The Astrology Podcast
Transcript of Episode 215, titled:
With Chris Brennan and Leisa Schaim
Episode originally released on July 20, 2019
Note: This is a transcript of a spoken word podcast. If possible, we encourage you to listen to the audio or video version, since they include inflections that may not translate well when written out. Our transcripts are created by human transcribers, and the text may contain errors and differences from the spoken audio. If you find any errors then please send them to us by email: firstname.lastname@example.org
Transcribed by Mary Sharon
Transcription released December 7th, 2019
Copyright © 2019 TheAstrologyPodcast.com
CHRIS BRENNAN: Hi my name is Chris Brennan, and you’re listening to The Astrology Podcast. In this episode we’re gonna be talking about the astrology of eclipses and specifically how to determine what an eclipse will be for you based on where it falls in your chart in terms of especially the 12 houses which represent topics or areas of a person’s life. Joining me today is eclipse specialist extraordinaire, Leisa Schaim. Hi, Leisa.
LEISA SCHAIM: Hi Chris.
CB: Do you like that title that I made up just now?
LS: Yeah, yeah. Thanks for adding that.
CB: Okay, I thought it was fitting. This is an episode of The Astrology Podcast, and we’re recording an introduction to it right now tonight. But what the majority of this episode is actually gonna be is a recording from a local astrology group that we hosted here in Denver earlier today on what is it, July 13th 2019. The meeting started just after 3:00 p.m. and we’re recording this later at night at what, 9:00, 10:00?
LS: 10ish. Yeah.
CB: 11 something.
LS: Yeah, something.
CB: Sagittarius rising, for those who wanna know.
CB: Pisces rising with Jupiter in Sagittarius. Yeah, what this episode is gonna be is a recording of a meeting of the Denver Astrology Group that was about two hours long where we had an audience of about 25 or 30 astrologers. We went through and explained and talked about and presented some ways of how to conceptualize and how to interpret eclipses based on where they fall in your chart. And we took examples from the audience where once we had explained the principles, we started asking people to apply it to their chart and tell us about either how the current eclipse series is affecting their life and how that seems to be manifesting or how previous eclipses have worked in their life. And we got a lot of really good examples I think, right?
LS: Yeah. I think they’re really good examples for most of the houses, so hopefully you watch and agree. Yeah, there’s some great stories in there.
CB: Definitely. And then we’ll do a little wrap up or conclusion at the very end that we’ll record here in just a minute as well. So this was hosted as a meeting of the Denver Astrology Group. If you ever want to attend a meeting, if you’re coming through Denver, or you live in Colorado, just do a Google search for Denver Astrology Group. And you’ll find our page on Meetup. We always meet on the second Saturday of each month. If you wanna support the podcast by becoming a patron, you can sign up through my page on Patreon. And you get early access to new episodes, bonus content. We do an episode on electional astrology each month and other things like that. So you can find out more information about that at theastrologypodcast.com/subscribe. So with that introduction out of the way, let’s get into the episode.
CB: All right, let’s go ahead and get started. Thanks everybody for coming to the July meeting of the Denver Astrology Group. What is the date today? It’s the 13th?
LS: Today is July 13th.
CB: So it’s Saturday, July 13th 2019 starting at 3:06 p.m. in Denver, Colorado. So if this is your first time attending the group… How many people is this your first meeting just out of curiosity? Okay, cool. We always meet here on the second Saturday of each month always from 3:00 to 5:00 p.m. here at The Mercury Cafe. Sometimes we schedule our meetings kind of late because we like to catch speakers who are coming through from out of town and sort of remain flexible to just do things that come up on the fly sometimes. And that sometimes works out really well in the past, and other times we end up scheduling meetings really late like this month. But you can always be sure that we’ll be here on the second Saturday pretty much no matter what. The only exception for the time is that next month we’re actually gonna be meeting at noon instead of at 3:00 p.m. just because there’s a wedding in here later in the day. So today we’re gonna be talking about eclipses, and we’re gonna be talking about how to use eclipses and apply them to your birth chart in order to understand what they mean for your life. And this is kind of topical both because, obviously, we’re in eclipse season now and this month we have our first set of eclipses in Capricorn and Cancer. But, also, we’re hoping that it’s something that will be more generally applicable to you as a technique throughout your life and your career as astrologers or astrology enthusiasts. Before we jump into it, do we have any news and announcements?
LS: Not that I can think of other than that.
CB: Okay. There is gonna be a big astrology conference happening here next year which is the ISAR conference, where the International Society for Astrological Research which is one of the largest astrological organizations in the world has actually picked Denver to host their next big international conference. And they’re expecting seven to 800 astrologers to fly in from around the world for a week of astrology lectures and workshops and panels and other presentations. So that’s happening next September in September of 2020 up in Westminster. And what hotel is that at?
LS: I think it might have been The Westin. I don’t know if I’m remembering that right.
Unknown speaker: The Marriott.
CB & LS: The Marriott? Okay.
LS: One of those.
CB: Well, whatever. It is a super nice hotel that they renovated recently, and it should be pretty cool. They may have some volunteer positions for local astrologers where we may be looking for local astrologers to help out in exchange for getting into the conference for free or something like that. So as soon as we have more information about that, we’ll put out an announcement. And then if anybody wants to volunteer to help at the conference, they can. Anything else?
LS: No, I think that’s it.
CB: Okay. Oh yeah, we’re looking for speakers. We’re always looking for speakers. If you’re an astrologer or an astrology enthusiast and if you’d like to give a short presentation at some point at one of the meetings, one of the things we do sometimes to get people experience giving talks is do a bunch of short 20 or 30-minute presentations rather than a long hour, hour and a half-long presentation. So if you have any interest in giving a talk at some point, then just email me or Leisa through the Meetup page. And we’ll try to set something up for you at some point in the future. All right. So let’s go ahead and get started with our topic today which is the topic of eclipses. And so the main theme that we’re gonna focus on and one of the recurring keywords for eclipses is the idea of them representing great beginnings and great endings. And this is tied in with the modern conceptualization of eclipses because part of what an eclipse is, of course, is it’s just a New Moon or a Full Moon. When you start looking at eclipses and thinking about what they mean astrologically, that’s your starting point is realizing that eclipse is a New Moon or a Full Moon. But it’s a special one that only happens approximately every six months, so that every six months we’ll have a solar eclipse and a lunar eclipse occur roughly in the same month, right?
LS: Yeah, yeah. It’ll be usually in pairs of two of opposing signs. Every now and then, it’ll be three in a row because of the motion backwards of the nodes. But basically, as Chris said, they’re kind of supercharged New Moons or Full Moons that happen near the transiting nodes.
CB: Right. Because New Moons and Full Moons, of course, happen every month. But the issue is that the New Moon and the Full Moon when the Sun and the Moon conjoin at the same degree in the zodiac, even though they’re passing across the same degree of the zodiac at the same time at a conjunction which is a New Moon, they don’t always pass directly in front of each other both by longitude and latitude. And it’s only when the Moon passes in front of the face of the Sun that it actually moves in front of the Sun and eclipses or blocks it from view. And that’s why eclipses are unique, and that’s why they only happen in six-month intervals. Because what’s happening the rest of the time is just the Sun and Moon are making zodiacal conjunctions but not conjunctions by latitude. And that’s actually what the nodes represent. Most people don’t realize this, that the north and south node represent the point on the ecliptic where the Sun and Moon intersect perfectly. And that’s the reason why in order to spot eclipses when you’re looking at an ephemeris or you’re looking at a chart, you just have to find a New Moon or a Full Moon that falls within about 15 degrees or 20 degrees of the nodes. And if you see a conjunction of the Sun and Moon happening close to the nodes, you know that an eclipse is gonna take place near to that time.
LS: Yeah. And there’s some question about exactly how many degrees away it has to be in order to count, within what range as an eclipse.
CB: Yeah. Sometimes you’ll have a partial eclipse where just part of the Moon blocks part of the Sun, and other times you’ll have a total solar eclipse which is when the Moon entirely blocks from our visual standpoint the vision of the Sun. And then you get a full total solar eclipse.
LS: And for astrological purposes, obviously, astronomically we don’t always see all of the eclipses depending on where we are on the globe. So for instance, I think this recent one was visible from South America, right?
CB: Yeah, this is a total solar eclipse that was visible from South America.
LS: So, astronomically, you’re not gonna see each one. But, astrologically, it still matters. Each eclipse is still effective whether you can visibly see it or not from where you are.
CB: Right. What we’re gonna do today is we’re gonna talk about eclipses and talk about how to interpret them in your chart, and we’re hoping that people can start thinking about and applying this to your own chart and thinking back to your past chronology about previous eclipses. Once we introduce the basic framework of how to interpret them and what they do or what you should be looking for, we’re hoping that this is gonna spark some ideas for each of you and some realizations in terms of your past chronology. So one of the things that we gave you as a handout is a two-page sheet which lists all of the eclipses that have occurred in the past, what is like, 50 years or so.
LS: Yeah, or more.
CB: This is from a book. This is just a photocopy from a book by an astrologer named Neil Michelsen, and the title of the book is–What is it again?
LS: Well, is it the handbook of planetary–I don’t know if I’m remembering that right.
