 18?
CB: Okay. So your very first relationship, how long had you guys been together?
Ann: Like two years.
CB: Okay. So it was a long relationship for that early in your life. And was it going relatively well for you as far as you knew up to that point?
Ann: No, not at the end. We kind of were losing touch a little bit. It’s a long story, but he had gone back to Washington. So we were kind of fighting and just drifting apart anyway.
LS: He was living apart from you, is that what you’re saying?
Ann: Yeah, yeah.
LS: Okay. Cause that’s another Saturnian type of principle of like separation and distance.
CB: And then he was the one that decided to end it?
CB: Okay. How was that hard for you at the time?
Ann: Yeah, I was supposed to go to college, and I delayed it the first semester I didn’t end up going because I was upset.
CB: So you didn’t go to college, you delayed going to college for an entire year due to…
Ann: Just one semester, the first semester.
CB: Oh, one semester, due to your reaction to the breakup of your first major relationship. Okay. So you must have been in like, were you depressed at the time?
Ann: Yeah, I guess you could say that.
CB: Okay. Sure. So that was your second seventh house profection year. And then what was your next one?
Ann: At 30, I just got into kind of a crazy relationship with a guy on and off, and it went on for a couple of years. Not very good.
CB: And that would have been also, cause around 30, of course, there’s like the Saturn return. So transiting Saturn would have been coming back and going through Cancer at the time around its natal sign, which would then emphasize that even more. Were there any specifics? Why was that such a crazy relationship or what stands out about it that might be unique compared to like other people’s relationships when they were 30?
Ann: It just was very unstable. He wasn’t very nice, I guess you could say.
CB: Okay. He was like mean to you or like harsh or negative?
Ann: Yeah, kind of.
CB: Okay. All right. So that was 30, and then the most recent one was when?
Ann: 42, two years ago. I don’t want to get into it too much, but it was around money with my husband specifically.
CB: Sure. So just difficulties in that year, but then did you end up making it through that okay?
Ann: Yeah, it’s fine.
CB: So in that instance, it was more of like a temporary challenge or setback that you had to deal with that brought in both the seventh house issues, as well as the second house issues of finances, which Saturn also rules. But once it was over, you were able to move on and it wasn’t necessarily something that stuck with you permanently.
Ann: Yeah, we worked through it. So it’s okay now.
CB: Okay. So that’s good to know. And that could be an important principle is that sometimes when the profections activate a specific house, the topics associated with that house can become more prominent, but it may not indicate a permanent change in the person’s life, but instead more of a temporary or like a transitory activation of those topics. Awesome. Thank you for sharing that. That’s a really good example.
LS: Yeah, thank you. That’s a great repetition.
CB: Yeah, so that really demonstrates one of the things that we were talking about earlier, where sometimes there’s a repetition of similar themes or topics in 12 year increments, especially if that part of the chart that’s activated is like a major part of the person’s life. Like, for example, if it contains a stellium of planets or if the ruler of the Ascendant is located there or something like that, then those 12-year repetitions are going to be more important and are going to sometimes have more significant overlaps, but it’s not always exactly an exact repetition of the events, but it’s just something in that area of the person’s life.
LS: Right, yeah. That was a great example of that kind of thing where it’s activating the same themes of seventh house one-on-one interactions, partnership, etc. But different specifics every time. Yeah. And it’s interesting too, that you had the one at age six and that you remembered that because that’s often the case with like the first round of all the profections is there will be something, but people don’t, may or may not remember later on in their lives, but there will be something that evokes the same themes that will come up later in your adult life. And if you can trace that back, sometimes that’s kind of fascinating.
CB: Yeah. I have to say that’s one of the more annoying things about doing consultations is that most people don’t remember like early events or sometimes don’t remember their chronology until relatively recently. And sometimes there will have been like an important event when a person was younger, but they just won’t remember it or they won’t be able to narrow down the exact dates. Otherwise, you could identify that. The other scenario is that sometimes a person will not consider that thing to be important because they don’t consider it in retrospect to be a defining event in their life when they’re older. But when they’re younger, when they actually experienced it, it was a much more major event for them at the time, relative to being six years old or nine years old or what have you. So I remember for example, when I first started working at my chronology for annual profections, I think I was like very young and I went into a 10th house profection year and I ran for student council president in like elementary school. So that was ultimately not a major event that’s relevant in my life now as an adult or anything that had any significant impact on that so that if somebody asked me about it, I normally wouldn’t remember that as being in any way important. But at the time it was very much important and very much was connected with the fact that I was in a 10th house profection year and very well symbolized that.
LS: Right. So it’s always like age appropriate. So sometimes you have to adjust for that in looking back. But the same kind of symbols of the same kind of energies for good or for bad will be played out during those times. And you can kind of see the links over time, over your like 12-year repetitions if you look back, if you trace things, if you have records at home or your parents do, it can be kind of interesting to trace.