Unknown speaker: Phenomena. Tables of Planetary Phenomena.
LS: Tables of Planetary Phenomena. Thank you.
CB: Tables of Planetary Phenomenon, and it’s produced by ACS Publications which is the same company that publishes The American Ephemeris that most astrologers use just to look at planetary placements. So I definitely recommend getting that book because it has a lot of handy tables like this one which at a glance tell you where all of the eclipses have taken place and specifically what zodiacal signs they’ve fallen in as well as what zodiacal degree they’ve fallen in and over the course of most of the past century. We’re gonna be focusing on the eclipses and not focusing so much in terms of where they fall by degree, but instead we’re gonna encourage you to focus on what sign of the zodiac the eclipse is falling in and seeing especially which of the 12 houses in your birth chart the eclipse falls in as activating some of the topics associated with that area of your life.
LS: And they happen twice a year in pairs, like we mentioned. And that will be a series of about three to four in the same signs and therefore activating the same opposing houses in your chart. So that’s kind of the timeframe. There are specific days where the eclipse actually happens. But in terms of when that eclipse cycle is kind of operative in those topics of your life, it’s that range. So about three to four six-month periods.
CB: Yeah. So in order to anchor this in the present time, the most recent eclipse that occurred this month fell at about 10 degrees of Cancer in the zodiacal sign of Cancer around July 2nd. And this is a solar eclipse, so it’s like a New Moon cause it’s a conjunction of the Sun and Moon. But it’s a special New Moon that’s only occurring in six-month increments. And because it occurs in six-month increments, it has an effect that’s gonna last for at least the next six months. So one of the things that I think trips astrologers up when they first start studying eclipses and trying to apply them to their charts is sometimes they see an eclipse coming and they expect there to be an immediate event that happens at the time of the eclipse. But oftentimes that’s not the case because that’s not necessarily how eclipses work. But people sometimes get disappointed and sort of discard eclipses and say maybe they’re not that big of a deal. But what you need to do is to pay attention to what house the eclipse falls in and then pay attention to whether some of the topics associated with that house start to have major changes in terms of major beginnings or major endings over the course of the next six months from that eclipse series, the first eclipse until the next eclipse takes place in that same sign.
LS: Yeah, and oftentimes things can also be seated at that time. Similarly, if you’re looking for something to happen immediately, that’s externally obvious that won’t always happen. And part of it is that timeframe that you’re looking at versus right on that day. But the other part is sometimes, especially with the New Moon ones it will see the beginning, but you won’t see the sort of further development of it quite yet immediately.
CB: Right. And that’s especially true for solar eclipses. Since a solar eclipse is a New Moon, it represents some sort of new beginning or new foundation. Because at a New Moon, the Sun and Moon conjoin, and then the Moon starts off sort of dark and then starts to increase in light and get brighter and brighter over the course of the next two weeks until eventually you hit the Full Moon. And the Full Moon is usually conceptualized in Western astrology as some sort of culmination of events that were usually initiated at the New Moon.
LS: Yeah. And I always tell people that it can also precipitate things happening more quickly than they were expecting in addition to those major significations of beginnings and endings. Sometimes it’ll spark something unexpected in a little bit of overlap way with, say, a sort of flavor of a Uranus transit. Not exactly the same, but sometimes that kind of feeling can overlap.
CB: Sure. So we have the solar eclipse in Cancer on July 2nd. And then about two weeks later after that we’ll have a lunar eclipse that’s gonna take place in Capricorn around July 16th.
LS: At 24 Capricorn.
CB: Right, at 24 Capricorn. That’s the present set of eclipses that we’re going to, and those are the ones that we wanna focus on right now in terms of what sort of changes might we anticipate that these eclipses are gonna bring or going to indicate for each of our lives. And so for some of us this particular set of eclipses is gonna be more important, and for others it’s gonna be less important. So it’s not a given that the eclipses are always gonna be super important for every person. But part of the difference is where it’s falling in your chart and if it’s hitting a prominent part of your chart or if it’s not necessarily hitting a prominent part of your chart in terms of determining whether it’s gonna be crucial for you over the course of the next six months.
LS: And when it tends to be crucial, it’s usually when it lands in the angular houses in your birth chart. So that’s first, fourth, seventh, and 10th houses. Because those are kind of the major structural underpinnings of our lives. The first house being identity and who we are personally, fourth house being home where we live, our family, the seventh being partnership, and then the 10th being career.
CB: Right. Is there anybody, for example, that has Cancer rising or Capricorn rising so that the eclipses are falling in your first or seventh houses? Anybody? 1 2 3 4. Okay, so those are definitely important. One good example of that I remember from years ago was Barack Obama has Aquarius rising, and we had a set of eclipses that occurred in Aquarius around the time of the 2008 presidential election which was one of the things that indicated him being elected at that time and moving into the presidency. Then what was interesting is that four years later in 2012, there was another set of eclipses that shifted to Scorpio and Taurus which was his 10th house or his 10th whole sign house. And then he was reelected. We then had something kind of similar with Trump where in early 2017 there was a eclipse series that started in Leo, and Leo is his rising sign. So we had sort of a similar repetition of the last two presidents having eclipses occurring around their first house around the time of becoming president.
LS: And that can happen because the first house is so vital to who you are. It’s kind of the most important house in the chart when it comes to who you are. And it’s sometimes can indicate when there’s an eclipse they’re putting a spotlight on you or getting sort of attention or recognition more than usual. And that’s kind of why those manifested that way for them.
CB: One of the things that everybody needs to keep in mind as well is that eclipses they don’t just focus on one house, but it’s always tying together the polarity of the house that it’s falling in and the house that is opposite to it. And that’s because eclipses bounce back and forth over the course of about a year and a half or almost two-year period between those two signs, so that what happens is that when the north and south node move into a new set of signs, you know that there’s gonna be eclipses in those signs for approximately the next year and a half or two years. For example, in this eclipse series in July of this year, earlier this month we had a solar eclipse in Cancer. And then we’re having a lunar eclipse in Capricorn. Then six months from now we’ll have a lunar eclipse in Cancer and a solar eclipse in Capricorn. It just keeps jumping back and forth on that axis between Cancer and Capricorn for about almost two years. So when you think about that in your own chart, you need to think about what two houses it’s falling in and what the relationship is between those two houses and how the topics associated with those houses are working in your life at that time in realizing that there’s often an interplay between those two houses.
LS: And frequently in this series, so right now for instance, we’re solidly in Cancer and Capricorn eclipses happening in the same month and the same thing with the next couple in six months and then in 12 months. But frequently as they move into the new signs, there’s a little bit of wobble as far as them not having two exactly opposing signs. So they kind of come on gradually. So for instance in this series, there was one that people were debating whether or not it was considered a full eclipse in Cancer last July, July of 2018. And then there was the first Capricorn one in January of 2019.
CB: Yeah, so there may have been some–Do you have a question?
Unknown speaker: I’m Capricorn rising.
Unknown speaker: So these next eclipses [unintelligible 00:20:02.15] of two years.
CB: Yeah, roughly two years. Just because it’s gonna be jumping back and forth between Cancer and Capricorn starting over the course of the past year. Since the nodes moved into that sign, they’re gonna take about a year and a half or almost two years to move through that sign.
LS: And one of the things you can do with this as well since it happens over about a 19-year cycle, the eclipses happening in the same places in the sky. So for instance, the pair of eclipses happening this month, they’re actually at the exact same degrees as July 2000. And so if you happen to be old enough to remember what you were doing in July 2000, they’re actually in the exact same place and similarly about halfway through that cycle. So about nine-ish years in there’ll be the eclipses in the same signs but in the opposing. It’ll be the opposition.
CB: Does anyone have any more questions? I feel like there might be more questions at this stage, and maybe it’s good to get some of them out of the way at the start before we start going into examples. No? Okay.
LS: I think one thing that you wanted to mention as well is there’s a lot of really active astrology going on in the sky right now. And so while we’ll be focusing on the eclipses today, whatever major things might be happening in your life right now may be pinned to the eclipses but may also alternately have to do with some of the other things happening. In particular Capricorn, wherever Capricorn is placed in your chart, is a real hot spot right now and for the next while simply because Saturn and Pluto are transiting there and they’re going to have the exact conjunction in January. That’s also where the eclipses are happening. And so, interestingly, I’m sure that people are feeling that already in whatever house that they have especially if it’s in one of your angular houses. But you can particularly look to, say, the next set of eclipses cause they’ll actually happen around the same time as that Saturn-Pluto conjunction. So there’s more things happening in other words than just the eclipses even though we’ll be focusing on that today.
CB: Yeah. When we talked about taking example charts in the audience to focus on how the eclipses are manifesting in people’s lives right now, it was one of the things that we suddenly became reticent about cause we realized there’s so much astrology going on right now. There’s so many changes happening in the sky and in people’s lives that sometimes it’s hard because it’s not in all likelihood just gonna be tied into the eclipses and what’s going on with that at the present time. But for example with Uranus having changed signs for the first time in a decade and moving into Taurus earlier this year that’s coincided with a lot of major changes and shifts in people’s lives more recently or in a longer term over this three-year period. Like you said, we have Saturn going through Capricorn. But also right now recently we had Mercury stationing retrograde in Leo conjunct Mars. And that in the short term, at least for some people, has thrown certain things into disarray. So we’re gonna go through some example charts today, but hopefully we’re gonna have to try to sort through and be cognizant of that there’s kind of a lot going on in the sky and the eclipses are just one more thing that’s being piled on top of that for a lot of people at this time.
LS: You had a question.
Unknown speaker: And the difference between this eclipse and the one that happened 19 years ago right now there’s a lot with the Saturn and Pluto thing. 19 years ago Mars, Moon, and Sun were all 10 degrees. So it came in a little bit different [placing].
Unknown speaker: There was a lot of athletes that were really trying to [unintelligibe 00:23:50.01]
LS: Those were in Cancer?
Unknown speaker: Yeah, 10 degrees.
CB: Okay. Yeah, so that’s one of the things that’s also different about each eclipse. There’s gonna be different planets in the same sign surrounding the eclipse at different times, and that’s something ideally you could take into account or should take into account to some extent. But for our purposes, let’s focus on the eclipses as like the primary thing as much as we can and focus on the idea of the eclipses drawing out the polarities of the two houses that they’re falling in in your birth chart. So one of the things we could do maybe is just go through the houses and talk about those polarities that might come up and see if anybody has any good examples from the audience of eclipses having fallen in those houses in your chart and those topics coming up in your life at that time in the past. So as we’re going through these houses, look back at the handout and just see when in the past the eclipses would have fallen in those houses in your chart. And for our purposes, Leisa and I are gonna be using whole sign houses. And that’s sort of the approach that we would recommend in terms of paying attention to what houses the eclipses are falling in in your chart. It’s fine if you use a different form of house division and you wanna apply it in that way. But as a starting point, you might find it useful for timing to focus on the whole sign house. How many people are already familiar with whole sign houses? Okay. So for those that aren’t, all you have to do is find out what sign the Ascendant is located in in your chart. And whatever sign that is, the entire sign becomes the first house. Then the next sign after that becomes the second house, and the sign after that becomes the third house and so on and so forth. So it’s a really simple approach to house division, but I think you’ll find it effective when studying eclipses. Because as the eclipses are moving through a specific sign for two years or so, you’ll often see the topics associated with that house come into play for the entirety of that period. All right, so let’s talk about the first set of house polarities which is the first house and the seventh house. And the basic keywords or the basic polarity there is in our lives in our personal lives, the difference in the interactions between our conceptualizations of ourself versus other people in our life that we’re involved in in a close, interpersonal relationship.
LS: The first house, as I was mentioning earlier, is the most personal house to us in the chart. And so it’s the one that most represents who we are as a person. So sometimes with eclipses, as mentioned earlier, there can be more of a spotlight on you for whatever reasons. So you can get more recognition or attention at that time. You could make a change in the first house areas which can also have to do with appearance or your body or just kind of how you present yourself which can be an identity change of various sorts, and then the seventh house is partnership. So it is self and other. Primarily, personal or business partnership goes there, so marriage goes there long-term relationship. If you do any client work, a lot of one-on-one interactions, those also tend to go there.
CB: So think of the first house in seventh house. And the keywords for eclipses, if they’re falling in your first and seventh house, is great beginnings and great endings with respect to yourself and with respect to your relationships. So sometimes this can represent, for example if eclipses are falling in your seventh house, the start of a major new relationship or sometimes it can represent the ending or the culmination of a relationship that already exists.
LS: Yeah, I think that’s one of the more reliable eclipse paths in the chart first and seventh because they’re so prominent. And so oftentimes when I do see clients for instance who have eclipses either already happening or coming up in their first and seventh especially if they’re not in a relationship yet, I always feel like it’s a good plus sign in terms of the potential for meeting someone because it does so often happen.
CB: Right. And we had a funny anecdote about that with whole sign houses from 2008 when eclipses were falling in my seventh house. Do you wanna show it?
LS: No, you can go.
CB: Okay. Well, we met in the summer of 2008 when I founded this group. And we started seeing each other, and an eclipse fell right in my seventh house of relationships using whole sign houses at that time. And I think you were still a little skeptical about whole sign houses because in Placidus it fell in my sixth house. And so what did I say?
LS: I was just being kind of skeptical about which house it really was, just astrologically. And you were like, “Well, if you want the eclipse to be happening in my sixth instead of my seventh.” But, yeah, it turns out it seemed like it was more seventh in the long run.
CB: Yeah. So not to proselytize whole sign houses too much, but I think I won that argument 10 years later.
LS: Yeah, I think so.
CB: Yeah. So just think about in terms of the science cause even though it sounds really basic and it sounds overly simplistic, sometimes just an eclipse falling in the seventh sign relative to your rising sign means that seventh house topics might become more prominent in your life at that time for some reason. And there might be a great new beginning or there might be a great ending. So one thing I wanna say though is I don’t wanna freak people out if they’re in a relationship already and they get worried that that means that a relationship will end during this time. Because sometimes it just means in everybody’s lives and everyone’s relationships we go through different phases, and sometimes it can just be the closing or the ending of one phase in the relationship and the opening up of a new phase in a relationship that will then last for a number of years.
LS: Yeah. And since it’s the seventh house and it being not just partnership but your partner themselves, it can sometimes mean that your partner is having a major change in their life. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that the partnership has to end.
CB: Oh yeah, that’s huge actually.
LS: So shifts. Yeah.
CB: That’s a huge point.
CB: Aside from the first house, the first house is the main house that refers to you in your chart. But the other 11 houses don’t necessarily always have to do with you. Sometimes it refers to just other people in your life and things that are going on with them at that time. So if you have an eclipse in your seventh house, it may be that your partner, if you have a partner, is going through some major changes and they’re the one that’s having some major new beginning or ending at that time. If you have an eclipse taking place in your fifth house and you have children, it may be that there’s some major changes happening in your children’s lives at that time. If it’s happening in your fourth house, it might be your parents. If it’s your third house, your siblings. Your 11th house, your friends and so on and so forth. Sometimes people get tripped up because they look back and they see an eclipse, and then they don’t remember anything significant happening at that point in their life. But then if you ask them about the person associated with that house, they’ll say, “Oh yeah, they had a major change at that time in their life when they got married and then moved to a different country or their parents died at that time or their sibling got a major new job or something like that.” Sometimes it doesn’t have to do with you. It just has to do with other people in your life that you’re close to in some way.
LS: So I think that’s a good and/or to think of in any of the houses that involve other people in your life which is a lot of them. It can be a change going on with that person themselves. And that change may or may not then in turn affect your relationship with that person.
CB: Right. Do you have a question?
Unknown speaker: Yeah, a kind of general one. What if you have a lot of planets in one house? You have maybe five in the eighth house. And then I just have [unintelligible 00:32:17.21] Or just is there ever an example of this?
CB: It’s still gonna work the same way for you for the most part. If you have a stellium in a certain sign, then certainly if eclipses start happening in that sign we know that those eclipses are probably gonna be more important for you than they might be for somebody else. So that could be a way to identify which eclipses could be more important for you.
LS: But they can still be important either way even if you have no natal planets in that sign because it still represents an area of life.
CB: Yeah. And there’s other ways that eclipses can be more or less important as well. It’s probably too complicated for us to go into for the purpose of this. But for anybody that’s familiar with the timing technique known as annual profections, it’s a really simple timing technique where you just start with the rising sign. And whatever sign that is, the ruler of that sign is activated for the first year of your life. Then when that first year is up, you move to the next sign downwards in zodiacal order. And the ruler of that sign becomes activated for the next year of your life. Then you just keep counting forward one sign per year. So what happens is that in the years in your life when the signs Cancer or Leo are activated by annual profections, that means the Sun and Moon are activated in that year. And for that reason, those years tend to be much more important for eclipses than other years in our lives. So if you use the annual profections timing technique and you identify if you’re in a Cancer or a Leo profection year, that’s usually gonna tell you that that’s gonna be an important year for eclipses in your life whereas other year’s eclipses might come and go and not necessarily be as crucial as they could be.
LS: Right. So those are two major things to pay attention to as to whether the eclipses will be more important for you at a certain time, whether they’re activated in that way and/or whether they’re falling in your angular houses.
CB: Right. Some people focus on whether an eclipse falls very closely conjunct a natal planet, and I don’t know that that’s always necessarily a crucial deciding factor in terms of whether an eclipse is gonna be important necessarily.
LS: Yeah, I want it to be more reliable than I feel like I’ve observed it so far to be.
CB: Right. Yeah.
LS: Yeah, it seems like it would make sense. But, yeah, it seems like the house is more just the thing.