CB: Yeah, definitely. And again, that’s one of the main ways that you can use this technique for prediction is by identifying repetitions in the person’s life. And if there’s a profection year that you’re getting ready to go into in addition to just looking at the natal placements and attempting to interpret them, the best way to make a prediction about the future is to look at your past because your past trajectory and past history of repetitions can sometimes really help to inform you about what might come up in the future.
LS: Yeah. It’ll definitely tell you the flavor or the types of themes that will come up for sure because of the same house being activated. And then as we mentioned earlier in terms of looking forward, you can kind of look at the ephemeris or look at your software and see what are the major transits to or from the ruler of that house for that year? Is that looking more eventful than the past or less eventful?
CB: Yeah. So if Jupiter’s transiting through the profected sign, that could offset things and make them more positive. Whereas if Saturn is transiting through the profected sign, it could offset them and make them a little bit more challenging or what have you. And that also applies to the ruler of the house. So if benefics are transiting over the ruler of the house, which is active, it is the lord of the year, that’s going to make things more positive. If challenging planets are going over the ruler of the year, that’s going to make things a little bit more problematic. Okay. Does anybody else have another example they want to share? Yeah. You have one. What’s your name?
CB: What’s your birth date?
Lynette: February 7th, 1982.
CB: What time?
Lynette: 8:12 PM. I’m going to test both of you guys. Albuquerque.
LS: I know how to spell that.
CB: Did I get anywhere close? Oh, I did. I spelled it correctly. 21 Virgo rising?
CB: Yes. Okay.
Lynette: This is funny because when Ann was just talking about her stuff, I was like, “Oh wait, maybe I do have a couple of things.” And then when you were just talking about your student council run, that filled in one of my gaps. So second house this year, 37, I just recently separated from my boyfriend of 14 years, moved out of his house. When I was 25, I moved to Los Angeles for a job and moved out of the rental house that I was living in that was his. So while I have fully been able to support myself all of this time, like we were in a long-term committed relationship, so he was helping me out. And then I don’t know about the 13 and one, but I’m going to throw it out here because those are the ones. When I was 13, I ran for student council vice-president and did not win. And then when I was one, my parents got divorced, which I was actually looking through my family records this morning and just saw that. I’m going to let you guys put any of that together.
CB: Yeah, that’s great. So I should have outlined at the beginning what the placements are. So you have Virgo rising and you have Mars, Saturn and Pluto all relatively closely conjunct in Libra, all in the second house. And it’s a night chart. So the most difficult planet in the chart is in this house, which is Saturn in Libra and a night chart, and then it’s complemented by Mars and Pluto being on either side of it. Okay. So we would expect more challenging matters to come up during second house profection years. And also since it’s the second house that financial matters would probably be more relevant in those years compared to other years.
LS: Yeah. And it’s interesting that you said with the separation, because of course, Mars then rules your eighth house of your partner’s money, so that’s immediately brought into the picture when the second house is activated as well.
CB: Right, and then the ruler of the second house is Venus, which is located in Capricorn. It’s retrograde at 23 Capricorn, and it’s actually, I think, it’s next aspect must be a square with Saturn.
LS: Yeah, although with reception.
CB: Yeah. It’s a mutual reception with Saturn in Libra. So they’re exchanging houses, they’re in each other’s house and they’re applying to each other. So this is both challenging for Venus to some extent, cause then it has a square with Saturn, but the square, some of the heat, some of the tension is taken off of it so that there’s a potential for a more positive or constructive outcome because there’s the mutual reception, which always acts as a mitigating factor. When there’s a hard aspect between two planets, it can be really difficult, like a square. But if they’re in each other’s signs, the square becomes a little softer. What else is relevant here in terms of the specific placements? The only one that–
Lynette: I think I’m looking forward to 38. It looks a little bit nicer.
CB: Yeah. So you move into Scorpio and into a third house profection year.
LS: Yeah. I mean, so this year with the separation, when did you separate?
LS: Okay. So a few months after the profection year started. And then so you’ve just been kind of covering more financial things or your cost of living has gone up because of the separation?
Lynette: Yeah, I mean basically I’ve just been stocking money away. And I mean, we’ve been just living a shared life and I’m living a single life.
CB: So like themes of financial independence are major this year, but also themes about relationships have been a repetition. And some of that’s honestly, probably coming through the fact that it’s activating Libra and that it’s like Saturn in Libra is part of the delineations, so that Venus’s significations come into play because that’s part of the way to interpret what it means for a planet to be in a certain sign of the zodiac, is what does it mean for the planet that’s in that sign to interact with the ruler of that sign? So it’s Saturn interacting with Venus in this instance. So the first instance of that when you were one you said, was your parents separated.