CB: Yeah, I think it just comes back to the idea that sometimes people focus on eclipses too much as being like exact timing things where a specific event is supposed to happen exactly on eclipse, but instead, what it’s doing is it’s opening up a whole six-month period of your life and looking at it more as like opening up a chapter in your life rather than always necessarily being a specific event. Like for example Obama getting elected in 2008 was certainly an event, but it was opening up a chapter in his life that lasted for the next eight years of being in the presidency. Or when you and I met, for example, there was an event in terms of me getting in a relationship with somebody else, but it was opening up what turned into an 11-year chapter of my life at that time. So think about eclipses as opening up a new chapter in your life or sometimes closing a chapter in your life. And while that can sometimes coincide roughly with specific events, usually it’s more of like a time period that it’s opening up in your life at that time. Okay. So that’s first house, seventh house. Is there any other first house topics? First house, as the self, sometimes can be physical changes with your body and your physical vitality. So that can be positive things, it can also be negative things like health issues. Other times it can be positive things like starting to take your health or your body more seriously in some way. The first house though is not just the physical body, but it can also be the mental body as well. So sometimes it can be changes in terms of your personality or your personal psychological characteristics. And if there’s things that you’ve wanted to change at different times in your life, sometimes eclipses falling in your first house can be a good time to open up a new phase with respect to just your character and your psyche in general. Yeah.
Unknown speaker: I have a question. [unintelligible 00:36:42.21]
CB: Sorry. Say that again.
Unknown speaker: [unintelligible 00:36:49.06]
CB: Any eclipse falling in your first house or your seventh house. Okay.
Unknown speaker: Yeah, it’s my [unintelligible 00:37:04.09]
Unknown speaker: [unintelligible 00:37:06.09]
CB: Okay. Do you feel like sharing that story both sort of somewhat concisely but also in more detail? Do you wanna share it?
Unknown speaker: Yeah, it is a–
CB: Would you mind talking to that mic that’s right next to you just so everybody can hear you?
Unknown speaker: There was a guy that I was engaged to and cohabiting with, and we had not had any fights up to that point. There was an eclipse. I just looked it up on the chart in Libra, three degrees and change. It was in 1987. Sorry, ’97. And one day he came home, and I’m on my computer. There’s only one computer in the house we shared. And he says, “Why are you spying on me?” I turned around to look at him. He rushed over, grabbed me, flipped me around, did some jiu-jitsu moves or whatever, slammed me to the ground, started smashing my head in, and then strangled me into unconsciousness.
Unknown speaker: And then something passed over him. I say that God saved me. But whatever happened, he decided to stop strangling me and go call 911 and turn himself in. So that’s a first house eclipse that I never wanna relive. I might not get another chance. I’m already on my second life.
CB: What’s your rising sign?
Unknown speaker: Libra.
CB: It is Libra. Okay.
Unknown speaker: Yes. And he was a seventh house person in many ways to my chart and in his life. It affected him as well, the same eclipse.
CB: Yeah, cause you–
Unknown speaker: He’s an Aries.
CB: Oh, he was an Aries?
Unknown speaker: Yeah.
CB: Okay. And you would have been having eclipses then bouncing back between your first house of self and body and health and also your seventh house of relationships. And that’s an interesting example because then it would tie both of those first house topics where obviously you had a really traumatic physical experience that I’m sure you had to heal from. But also just mentally and in terms of the sudden break with that relationship must have been hard in terms of readjusting your sense of selfhood as well.
Unknown speaker: Yes, and spirituality.
Unknown speaker: After that, I felt like I was born again or raised from the dead or however you wanna look at it. There’s certainly nothing I did to save myself at that point, but something passed over him and made him decide to go turn himself in. Full confession on 911.
CB: Did he go to jail or what?
Unknown speaker: Yeah.
Unknown speaker: Five years. No bail, no parole.
Unknown speaker: It was especially brutal. This whole side of my face was reconstructed.
CB: Wow. Yeah, I’m really sorry to hear that. But that’s a really amazing example. Thank you for sharing it.
Unknown speaker: Yes. Sorry, I just–Yeah, first house.
LS: Yeah, yeah.
Unknown speaker: Yeah, it’s very physical.
LS: Yeah, thank you.
CB: Thank you.
CB: All right, so I think that sets a really good basis in terms of starting to understand what are our approach is here and how we’re gonna do this. Does anybody else have any good examples that immediately springs to mind of either in the past or in the present with the current eclipse series if they’re falling in your first or seventh houses that spring to mind about major beginnings and major endings that took place in your life with the eclipses falling in your first or seventh houses? And it’s okay if nobody does. I’m just curious if there’s any more good examples so far. Yeah, you’re–
Unknown speaker: Now or even in the past other–
CB: It could either be now because since it started to happen, I know that there’s some people that already can see those changes happening in their life. So if you have a present example if Cancer or Capricorn is your first house, then that would be fine. Or if you’ve had an example in the past of them falling in your first and seventh house, that would be good as well. If you have one and definitely if you wanna speak into one of the mics.
Unknown speaker: Right now I also have a 10th house Cancer. But, separately, for the past on the seventh house. Right after the eclipse in 2017 in Pisces, I went on a medical leave to go into a mental institution from my job.
CB: And what’s your rising sign?
Unknown speaker: Rising sign’s Virgo.
Unknown speaker: And so around those other eclipses were when I was starting that job, I think, in the past. And then right after the eclipse in Pisces is when I took my leave.
CB: Okay, so Pisces in Virgo is your first house and seventh house?
Unknown speaker: Mhm.
CB: You’re having eclipses at that time. And then what? So you start going through some really serious emotional and mental stuff?
Unknown speaker: Existential crisis, essentially. Yeah. Cause I was crushing it at my job, getting all this external validation but just felt totally empty inside and was only focused on work, not seeing friends, not seeing family, not taking care of my health. Mentally, spiritually, just completely bankrupt and not really sleeping. And then just one day cracked, and my neighbor took me to the hospital.
CB: Okay. Yeah, so that’s tying in both of those things in terms of physical exhaustion and pushing yourself too far but also mentally eventually pushing yourself so that there was a major crisis at that point.
Unknown speaker: Yeah.
CB: And that’s actually sometimes a good keyword is a crisis that occurs in terms of things going as far as they can go or pushing something as far as it can go and then there being a turning point where something has to give or something has to change.
Unknown speaker: Mhm.
LS: Yeah. And you said that was in February of 2017?
Unknown speaker: It was right after, within a few days after.
Unknown speaker: Yeah.
LS: Cause I also noticed that makes sense in terms of tying in your first house. But that also was one of those times where the signs were crossing. And so that was actually the last eclipse in Pisces, and it was starting off the same month the eclipses in Leo and Aquarius. And so those would have been your sixth and 12th, right? Am I thinking about that right?
Unknown speaker: Yeah. Well, I guess it depends on your house calculation.
Unknown speaker: Yeah.
LS: Yeah, I was just thinking cause you did mention those keywords of a job and then also institutions. And those are very sixth and 12th. And so you kind of had the sort of trifecta of first house, sixth house, 12th house going on around that time.
Unknown speaker: Yeah.
CB: So what was the resolution or what ended up happening with it?
Unknown speaker: I took a long leave from work and then ended up ultimately leaving my job or got fired eventually cause I just couldn’t–It’s like going back to a bad relationship or it’s just too much damage is done. And then ended up moving here. I was in LA, so just completely rebuilt my life and found Kundalini yoga. Just totally changed my entire life. So it ended up being a positive thing, but it was in a very painful way.
CB: Sure. So you ended up finding other both physical and sort of mental or spiritual practices that helped you to pull things back together and then start a new phase in your life?
Unknown speaker: Exactly. Yeah.
CB: Okay. Brilliant. That’s a great example then, again, of it seems like there’s two recurring themes here of just a crisis or something that precipitates a major change. But then kind of doing the work or doing what you can to get through it and then eventually coming out the other side oftentimes improved or having made progress from where you started.
Unknown speaker: Definitely.
LS: Thank you.
CB: Thank you. That was a great example.
LS: Thank you for sharing.
Unknown speaker: Yeah.
CB: All right.
LS: We move on to second, eighth.
CB: So second house, eighth house. If eclipses start falling in your second house, then of course they’re gonna be bouncing back and forth with your eighth house at the same time. The two basic keywords for second house and eighth house is your money or your possessions, that which you value or that which belongs to you which is the second house. Or the eighth house which is that which belongs to other people or the money or financial resources of other people.
LS: Yeah. So eclipses in your second house often have to do with changes in how you make a living or the amount of money that you make. It can be raises, it can be new jobs because of the source of income. The eighth house can either if you have a partner, again similar to the seventh house, it can be your partner’s money changing. So them having a change in either how they make their income or an up or down in terms of the amount that they bring in particularly if it affects your own life, if you share any sort of expenses or live together. It can also be sort of more abstract collective resources having to do with financial things going out rather than in. So debts, taxes, loans, mortgages, those all go in the eighth house. Yeah, scholarships occasionally too because it’s the money of other people. So it’s basically they’re both financial houses, but they’re just distinguished by whether it’s purely your own money or somehow linked to other people’s money.
CB: Right. And then another major eighth house topic is mortality and issues related to mortality. And sometimes that can tie back into the financial topic in that it has to do with inheritance, so sometimes having major eclipses in your house can have to do with both the issues of having some sort of mortality issue come up in your life or having some sort of death. But also oftentimes you’ll see issues pertaining to the money or the finances of those who have passed away and what to do with them after that point coming into play at that time. And that’s often how the eighth house thing gets tied in with the second house in that it’s affecting both at the same time. Any other major keywords or topics for second house, eighth house?
LS: I think those are the main ones really.