Lynette: Yeah, they got divorced.
CB: They got divorced in that year. Okay.
Lynette: Which I obviously, I actually didn’t even realize that until this morning when I was looking at their records.
LS: Oh wow, that’s timely.
Lynette: Yeah. I was like, “Wait a second.”
LS: Yeah. And that’s definitely one of the things we were just talking about, one of those things that happens early in your life that the kind of theme will continue to be important later in your life, and in this case that Saturn square Venus.
CB: Right. And it’s an interesting, just the idea of foreshadowing, like there’s something about that in terms of the philosophy and the way that astrology works and the idea that events early in our life can sometimes foreshadow events later in our life and not necessarily be the cause of those events in any direct way but there just be this echo or this repetition of certain themes throughout the person’s life. Yeah. I’m trying to think of what else. Do you have any questions about that?
Lynette: No, I might when I think about this when I get home. Thank you.
CB: Yeah, thank you. That’s a great example. All right. So does anybody have any general questions about the technique at this point about annual profections or how to apply it or things that don’t make sense or anything pretty much anything? Cordelia. So your question, just to repeat it for the recording was, what might you look for if there’s no planets in the house or in the sign in order to figure out what the theme is going to be?
Cordelia: Yeah. [unintelligible 1.32.18]
CB: Sure. I would start with just the topics associated with the house. So if it’s like a ninth house profection year, thinking of ninth house topics like education, travel, foreigners, religion, etc. So topics of the house and then look to the ruler of the house. What is the nature of that planet? Is it benefic or a malefic? Is it well-placed by zodiacal sign and what are the topics associated with the house that it’s located in? And then finally, what is its condition in the chart? Is it afflicted through hard aspects with difficult planets like squares or oppositions or conjunctions with Mars or Saturn, or does it have a positive conditions of the opposite, which is called bonification, where it has conjunctions or sextiles or trines with benefic planets like Venus or Jupiter, which are going to be more positive or affirming. So that’s kind of the sequence I would go through. And then the very last one would be are there any major transits going through the profected house, especially slow outer planet transits that year, because that’s really going to color the nature of your experience of that house in that year. Or finally, if that’s not happening, are there any major transits, especially slow outer planet ones to the ruler of the house in that year? Because that’s then going to color the experience of the year as well.
LS: Yeah. And I would say all of those things plus look back in 12-year increments to see what happened during that year of your life to see if you can see any clues, and especially with regard to the connection between that profected house and the house that the ruler is placed in. Try to see if you can trace any of the kind of keyword connections between those two because that’s typically what should be activated.
CB: Right. Does that answer your question? Okay.
LS: There’s another question here.
CB: Yeah, go ahead.
Unknown Speaker: I find this very interesting. I didn’t know anything about it. I thank you both very much. I’ve been an astrologer for many years. And my question is, do you integrate your technique with transits, progression, solar returns, any of those or none on those?
CB: Sure. So we definitely primarily integrate this technique with transits, and it’s actually really useful for that because sometimes it can tell you… There’s an issue that astrologers sometimes have where you see a bunch of transits happening and you see an important transit coming up, but then it comes and goes. And either there isn’t a major event that happens or it happens in a much different area of the life than you expect. And usually the reason for that is profections because profections can help you narrow down which transits are going to be more important in a given year. So it can become a filtering factor to help you identify ahead of time which transits to pay attention to and which transits maybe won’t be as important in a given year.
Unknown Speaker: That’s very helpful because that often happens. So I’ll try this.
CB: So that’s a major thing. I don’t usually use it together with progressions or solar arcs, do you?
Unknown Speaker: Solar returns, I meant.
CB: So solar returns that’s definitely one, even though I don’t use solar returns as much at this point, I know a lot of astrologers do use profections together with solar returns in order to help identify what parts of the solar return chart are gonna be more important. So they’ll pay more attention to the lord of the year and what its placement and condition is in the solar return chart in order to again, filter or identify things that are more crucial in the solar return chart versus things that are less crucial.
Unknown Speaker: Thank you very much. I got a lot to try now.
CB: Yeah, thank you.
Unknown Speaker: Nice meeting you all.
LS: Yeah, you too.
CB: All right. Was there another… Oh, yeah.
Unknown Speaker: So what are things to look for or learn about the lord of the year overall when you said the condition of the lord of the year? So is that like whether it’s in its detriment or how it’s doing or what would you look for when you’re trying to consider the lord of the year?