CB: Does anybody have any good examples? Or can anybody think of any examples in your life so far in the past or even in the present if Cancer and Capricorn are your second house or your eighth house where that’s either coming into play or starting to come into play at the present time or came into play at some time in the past when it was falling in your second or eighth houses?
LS: You had one?
CB: Oh, you have one?
Unknown speaker: In January, February last year 2018, I had a death of a woman that I considered like a second mother to me. And it was–
CB: What’s your rising sign real quick?
Unknown speaker: I’m Cancer rising.
CB: Okay, continue.
Unknown speaker: It was in my eighth house. And I just looked at the next eclipse that happened there, and it was in Cancer. And that death actually affected me in my first house because it really changed who I was and how I felt about myself, and I went through some type of crisis identity wise.
CB: Who was it that passed away?
Unknown speaker: She’s one of my best friends that I had known for 20 plus years, but she was a lot older than me. And I grew up in her house. I met her when I was 14. And she was very influential to me and my best friends, and she was like a second mother, like a friend mother. But she was extremely important to me, and her death caused a bunch of inner turmoil and searching and everything. So it really changed the core of who I was. So I see that as pretty influential especially with eighth house. Didn’t necessarily go to second house but it did at first, so it’s one of those off–
CB: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense when there’s the eclipse that happened in Aquarius which is your eighth house and that was when your friend passed away.
Unknown speaker: Yeah. She actually committed suicide.
Unknown speaker: And the turmoil surrounding that and why and all of that really led to the questioning and searching.
CB: Right, cause then not long after that the eclipses would have shifted into Cancer and Capricorn and into your first house, seventh house axes. What was your process or what were you struggling with at that time that started making you obviously reflecting on that? But what were you struggling with with respect to that or how did it change you so far in terms of your sense of self?
Unknown speaker: It changed my whole viewpoint on life cause she had just gotten so many good things in her life going on that she hadn’t had in the past. And it made me question, what is the meaning of all this if you have everything that you have and you’re still miserable, then why does this happen? So I started actually going into to a deep spiritual kind of re-evaluation and got into astrology and got into everything. So that’s kind of what set everything off, and now I have a lot more basis for where I think things happen and why.
CB: Good. That’s good. And it’s nice cause we’re right in the middle of the Cancer-Capricorn eclipse series. And we still have what, another year of them. And sometimes it’s hard for people to see the changes that they’re going through when they’re in the middle of it, but it’s good that you already kind of see and have a sense for how that’s working out for you and what you need to do to try to deal with it. Yeah.
LS: Yeah. Thank you.
Unknown speaker: Yeah.
LS: And I wanted to comment on one more aspect of what it sounded like that was for you with the eighth house eclipse, which is that we did mention mortality with the eighth house. Though one signification we didn’t touch on but that sounded like resonance of was things that kind of make you go deep into yourself psychologically or psychological turmoil. Oftentimes people who go into depth psychology, whether it’s temporarily for a specific event like that or sort of more permanently like for career or something, they often have things in the eighth house. Yeah, that was a good example of that as well. Thanks for sharing. Yeah.
Unknown speaker: I’m going to comment about this because right now the Pluto is in Capricorn. And it’s opposing all the points for Cancer people. For example, it is opposing mine. And since Sun, Venus, Mars [unintelligible 00:52:12.25] which is squaring my Moon in Saturn if you can see that. So I wonder how much is it eclipses and how much it is from the Pluto opposing these points [unintelligible 00:52.26.05]
LS: Yeah. Yeah. And there’s so much crossover right now as we mentioned earlier. It won’t be only the eclipses happening in isolation, but in particular, I’m actually really feeling cause the next eclipse is happening in three days, and that’s actually the one that’s with Saturn and Pluto. And I’m kind of feeling that vibe here of our conversations so far because that’s the eclipse that happens right next to Pluto. Yeah. Especially the ones in Capricorn really tie all of that together for sure.
CB: Yeah, and it’s hard to just disentangle the eclipses happening right now in Cancer and Capricorn from the fact that Saturn and Pluto are going through Capricorn at the same exact time. And in some ways we’re almost kind of by isolating just the eclipses or trying to, we’re oversimplifying it and doing it injustice, but it’s still useful as an access point to try to start seeing some of the similarities for different people in different houses when eclipses start falling in those two houses. Yeah, but that does add to it having Saturn going through there and Pluto going through there at the same time.
Unknown speaker: [unintelligible 00:53:34.29]
LS: Yeah, there’s a lot. And all my client sessions for the past where I’ve been really highlighting the Capricorn house just cause there’s so much going on there.
CB: Yeah. And I meant to say to the last person since some of this stuff is happening also in your seventh house that to whatever extent you can, sometimes reaching out to other people or trying to establish new relationships with other people, well that might be one of the most difficult things at this time it might be part of the thing that could be useful or constructive in order to balance out some of the first house things that you’re going through. So sometimes that means just establishing new one-on-one relationships in your life, other times it can mean talking to somebody or sometimes even somebody playing the role of a counselor in your life that you can go to process some of those things can be a good seventh house manifestation. Yeah. All right. Does anybody else have any good second house? You’ve got one?
Unknown speaker: Yeah.
Unknown speaker: This is actually quite synchronistic. I was a college professor for 20 years, and I left that career. So second house is changing careers and income, right? Well, that’s where I am. And it actually happened in May is when I left, but July here is when it’s coming to a head. And I have to kind of move on to something else.
CB: What’s your rising sign again?
Unknown speaker: Sagittarius.
CB: Okay, so you have Sagittarius rising. So Capricorn’s your second house, and Cancer is your eighth house.
Unknown speaker: Mhm.
CB: And so you worked as a university professor for 20 years?
Unknown speaker: Mhm.
CB: Okay, and then what precipitated changing jobs or quitting at this time?
Unknown speaker: Pursuing astrology.
Unknown speaker: Amongst other things, reiki, tarot, that kind of thing.
CB: So you’re quitting basically what was your day job for 20 years and the thing that you made your income from to support your life and make your basic daily necessities in order to go out on a completely different venture for financial and material support?
Unknown speaker: Exactly. Yeah.
CB: Okay, and I’m sure that’s kind of a little bit scary or–
Unknown speaker: Scary. Yes sir. Yes.
CB: Yeah, okay. But it’s something that you’ve been wanting to do or thinking of doing for a while?
Unknown speaker: Oh. I’ve been wanting to leave that career for quite some time, several years at least. But didn’t know what else to do, so to speak. But my fiancée and I started up a business together and this kind of thing, and so I gave up. But it’s coming to a point where that’s kind of shifting which was a question I had as well actually. With this and looking at the natal charts for ourselves, but we can also do this for businesses for relationships that have a start date, correct? More or less.
LS: Yeah, yeah.
LS: Yeah, yeah. For sure.
CB: And you said something really briefly, but that’s actually super crucial because it ties into your eighth house. You said you started a business with your partner?
Unknown speaker: Mhm.
CB: Okay. So it’s not just you going out on yourself, but there’s an interplay between your finances and your partner’s finances.
Unknown speaker: Exactly. Actually, that’s a good point. So the eighth house she said was other people’s resources, right?
Unknown speaker: She put in her notice for a job that she’s had for 11 years. She put that in a few weeks ago. It was between the two eclipses I know that, right? Last Sunday, I think. And so we’re both pulling up and moving to Fort Collins in October, and neither of us have jobs or a place to live up there.
Unknown speaker: So we’re getting there. Okay.
LS: Yeah, that’s great. So that shows both of those income changes for both of you in your second and then in your eighth.
CB: I just changed the chart to your rising sign which you said is Sagittarius, right?
Unknown speaker: Yes, that’s correct. Everybody just shows you the houses that the eclipses are falling in in his chart which is the second whole sign house which is Capricorn and the eighth whole sign house which is Cancer. And that’s really amazing cause it’s not just a change in terms of your finances. But of course when we are talking about the eighth house being other people’s money or the partner’s finances, it’s because the eighth house is the second house relative to the seventh house. So if the seventh house is the partner, the eighth house is the partner’s second house of finances. So and this is just a brilliant example of both your finances changing with the second house but also your partner’s finances changing and being involved in the eighth house.
Unknown speaker: Yeah, thanks.
LS: Yeah, thank you.
CB: Thank you. That’s amazing.
LS: That was a great example.
CB: Okay. Well, I don’t think we’re gonna top that. So I almost wanna just move on–
LS: That was a good one. Yeah.
CB: –cause those are both really good examples.
CB: Okay. Yeah, let’s move on. The next set of houses or the next polarity is the third house and the ninth house. What are some of our keywords for third house, ninth house?
LS: So third house and ninth house have a lot of overlap and significations. One of them is travel although short distance travel tends to be the third house or more routine travel. And the ninth house tends to be longer distance travel or sort of more personally meaningful long distance travel can be the ninth house. But both of them can be travel houses. Also teaching and learning and studying both go in the third and the ninth. There’s quite a bit of overlap between those two. When you talk about actual schooling, the third house tends to get signified by elementary schools, younger children versus the ninth house being more higher education, universities. But the general topic of learning and studying and teaching can be third and ninth. The third is also siblings, and so eclipses in the third can be changes with your siblings, not necessarily only your relationship with your siblings. What other things am I missing?