CB: Sure. Yeah. So there’s a whole like laundry list of things that I would go through, but the first thing is the zodiacal placement of what sign of the zodiac is the lord of the year in? And is that a sign that it has some rulership over or that it’s traditionally thought to do well in? Or is it a sign that it is traditionally thought to have some difficulty doing well in? So this is the difference between a planet being in its own, let’s call its domicile or its exaltation versus a planet being in the sign of its detriment or its fall. So that’s definitely a good starting point is like the so-called essential dignities. But then other factors are, what house is it placed in and is it located in a house that tends to be more positive or tends to have more positive significations or is it located in a house that tends to have more challenging significations? So generally speaking, the more challenging houses are the sixth, the eighth and the 12th, and the more positive houses are pretty much most of the rest of the houses like the fifth house or the 11th house or the 10th house. So if your planet is located in a difficult house, it might bring up more challenging topics in that year. Whereas if it’s located one of the more positive houses, it might be a little bit easier to deal with. What are some other factors?
LS: If the ruler itself is ruled by a benefic or a malefic, that can color things. So is it ruled by Jupiter or Venus? Is the sign that the ruler is in ruled by one of those two? Or is it ruled by Mars or Saturn? Particularly by sect, so Mars being the more challenging one during the day, if it’s a day chart and Saturn at night, and then whether the ruler is like in a major aspect with any of those four planets.
CB: Yeah. So does it have positive aspects like sextiles and trines with the benefics, Venus and Jupiter, or does it have challenging aspects like squares or oppositions with the more challenging planets like Mars or Saturn that has a major impact on the condition of the ruler? Also is it retrograde or is it direct? It’s better if it’s direct. If it’s retrograde, there may be some delays or some snafus in the manifestation of the planet significations and a bunch of different stuff. So a lot of this for planetary condition, I actually, so I have a bunch of free copies of my book on the back table, and I hope everybody that doesn’t have a copy takes one cause I’m trying to get rid of those. Those are like misprinted copies that are slightly misaligned, but they’re otherwise perfectly readable. And instead of throwing them away or recycling them, I wanted to just give them away so that everybody that doesn’t have the book yet can get a copy. And there’s a chapter in my book on the conditions of bonification and maltreatment that goes through a checklist of seven conditions that you need to pay attention to determine if a planet is well-placed or is poorly placed in a chart. And I think that’s like chapter, I don’t know, 10 or 13 or something in the book.
LS: I can’t tell you.
CB: Yeah, but the book is titled Hellenistic Astrology: The Study of Fate and Fortune. And I hope everybody takes a copy from the back table if you don’t have one already. All right. Was there another question? Drew?
Drew: Say, a child comes up to you and asks what the house system is? How would you explain that to them?
CB: What the house system is or what houses are?
LS: Are you saying like what the whole sign system is or what houses…
Drew: If a child wants to understand what the houses are, what would you say to them?
LS: Just areas of life.
CB: We would say, I mean, if we’re approaching it from the house system that we’re using with whole sign houses, we would say that when you were born, the moment you were born, there was a sign of the zodiac that was rising over the eastern horizon at that moment. And that that sign, whatever it was, becomes the first sector of your life indicating certain topics that are associated with you at the moment of birth. And then there were 12 signs of the zodiac in a circle from that point, and each of them was numbered going counter-clockwise. So 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, all the way up to 12. And that each of these 12, it creates 12 sectors of your chart, of your birth chart, and 12 sectors of your life that indicate different topics and different areas of your life. And the placement of the planets in those areas of the chart indicate how those topics will go for better or worse. I don’t know if that’s like a sufficiently like explain it like I’m five.
LS: Yeah, I was going to say it depends on the age of the child.
Drew: Let’s say 10 years old.
LS: No, I mean, yeah, I think that’s more or less what you would say and vary the vocabulary, but it’s just different areas of your life.
CB: Yeah, that the 12 houses indicate sectors of the birth chart that indicate areas of a person’s life.
Drew: Thank you.
CB: Yeah. All right. Does anybody else have any other questions about annual profections or anything that we’ve talked about related to this technique? Yeah.
Unknown Speaker: [unintelligible 1.42.07].
CB: Sure. How do we deal with retrograde planets?
LS: Do you mean retrograde planets as the lord of the year or retrograde transiting planets triggering something?
Unknown Speaker: [unintelligible 1.42.20]
LS: That’s the ruler of the house. Yeah, ruler of the profected house.
Unknown Speaker: I would say in general, retrograde Venus or retrograde anything, generally, I understand how they work, but with your system, how would you integrate that into this? Even though it’s simplifying a lot it really isn’t, so you have to really think about it. And so [unintelligible 1.42.53]
CB: Sure, retrogrades are really important and profections become a useful tool for accessing what retrograde planets do, especially by transit. And there’s two major ways that that happens when you’re using profections. So one of the ways that that happens is that, when you look up in the sky, what a retrograde is is the planet slows down. It’s moving forward through the signs of the zodiac in zodiacal order through its normal movement, but then at a certain point, it will slow down and stop moving through the zodiac and stop in the middle of the sky. And it will start moving backwards against the order of the signs of the zodiac until eventually at some point later it slows down again and reverses course once more and begins moving forward again. So the two most important points in that cycle are the points where it stops and stations retrograde and then eventually the point where it stops and stations direct. So those usually occur on specific dates during the course of the year. And those two dates when the planet stops and stations retrograde and then ends its retrograde cycle, if the planet is the lord of the year is activated by annual profection that year, then those two dates will be two of the most important dates around that time that are turning points in that year. So for example, everybody has the experience where sometimes you have a Mercury retrograde that happens in the sky, and it’s just a cliche Mercury retrograde, where your car breaks and you have like a miscommunication with a friend or your wallet gets stolen and you lose some money or something like that during that three-week Mercury retrograde period. Typically, it’s the years in which Mercury is activated as the lord of the year, and then goes retrograde that the retrograde period is more important for you personally. Whereas if there’s a Mercury retrograde in the sky and Mercury is not the lord of the year for you, it may come and go without anything major happening. So basically pay attention to when you identify the lord of the year in a given year. Look in the ephemeris and see if that planet will go retrograde at some point during the year, because if it does, that’s going to be the more important part of the year that you should focus on.
LS: Yeah, and I’ve noticed that in particular with the Venus retrogrades and Mars retrogrades if Venus or Mars is the lord of the year because they don’t go retrograde all of the time. Like Mercury is quite frequent, and then the ones beyond Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, and so forth are infrequent. But Venus and Mars are kind of in between, and so they don’t go retrograde every year, much less like several times a year, so it’s sort of more notable if you’re like in a Venus profected year and then Venus goes retrograde, that period of time will really trigger. It’s kind of like a super transit. Yeah, you’re welcome.
CB: Yeah. So that’s one way that you can use profections to deal with retrogrades and figure out which retrogrades are going to be important and which are not. All right, any more questions as we’re getting towards the end of this and getting ready to wrap things up? No? Okay. Does anybody have one last chart example to share before we’re done for the day? No. All right. It looks like that’s it then. So, yeah. Okay. So let’s see, annual profection, so this is just a quick introduction, obviously. Like I said, my book, it actually has a chapter, one of the last chapters of the book is on annual profections if you want to learn more about this technique. I also have a nine-hour lecture on annual profections where I use over a hundred example charts to really get into the details of how to use the technique, and that’s in my course on Hellenistic astrology, which is available at theastrologyschool.com. You have a lecture on repetitions in annual profections, right?
LS: Yeah, I do. So the 12-year repetition and just like lots of examples of how that works out in specific people’s charts.
CB: Okay. And that’s on your website, leisaschaim.com. And I think that’s it. Otherwise, are there any other resources for studying annual profections?
LS: I do consultations and talk about profections quite a lot with people.
CB: Cool, yeah. And if anybody has any other… I may release this at some point as a podcast episode, and if anybody has any other examples, please feel free to write to us. And maybe we could do some sort of study group or another work session in order to get further into the technique and share some more example charts. Cool.
LS: Thank you so much for all the people that volunteered your examples. Those were really great.
CB: Yeah, those are some great examples. And I feel like we really learned some stuff, not just with like the positive events, but also sometimes with the challenging events. Because while we can learn techniques like this abstractly, like I said, it’s not until you actually hear somebody’s lived experience or until, especially you go through certain profection years and you have that sort of visceral experience of what it’s like to have a certain house activated, that’s where some of the real learning and sort of the wisdom but also the empathy. I think one of the things about studying techniques like this is it can help you to develop a level of empathy and understand where people are coming from in terms of different parts of their life and how to relate to that perhaps in a different way that you might not otherwise. And then finally, again, it’s just a demonstration of some of the cool things that you can do with astrology and how astrology can be useful as a tool for prediction and timing and that while it’s good and useful for psychology and counseling and psychological analysis, you can also use it in order to anticipate events coming up in the future. And that sometimes itself can then tie back into the counseling and the psychology. Because then if you can anticipate ideas and events coming up in the future, it can help you to better help and talk to a person who’s seeking advice and counsel. All right. Well, I think that’s it for this meeting of the Denver Astrology Group. So thanks everybody for coming, and hopefully we’ll see you again next month for our meeting in October with Leah Samuels on the Black Moon Lilith.
LS: Thank you.
CB: All right, that was a great meeting. So yeah, that’s the end of the meeting.
LS: We’re back here now.
CB: Yeah. So that was a lively meeting, and there was a lot going on actually in the environment that kind of initially threw some things off where there’s a lot of like loud noises.