CB: We had a great example earlier this year where somebody had Uranus or something going through their third house, and they decided to quit their job and travel the country with their sibling.
LS: Yeah, I think so.
CB: That was a really great example. It brought in both the third house travel themes cause I think they were driving around everywhere and living in their car. But it was also something they were doing with their sibling.
LS: Yeah, for sure. I think cars often go in the third house.
CB: Yeah, definitely.
LS: Yeah, yeah. Ninth house also religion, philosophy, astrology goes there, even sometimes political views, anything that are like big picture, how we make meaning of our lives or the world around us goes in the ninth house.
CB: Yeah. One of the main keywords in the polarity that I often use for the third and the ninth is that which you know or that which you’ve learned versus how you communicate what you know and how you bring it out into the world. So that’s part of the basic dynamic and the fundamental polarity that crosses back and forth and bounces back and forth and that there’s pieces of in each of those houses. So the third house especially has to do with communication and how you communicate and how you write or speak in the ninth house especially is tied in with education and learning and just the process of learning. So those are major topics and themes that can come up at that time. There’s some interplay between the two of them because for example the ninth house sometimes represents publishing. And the third house sometimes can represent education, especially lower education like when you’re in elementary school or things like that versus the ninth house can sometimes represent college and higher education. Finally, really concrete manifestations as you always said. Third house is short distance travel or travel within your city versus the ninth house as being foreign travel to different countries or just taking really long journeys.
LS: Or places you don’t go often that are far away.
CB: Yeah. And the ninth house then sometimes gets extended to that which is foreign or foreigners in general, people that come from a different cultural or sometimes even religious or philosophical background from you and your exposure to them and the way that it affects or changes your life.
LS: Yeah, cross cultural experiences even if you’re not personally traveling I’ve sometimes seen with ninth house things. So sometimes it’s those people coming to you and you learning something new from them.
CB: Yeah, and finally the third house can also represent not just your siblings but sometimes other extended family like aunts and uncles and cousins and things like that.
LS: Yeah, assorted relatives go there.
CB: Which it’s like, for some people, that’s not a big deal or that’s not a big topic in their life. Whereas, for other people, that’s a major topic in their life. And their cousins or aunts or uncles or what have you play a major role in their life. That’s one of the tricky things about astrology is it’s all relative to each person. And for some people, some of these topics are gonna be crucial topics in your life depending on how your birth chart is set up. And for other people, those topics may not be very significant in your life if that’s not a major factor or major area of your chart. So that definitely comes into play here in terms of how the birth chart is initially set up and what the eclipses are activating in terms of that, what did the eclipses have to work with. All right. Can anybody think of any current changes in your life in the third house, ninth house axis or any past instances of eclipse falling in your third or ninth especially whole sign houses and major changes with those topics in your life like beginnings or endings that coincided with that? No? Anybody? Do you have any good ones?
LS: I have a good generic one although I don’t like–Yeah. But when I had the eclipse series in my ninth house, I went overseas for one of the only–I hadn’t traveled overseas very often. During the time of that eclipse I was overseas. I was partially funded by a religious scholarship, and I was there working and volunteering with a different sort of quasi-religious group. So it was several different ninth house themes, and that was during the eclipse series in my ninth house.
CB: So you’re traveling in a foreign country, you’re working in a foreign country partially funded by a religious organization, and then a major event also occurred around that time in a foreign country, right?
LS: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But it was just funny how many there were several different ninth house boxes ticked there. Yeah.
CB: Do you wanna go into that more?
CB: Okay, that’s fine. Yeah, so that’s a good example of sometimes just something happening involving foreigners or a foreign country or one’s philosophical or religious beliefs. I’ve seen somewhere it’s like major changes in one’s religion where I’ve seen people quit an entire religious belief that they had their entire life up to that point and go through a spiritual or religious transformation where maybe they went from one religion to another or they decided to stop being religious altogether. The ninth house also has to do with astrology and just other beliefs or other, not beliefs but practices like that. So that can sometimes include metaphysical studies.
LS: Right. Divination can sometimes be given to the ninth house.
CB: So sometimes people starting to do astrology, although that house is funny because sometimes if there’s negative indications for that house, it can mean… I’ve seen skeptics that have Saturn in the ninth house and they stopped believing in astrology at that time which ironically is when the astrology said that they would stop believing in it.
LS: Right. Right. Yeah. Right. Even atheism or even skepticism or things like that, those are worldviews. And so that still goes to the ninth house even if it’s like a negating of a worldview or your worldview is that there is nothing there. That’s still something going on with the ninth house.
Unknown speaker: Yeah.
CB: Did you have a question or example?
Unknown speaker: Yeah. With that [unintelligible 01:05:40.02] Because I know that houses can be in certain areas where it’s happening, but they’re not exactly the same as a sign itself.
CB: Right. Yeah, there’s some overlap because Jupiter as the ruler of Sagittarius has some of the same themes and some of the same significations that it brings into that sign in terms of education or foreign experiences and things like that or religious experiences and philosophy. So there’s definitely some overlap with the sign of Sagittarius, but it’s not like a complete one-to-one correspondence between the ninth house and Sagittarius.
Unknown speaker: Right.
CB: Is that what you were asking?
Unknown speaker: Yeah.
LS: Any other third house, ninth house examples that people can remember? Anyone?
Unknown speaker: I’ve been looking at your list of eclipses here. Last time it was in Gemini-Sag which is my third house, ninth house. That was when I was in college and I picked up my religion [unintelligible 01:06:42.28]
LS: Okay, what’s your rising sign?
CB: Okay. Do you feel like sharing that story in detail? Okay, let’s do it. All right, so let me set it up. When you grew up, what religion or do you feel like just going into specifics?
Unknown Speaker: No, that is fine. I grew up very conservative Christian and my family still is very conservative Christian. And when I went to college, religion just didn’t make sense to me. I tried to go to church, I tried to find what I was supposed to find in Christianity and it never clicked. So, I really was afraid of going to hell because when you are brought up in this religion, that’s what the consequences if you leave is you’re going to go to hell. Eventually, I took a class in college which I think just from looking at the dates, it’s probably about the time the eclipses were happening in the third and ninth house for me, and I took an anthropology class, and we learned how religion evolved over time. And it was like the light bulb went on and oh, so religion is a creation of people and it’s not the end all be all so therefore, I’m not going to hell so therefore I’m okay. And that was a really big shift in my life.
LS: What was your rising sign again?
Unknown Speaker: Libra.
CB: And what was your educational background up to that point before you went to college? Did you go to normal school or were you homeschooled or anything like that?
Unknown Speaker: No, it was just regular school. But we went to church every Sunday, we did the Sunday school thing, I was confirmed in junior high and that whole bit.
CB: And then was that like a process or was that like an overnight thing for you?
Unknown Speaker: Well, it was definitely a process going through the class and then I think the aha moment was the realization that oh, okay, wait a minute, all right. I’m going to be okay. This is fine. But it did begin a long process of me having to make a new relationship with religion because my family still is very religious. So, years later, I had to go to therapy. I’d have to look at look at the dates again to find out when I was in therapy to be able to deal better with all of that, but yeah.
CB: Yeah, that makes sense. And that’s another good example in terms of there being obviously like a triggering event sometimes, but then the actual change being a process that takes place over the course of several months and not necessarily being something that happens entirely like overnight.
Unknown Speaker: Yeah, it was probably more like a 10 or 15-year process of getting… I mean, I got over the religion for me personally, right away, but it was hard to deal with my family for a long time. And it was maybe, I don’t know, six or eight years ago, maybe that I went through the therapy and now I’m good with the family. We’re all good now. I still don’t go to church with them, but it’s okay.
CB: Yeah. Well, and it’s interesting because then at some point, you must have gotten into other things. Like you’re at an astrology meeting now, for example, when did that come into play or when did you start studying things like that?
Unknown Speaker: That was early 2000s.
CB: Okay. Yeah. Well, that might be interesting to see at some point.
Unknown Speaker: Yeah, I’d have to go look and see what was going on then for sure.
CB: Cool. All right. Thanks for sharing that.
LS: Yeah, thank you.
CB: All right. Can anybody else think of any good third house, ninth house examples that have happened in your life so far in the past that touch on any of those topics? No? Okay. That’s all right. One of the things usually like after these meetings, we’ll get like five or six people that’ll write us afterwards saying that they were driving home and they realized like 20 topics that came up and how they’re connected with their life, but sometimes it’s a little hard to think of it on the spot. All right. Should we move to the next one? Okay, so fourth house and 10th houses, when eclipses are falling in those houses in your chart, the two major topics are career versus your home and living situation as really primary things. Or more broadly, you could think of the 10th house as your public life, which is often tied in with your career and your reputation, versus the fourth house as your private life and your home and your roots and your sense of where you come from and where you’re grounded in your life.
LS: Fourth house eclipses can bring changes with regard to your actual physical living situation, your house, your apartment, what have you. You can move. Sometimes people move during eclipses there. It can also have to do with your parents specifically or your family in general, either/or. And then finally, as you mentioned roots, it can be like things more abstractly with regard to your ancestry, genealogy, sometimes I’ve seen people like find family members that they weren’t aware of when there’s stuff going on in their fourth. So basically, home and family are the big categories, but there can be some of those specifics within that.