LS: Yeah. There was like a street band like a festival going on outside, which we knew when we arrived. And then there was like a protest that like the entire group came in like five minutes before we started on the other side of the building. So there was a lot going on. It’s very lively when you deal with live meetings.
CB: Yeah. But I think most of that’s probably going to be edited out and will probably sound a lot better than it did at the time live, hopefully, due to the heroic efforts of our audio and video editor, Steven, so shout out to Steven for salvaging this episode for us. Thank you. And let’s see, what else? So there are a lot of great examples that we went through. I think it really worked out well in terms of you never know what you’re going to get. And that’s one of the things I like to plan things ahead of time. And that’s one of the things that makes me nervous about these types of meetings is there could be a lot of great examples or there could be just like nobody volunteers at all. It’s a really wild card, but it worked out really well this time. And I think it showed a lot of the different facets of the technique that we were able to touch on when relevant and different examples. And a lot of those things would be things that I normally would teach in different parts of like my nine-hour profections lecture, but we just happened to get a nice array of most of them just randomly through the examples that came through.
LS: Yeah, I was really impressed by the examples that came in and how spot on they were and how we were able to kind of like unpack them in more detail and so forth.
CB: Yeah, so obviously we pulled in a lot of different concepts. Like we jumped right into like the rulers of the houses and what happens when the ruler of one house is in the profected sign or when the profected ruler when it rules two houses and how that brings in the topics of those houses and a bunch of different stuff. So most of that stuff, some of it’s going to be in the previous episode on annual profections that was like a little lecture on that topic that I think was two hours long. There’s more that’s in my book. One of the last chapters of the book was on annual profections. And then finally, most of my actual teachings on all of this where I teach all of those details are in my full course on Hellenistic astrology that’s available at theastrologyschool.com. So if there’s a lot of stuff that went by too quickly or you felt like you wished that we had dealt with it in more detail like sect or rulerships, or the bonification and maltreatment conditions, then that’s basically where to find more information about that. All right, one of the things that was interesting is there was one person at least at the end of the meeting that said that they had some good examples of profections as they were sitting there listening to the other examples, but they didn’t necessarily feel like sharing it publicly with like the entire world, which is really understandable. And that’s an important point here in terms of the people that did feel comfortable sharing their charts publicly versus there probably were… It probably wasn’t just that one person, it was probably more people than that that had good examples, but sometimes it can be referring to really private or sensitive or just parts of our life that we don’t necessarily want to like put out there. And that’s something obviously that also comes up in consultations from time to time as well.
LS: Yeah, definitely. People aren’t always ready to just jump right into their personal life if you don’t really know them personally. And so that is one thing to keep in mind when we’re talking about these kinds of illustrations is it is impressive how many good examples there were given that even like some challenging things. But yeah, not everyone is going to be willing to do that for like a worldwide audience.
CB: Yeah, definitely. Which actually brings up like a flashback of a difficult memory for me of, I once participated in a panel at like an astrology conference, where there was like four or five astrologers and we all agreed to read one person’s chart without knowing anything about them. And then they were supposed to tell us afterwards like which of us did the best job or got closest to the right in terms of the detail of the information. And at the end, the person got up and they were like, “Yeah, that was pretty good.” And that was it, and they wouldn’t confirm like anything about their life, but later it turned out that a number of the things that some of us had said were spot on, but it was just hitting on a part of the person’s life that was very difficult, and they didn’t when they got up there at the end in front of the entire conference feel comfortable sharing when put on the spot. So it kind of was like a major flaw in that whole idea of like, let’s read some of these charts, which turned out to be kind of a dumb idea in that instance. But you never know cause it really varies depending on the chart and depending on the circumstances of the person’s life.
LS: Yeah. Some people are like an open book, they don’t care who knows anything. And some people are very much the opposite. So you got to choose for public audience.
CB: Yeah. And that’s also sometimes difficult even in consultations as I’ve talked about before. I think Dennis Harness and I in an episode last year on different client styles and different consultation styles talked about sometimes you’ll have a client that’s very open and very forthcoming in talking about the details of the life, but other times they might be more closed off and like not comfortable, even if you’re saying something that’s correct necessarily telling you or affirming that or going into detail about that. And that can be one of the tricky parts, even just reading somebody’s chart in general.
LS: Yeah, definitely. I was thinking recently that it’s good for all practicing astrologers to be on the other side of the table once in a while, even if it’s for like a different modality not astrology. But just to remind yourself like what it feels like to be a client and what kind of space that puts you in.
CB: Right. Yeah, definitely. And also to get consultations or readings with different astrologers. And that’s actually probably one of the reasons I wanted to release this episode, because it kind of demonstrates a little bit of our unique, somewhat unique approach to astrology, which is this blend of traditional Hellenistic or ancient Greco-Roman astrological techniques and some modern techniques as well and the way that we approach doing consultations. And that approach is, even though that’s natural and just normal to us because that’s our approach, it is probably different compared to some other approaches. So it gives you some insight into how we actually read charts. But that’s something you can get partially by going to different astrologers and getting chart readings. And that’s a good process, both as a student or as a practitioner, just to get that experience of how different astrologers read charts. So obviously this isn’t like comprehensive in terms of that, it gives you a sample of some of the techniques we pay attention to and some of the things that we would start to take into account in the process of a consultation. All right, let’s see. Additionally, there’s an addendum actually to the first chart example, which is really funny because everything went relatively smoothly in terms of all the examples we got and the nice distribution and everything. But one major oversight that I know we noticed immediately, and I’m sure the audience probably noticed is just that in the very first chart example, the main thing we had introduced, almost the only thing we had introduced at that point was when the profection comes to a house, oftentimes the topics associated with that house will become more prominent that year. And the very first chart example from Joseph, local astrologer Joseph, was that he was currently like six months into a seventh house profection year, and the seventh house is usually associated with relationships. But then the things that he was associating it with, he immediately jumped to other things that were connected with that. Like the fact that the ruler of the seventh house was in the eighth house, and it was also like the ruler of the second house and how that was bringing into play a bunch of financial issues that he was running into in his life at that time, as well as recently getting in a car accident with a natal Mercury-Mars square being activated based on Mars being activated that time.
LS: Exactly. And so he already knew profections, and so he was just kind of jumping to like more advanced pieces of it.
CB: So, but then we didn’t slow down, and normally we would have stopped and asked at one point cause we meant to move on cause we felt like we were spending a lot of time on it and needed to jump to other examples, but meant to ask him like, well, is there anything going on in terms of the seventh house and in terms of relationships in your life? And after the meeting, we talked to him for a few minutes and he came up and said hi. And he was there with a guy that we didn’t recognize that he’d never been to the meeting with before. And so I texted him later a few days later and I said, “Hey, is there anything going on? Was that your partner? Are you in a new relationship suddenly?” Cause I knew he hadn’t been for a little while. And he said yeah, that there was something going on and that there seemed to be a new relationship that had formed just in the past few weeks. And if it turned into a major relationship, then it would be the first major relationship that he’s had in five years. And so that would be starting during the seventh house profection year.
LS: Right. Yeah. And that’s definitely something that I noticed, and I like had an instinct to stop for a moment and be like, “What about relationships?” But you never know, because if someone’s not volunteering that information and it’s in a public venue, you don’t want to like hit on like a sore spot or something like in front of everyone. And so and I didn’t know if he wasn’t talking about it cause he was with that guy right there.
CB: Well, it also would have been like an awkward thing to say to them like focus on if it’s still relatively early in the relationship.
LS: Is that you right there? Yeah, exactly. You kind of have to judge these in the moment when you’re doing it in a public venue.
CB: Yeah. That brings up two related points. Which is one, sometimes especially, and this is hard, especially cause that was the other thing about his example is that it wasn’t a past example, it was like his current profection year that he only started earlier this year in like February or March or something. So it was only halfway through it. And that’s one of the issues, not just with this technique but other timing techniques like zodiac releasing, which is like if the person is right in the middle of it or has just started it, the event may not have happened yet or it may still be in the process of developing to the point where they might not recognize that it’s happened or it’s in the process of happening yet. And that’s something I really frequently run into even myself is like seeing an astrological timing thing coming up, having it hit exactly in the time period, and then having some like super, what I think of at the time is a super minor not significant event happen that like correlates with it in terms of the quality or the meaning. And I’m like, “Yeah, okay, that’s accurate I guess, but that doesn’t seem like a big deal. So that’s kind of a bummer or kind of unimpressive.” But then with the passage of time, eventually realizing that that what seemed like a minor thing at the time got more and more important and turned out to be much more significant in retrospect than I realized in the moment when it first started.
LS: Yeah, definitely. There’s like two things there, there’s like identifying what’s actually happened or even has it happened yet. And then recognizing or having enough big picture perspective to see its importance. And you can’t always when you’re right in the middle of something.
CB: Right, I mean, cause that’s happened… I don’t know, that’s happened a ton of times. That’s happened with like injuries like I’ve had. I had a year where I think it was like the Sun was activated as the lord of the year and like Mars transited through my first house and squared the Sun. And I like went to a new gym and like used a machine I hadn’t used before and like pulled something in my shoulder. And like in the next day or two, I was sort of like, “Okay, well I got off kind of easy if that was the case.” But then over the course of the next week, it turned into like a major injury that got worse and worse to the point where I had to like stop going to the gym for months and was in like recovery for like a long time from what turned out to be a major injury that at the time, even within a day or two of it happening, I didn’t recognize as being like super significant.