CB: Right. Like changes happening with your family?
LS: Yeah, yeah, changes happening with your family or between you and your family, either/or. Yeah.
CB: Right, okay. The 10th house can also represent not just your career, but your overall sense of your life direction and where you’re headed with your life.
LS: Yeah, I mean, 10th house is a little more straightforward than a lot of houses. I mean, so much can just be your career or where you work or sometimes your supervisor, your boss can be your 10th house. It can also be your public role in life and that can be like a non-paid public role if you have other public roles that you have in your community or what have you. And sometimes like how you’re seen publicly, so sometimes a change of status can be either first house or 10th house. If you’re married or divorced, that kind of thing can also have some impact on your 10th house because it’s how you’re seen publicly.
CB: Right. Yeah. Does anyone have any good fourth house, 10th house examples? You have one?
Unknown Speaker: [unintelligible 01:12:59.13] best parts of my career in engineering happened during the time when [unintelligible 01:13:12.23]
CB: And you might want to say into the mic just so everyone can hear you.
Unknown Speaker: Having Libra rising, I have Cancer on the 10th, Capricorn on the fourth, so it’s a fourth-10th thing. And June ‘92, I got the best job probably of my entire career of engineering and I was in charge of the engineering department in BellSouth Mobility in Atlanta. And I was in charge of not only the whole state, but also for the Olympics so I got to work with the International Olympic Committee and all kinds of stuff. It was fun. That was probably the highlight of my career. And then in 2000, same polarity of eclipses, I got engaged to my husband and we got married shortly thereafter.
CB: Oh wow, okay. Yeah, your home life. That’s a really good example. Yeah, having a major career change and then it was something that you got the job and you got what you said was the best job, but then it was something that lasted for a number of years after that point. Okay, that’s good.
LS: Good. Yeah, that’s a great example. Yeah. So, another one? There’s one? Yeah.
Unknown Speaker: I’m also a Libra rising. Apparently, we are representing at this meeting. Last August, I moved back in with my mom and then I picked up a new job early January. I also worked a seasonal job, so I was working about 50 to 60 hours a week and going to school full time. This came to a head where I finally realized working so much was impacting my home life. I take care of a bunch of animals, horses, chickens, dogs, cats, little zoo. So, I finally had to put in my two weeks to this job. I’m not going back to my seasonal job and I’m catching up on six months’ worth of foregone projects at my home. My mom is also being deployed at the end of July so I’m going to be the only person at the house taking care of everything for the next about six months or so.
CB: She’s being deployed in like the military?
Unknown Speaker: Yes.
CB: Okay. So, you’ll be in charge of running things at home?
Unknown Speaker: Yep, every last thing. That’s going to be a full-time job in and of itself, which is why I had to quit everything I was doing.
CB: And all of this started you said last summer, basically?
Unknown Speaker: So I moved in with her last August, but I didn’t pick up a new job until the end of December and I also picked up a seasonal job and then school full time.
CB: I mean that’s perfect because it goes back to there’s like a debate about whether the first eclipse that happened last summer… Was that Cancer?
LS: It was Cancer, yeah.
CB: Yeah, it was because it was like just barely part of the Moon passed over part of the Sun so it was a very, very partial eclipse in Cancer, and there’s a debate with some astrologers about whether that counted or whether it was even an eclipse yet. I was more on the side of like that counts and that it’s going to start the Cancer-Capricorn eclipse series and even though it might not be the most intense part, which is more happening now that it’s getting close to total eclipses, that we would still see the opening phase of the sequence of events in some people’s lives and it sounds like that’s definitely the case with you.
Unknown Speaker: Oh, yeah. I’m also a Cancer Sun opposite Uranus and Neptune conjunction in the fourth. And going back to the depth theme we have tonight, also a lot of my animals have gotten sick really suddenly and I haven’t been able to spend as much time with them, which has also impacted everything, but yeah.
CB: Yeah. I mean, that really also ties in that idea of sometimes that we were talking about earlier a few of the examples of like pushing things really far almost like sometimes a Full Moon or a lunar eclipse, which is just a supercharged Full Moon, it’s when the Moon gets its brightest but it’s also like as far away from the Sun as it can get, it’s almost like pulling a rubber band as far as it can go where you can’t go any further and then you reach that crisis or that turning point where something has to give or something has to change. It sounds like you’ve run into that similar theme of pushing things really far and then there being a crisis or a turning point where you then have to reorient or recalibrate things.
Unknown Speaker: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
CB: Definitely. All right. That’s a great–
LS: That’s a great a great example. Thank you.
CB: Yeah, thank you for sharing that.
LS: Yeah. And that’s so great also just to show how they bounce back and forth and how the opposing houses can affect each other, especially during the eclipses.
CB: Right, yeah and tying in those polarities. One of the things I wanted to clarify both for this and for the recording and I wanted to just reflect on for a second is notice the way that we’re doing this is as like a dialogue with the person we’re talking to and that’s very much like what an astrological consultation is supposed to be and often is. It’s like you could sometimes talk as the astrologer if you’re sitting down with a client at a person and you can say, well, it could mean this, this and this, but that’s not always as useful. And oftentimes, it’s far more effective to have a dialogue with a person where you go back and forth and understand the context of their life. And in understanding the context of a person’s life and helping them to draw out and understand how the astrology is tying into the events in their life as part of like a mutual understanding or something that you’re both involved in and working towards or working at, that’s like a really effective way or a far more effective way to have consultations than just like speaking at a person.
LS: Yeah, for sure. Because you can lay the groundwork as to this is the general area and some of the main topics that it can pertain to, but then oftentimes, that’ll spark an idea from the other person which will in turn spark an idea from you as to how things are playing out in the astrology and back and forth.
CB: Right, which then ironically, is similar to the eclipse thing itself which is like a bouncing back and forth between one thing and its opposite.
LS: Yeah. And also, frequently specific manifestations you might not have ever thought up on your own, people will tell you if you like give the little intro and then you both can have new insights around that.
CB: Yeah, because your job is to try to explain the archetype or something as close as you can to what the overlying archetype is. And then oftentimes, they’ll end up filling in the specific manifestation and you go from there. Hold on, Joseph had a question first.
Joseph: No, actually I have an example.
CB: You’ve got one? Okay. Okay, yeah. Do you want to come and share it? Come to this one because it’s a little taller.
Joseph: I’m also Libra rising. All the Libra risings, come on up. 2009 was the first set of Capricorn and Cancer eclipses that summer. And that year I was doing a lot of music and doing a lot of performing and I ended up starting to go to college for graphic design. And that following year 2010, we had the second set of eclipses which triggered me looking for new jobs and the career I was taking or the field I was studying, graphic design, programming that kind of thing. And 2010 is when I finally got a good job interview and I basically got hired for graphic design as basically while I was still in school, and so I ended up dropping out of school for the career because it was a full-time thing and that started in 2011, I started work January 7th and the Capricorn eclipse happened there January 4. And that started a series of things where I wasn’t staying home a lot, I was trying to find my independence. It was the most money I’ve ever made, it was a great opportunity, and I really loved the job. Well, let’s just go ahead and skip into the most recent ones. I think it was 2014-2013-2015, yeah. Yeah. Okay, I’ll skip those ones. Okay. So recently, the past set of eclipses it’s like a string of pearls where earlier this January, we had the eclipse falling I believe it was in Capricorn, was it?
LS: Yeah, that was the first Capricorn.
Joseph: Okay, yeah. A few days after that eclipse, my father ended up getting pretty ill. He has leukemia, and it was like a surprise to us. And right around that time, I also got a raise with my job. I get to work from home as a graphic designer too so I don’t know if that’s a theme. But now that these eclipses are coming again, I find myself getting another raise. I’m doing other types of jobs like working with different groups and that kind of thing and some things concluding with the home and family like I’m getting more support from my family, that kind of thing. But I’m also wanting to like change my career right now. I want to get back into music like I was doing nine years ago, 10 years ago. I’m just starting to strive for things like that. I’m actually going to be auditioning for America’s Got Talent later this December. I want to do music again really seriously. I started writing again. So, there’s a lot going on with the home and family, with my father, work, and where I really want to be and where I want to take my life direction and where I want to be seen or noticed, that kind of thing.
CB: Yeah, that sounds like those keywords like major beginnings and major endings are really taking place in both of those areas of your life in the fourth house and the 10th house.
Joseph: Yes. Yeah, absolutely. So, a lot of career changes and a lot of mainly ups with careers and then obviously like with the father being Saturnian and Capricorn energy and that stellium of Saturn-Pluto and then soon Jupiter in that house, which is really interesting because I have a Cancer Midheaven and this upcoming eclipse is falling on my IC, so I’m expecting some things going on with the home and family and maybe stuff going on with my landlord, not entirely certain.
CB: Yeah, that’s a really great example. Thank you for sharing that.
LS: Yeah, thank you. That was like a whole list of things that are fourth and 10th. Yeah, great.
CB: All right. I think that’s good for the fourth and the 10th house. Okay. Let’s move on to the fifth and the 11th, do the last two sets of polarities before we run out of time. Fifth house, 11th house, two of the major external in terms of people in your life topics that always come up with those two houses is the fifth house relating to children or the general topic of children in general, whether your own or just like younger people, younger children in your life in general if there are any, and the 11th house pertaining to friends, groups and alliances.