LS: Exactly, yeah. I remember all of that.
CB: Yeah. Have you had anything like that that you remember off hand?
LS: I can’t think of any of my own right at this moment, but I know I’ve had some recent ones with consultations where people have just finished loosing of the bond, and they can report what happened, but I’m sometimes the one zeroing in on like that’s probably actually more important than you think it is so far. And then they’ll tell me like a year later, like it was actually in fact a very major turning point.
CB: Yeah, definitely. Sometimes, I mean, one of the lessons of that, and it’s something that Robert Zoller used to tell me, cause he used to say it in a really over the top manner. He could say the astrology is always right. He would say it differently than that. I’m not getting it right at the moment. But his basic point was that the astrology is always right. And sometimes even if you don’t think it’s right or you don’t recognize how it’s right, sometimes it’s right nonetheless and you will only realize that later in retrospect. And there’s some deeper sort of issue or like wisdom there that is probably important to recognize on some level.
LS: Sure. Yeah. And you can’t be a jerk about it in terms of saying the person can’t self-report correctly, but still, if you’re another person outside of them, you can help kind of like zero in on like what they might be not thinking as fully important as it actually is or asking questions about blind spots.
CB: Yeah, figuring out that balance between like the astrology being right and that sort of perspective versus like testing the astrology and trying to figure out what’s accurate and what’s not and whether a technique is working or whether it needs refinement or whether it’s just not a technique that you think works at all. There’s some sort of balance there, but that repeated lesson of just sometimes seeing something come and go and not thinking it was that significant but then in retrospect, it turning out to be major just like the astrology seemed to be indicating is sort of an important reoccurring lesson that I’m still getting used to.
LS: Definitely, I agree.
CB: Yeah. All right, so any other thoughts on annual profections or the chart examples or the Denver Astrology Group as we wrap up this episode?
LS: We didn’t even get into like really advanced profections, and there’s of course other things you can do with it if you do listen to the other full lecture, you’ll get some of that, right? Was that in there?
CB: Yeah, we didn’t talk about profecting from the sect light, we didn’t profect from any of the houses or topical matters or planets. There’s actually a ton of other advanced sort of things in profections that we left out and didn’t get into cause it would have been too much. Cause we knew that at least like half the audience, probably this was their first introduction to profection. So we weren’t trying to go too crazy.
LS: Yeah. If anyone’s watching or listening and you do know profections, you might see things that we could have like further developed by using those advanced techniques, but that’s kind of why we didn’t go further.
CB: Yeah. Or even by casting the chart and looking at the transits at the times of the events, that was a major piece that we sort of more or less left out as well.
LS: Yeah. It’s a lot to do in what, an hour and 45 or so.
CB: Yeah, definitely. All right. Well, I guess that’s it then for this episode of The Astrology Podcast. So thanks for leading that episode with me, that discussion. Thanks to everybody at the Denver Astrology Group for attending. Thanks to Marilyn Megenity from the… Am I spelling your name…
LS: I’m not sure. We just say Marilyn.
CB: We always just say Marilyn.
LS: Marilyn from The Mercury Cafe.
CB: Thanks to Marilyn from The Mercury Cafe for hosting our group for over 11 years now, starting in May of 2008, under an awesome electional chart that I picked out. That’s been amazing thanks to Marilyn at The Mercury Cafe, everyone with the Denver Astrology Group. And thanks also to all of our supporters who support the podcast through Patreon. It’s only through your support that I’ve been able to get some of the like cameras and the audio equipment and microphones that have been necessary in order to record these episodes or in order to record them in as high of quality as I’m able to. And I keep trying to push the limits and sort of improve on that each time. Also that helps us to be able to pay Steven in order to edit the audio and the video each time in order to clean up the audio and make it better than just the raw recording. So yeah, thanks to everybody on patreon.com who supports The Astrology Podcast and in turn gets access to benefits like early access to new episodes, private podcast episodes, higher quality recordings and other bonus stuff like that. You can find out more information if you go to patreon.com and search for The Astrology Podcast, about some of the different things we offer there. Finally, thanks to… There’s a few supporters that we have to give a specific shout out to who are on our new producers tier. Thanks to patrons Christine Stone and Nate Craddock for signing up for the producers tier. And also thanks to the Astrology Gold Astrology App or Astro Gold Astrology App, which is available at astrogold.io. I know that’s the app that both Leisa and I use on our phones to look up charts really quickly. And thanks also to the Portland School of Astrology, which teaches astrology both online and in-person in the Pacific Northwest. So you can find out more information about them at portlandastrology.org. All right, that’s it for this episode. Thanks everyone for watching or listening, and we’ll see you next time.
LS: See you next time.