LS: Yeah, and some more. Fifth is very focused on children. As you said, either children around, your own children, trying to have children, so pregnancy, conception, all of those things go in the fifth house. Sexuality goes there for similar tied in reasons. Also, things that you just do for fun. So, fifth house is recreation. It’s also creative expression, so often when people are creating artistic things, whether that’s painting or music or whatever will be something going on with the fifth house. I think those are the main areas of the fifth house. Did I miss any?
CB: I’m trying to think. No, I mean, that’s primarily it.
LS: I think it’s mainly those.
CB: Especially for the current eclipse series, which I should have been saying all the entire time, but we were doing incidentally, but this will be especially like Virgo risings where Capricorn is your fifth whole sign house and Cancer is your 11th house and then Pisces risings as well where it’s the reverse.
LS: Yeah. And so, then 11th house topics, friends, groups, associations, so whether that’s personal friends that are informal friends to you, it can also be more formalized networks of people on your social sphere. So that can be professional organizations, any groups of any sort that you belong to whether recreational or professional. Sometimes I see the internet go in the 11th house because it’s a broad abstract network of people or a social sphere, especially social media, I guess I would say, because that’s a network of people you know. Are there things I’m missing in the 11th house?
CB: Something your groups sometimes we’ve seen astrologers and things like an astrology group or getting involved in a local astrology group can be an example of an 11th house thing. Or we’ve had some younger friends that have like 11th house stuff being activated in their chart and going to their first astrology conference. Yeah.
LS: Right, because that can represent either longtime ongoing groups or ongoing friendships or it can be just more of a one off or like you go to this big group gathering for a certain period of time. Yeah.
CB: Yeah. All right. Can anybody think of any current or past examples of having eclipses in your fifth or 11th houses and how that’s worked out in your life so far? No examples? You have one?
Unknown Speaker: I guess this isn’t really as drastic as a lot of other peoples’ and this isn’t going off of the whole signs system, this is Placidus. I have Cancer in my fifth house. And recently, I just decided I was focusing way too much on my business. I was like completely neglecting my social groups and I decided to just step out of that and reach out to all my friends. And I actually wasn’t really aware of it at the time, but that’s like around the time that the solar eclipse was happening. And this is my first astrology meetup, so yeah.
CB: [unintelligible 01:28:16.22] idea of just like friends and groups suddenly becoming… And that’s funny because those are like independent things, right? It’s not necessarily something you’re doing deliberately, but both of those almost 11th and fifth house topics just arose naturally from within you at this time.
Unknown Speaker: Yeah, I was getting to a point where I was very, very serious. I was going home from my full-time job and then I was working on my business. And it was getting to the point where I was just not seeing any of my friends and I was getting really depressed and I just had this shift where I was like I’m not doing that. I need to talk to my friends. I need to socialize. I need to get back into groups. And so, I started hanging out with communities that I used to hang out with and just reaching out to people and that’s where I am right now.
CB: Sure. And that brings in another fifth house topic which is just like leisure activities or that which a person does for leisure or just to have fun in their life sometimes, which sounds like a weird little off topic to assign an entire house to, but sometimes that can be a really crucial factor in people’s lives, especially when you push yourself too far and realize that you have like a deficiency of that in your life at some point.
Unknown Speaker: Yeah, that’s what it was. I was like, I need to have fun. Yeah.
CB: Yeah. And what is your rising sign just out of curiosity?
Unknown Speaker: Aquarius.
CB: Okay. All right. Cool, that’s a really good example. Thanks for sharing that.
LS: Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I think it’s also a really good example of like why it’s important to pay attention to all these different house meetings because we’re culturally programmed to think that some topics are more important than others or that we should focus most of our life energy on, but anything that can happen in life or anything you can focus on in life is represented somewhere in the chart and so it’s nice to see how these get activated. And then those can be more important, especially at certain times in one’s life.
CB: Yeah. Yeah, especially, like I said, if you’re overlooking or if something’s being suppressed or withheld, and sometimes that being the crisis that you reach when you realize that that thing that otherwise seems like an unimportant topic that its deficiency is causing a major crisis in your life for some reason. Yeah. Yeah, that’s a really good example. Does anybody else have a good fifth house or 11th house example that you can think of either currently or in your life in the past? No? Okay. Do you have one, Leisa?
LS: I was just trying to quickly see if I had one or not. I don’t quite yet.
CB: Okay. Yeah, shoot.
Unknown Speaker: I do have Capricorn in my [unintelligible 01:31:03.03] and so I’m just curious about, like generally, that just seems like [unintelligible 01:31:08.24] and so I’m trying to pay attention to is it about getting more serious in the structure around the things that can create [únintelligible 01:31:23.04] I’m just trying to understand how the eclipse between the house can be for better or worse [unintelligible 01:31:30.16]
CB: Yeah. I mean, even if you don’t have planets in a house, what you’d want to do is look at where the ruler of that house is located in the chart. So, where is Saturn, for example, is the ruler of your fifth house as describing the way that fifth house topics are manifested in your life, and that’s often if you’re just looking at the natal chart itself would be your starting point for understanding how fifth house topics work out for you and some of the dynamics that are likely to arise and then the eclipses often will just act as triggers that will activate the manifestation of some of those topics that were lying there dormant in the birth chart.
LS: And it just means it doesn’t negate that you have any fifth house feelings. It just makes them a little more serious if you have Saturn inner ruling the fifth house. It also makes things more concrete so sometimes people want to make like concrete actual finished works of art or something like that, or creative pursuits and they actually take it more seriously. So that doesn’t actually have to be a bad thing because it can mean that you take it seriously enough to create something out of that.
CB: Yeah. Or sometimes like giving structure and doing fifth house activities but doing it in a structured way. I think one of my favorite Virgo rising Capricorn fifth house examples if I’m remembering correctly is actually Tiger Woods, who has taken what is a game like a leisure activity like golf which a lot of people just do to blow off steam and that’s like his career that he’s excelled and become like the top golfer in the world at different points in his life through training himself since he was very young to be the best golfer in the world. That’s like an extreme example but that’s like a fifth house Saturn-Capricorn example that comes to mind for me
LS: Yeah, it’s like that. It’s basically you take it seriously enough to make something out of it rather than have maybe more of the one-off experiences of going out and having fun. You take something of that fifth house topic at least one topic in there and keep working on it and sometimes excel in it therefore. I’ve seen another example of someone who was really serious about investing speculation, which is very like Capricornian, is very like business like but the fifth house can be speculation. It’s things that you do for chance or that aren’t guaranteed. Gambling goes there. That was one of my favorite like oh, I never would have thought of that manifestation kind of conversations. Yeah.
CB: Right. Okay. Was there another question?
Unknown Speaker: [unintelligible 01:34:06.28]
CB: When had you met her? Or actually, would you mind coming to the mic? Because that’s a good example. All right. We have to hear the elope story first before you go on to the other thing.
Unknown Speaker: Yeah. This is someone who was like love at first sight kind of thing when I was 16, and then we got separated for five years. This was before social media so like no way to contact each other, really randomly came back into each other’s lives five years later through a crazy series of events. And then within six months, we eloped in Hawaii and I moved to Hawaii after college.
CB: And you said that you eloped with him like a day or two of the eclipse?
Unknown Speaker: The day before the Capricorn eclipse and I have Capricorn in my fifth. And then we filed for divorce November 9th, 2012, a few days before Scorpio eclipse. And then I could remarry May 10th, 2013 during a Taurus eclipse and that was like to the day as well.
CB: Okay. For some reason, your relationships with that person in particular are hugely tied into eclipses.
Unknown Speaker: Apparently. I’m trying to figure out because the houses don’t exactly correlate, so I don’t know if you guys have any…
CB: I’m curious about like your synastry and what his chart looks like and if you have something in your composite chart or something that’s making eclipses not just important for you but important for both of you or the relationship in general or maybe the first meeting chart or something like that. You did mention when eloping that you said that you had met six months earlier, which made me wonder about the previous eclipse that would have taken place six months before you actually got married because that probably would have then happened when you reconnected would have been on an eclipse or close to one as well.
Unknown Speaker: Yeah, that’s true. I’ll have to take a look at that. What’s the thing that you said before? Sorry.
LS: About it happening either with his chart or a composite chart.
Unknown Speaker: Yeah, I have my Moon in Capricorn as well and he’s a Capricorn and has a ton of Capricorn in his chart, but I think there’s also yeah, probably like karmic connections and stuff.
CB: What’s your Sun sign?
Unknown Speaker: Cancer. So that’s what’s confusing too is like I always thought I’m a 10th house Cancer, but then on the whole sign, I have Gemini 10th house.
CB: Sure. And part of what I should say is even though we’re using whole sign as our framework and our primary starting point, it’s okay then to overlap Placidus and other forms of house division on top of that for additional information and like reconciling those two is ultimately the goal. So, it’s not necessarily that we’re completely rejecting or negating the quadrant houses, but just integrating the whole sign as this initial starting point. But if you have your Sun in Cancer and your Moon is in Capricorn, right, that means you were a born on a Full Moon so that might be part of the reason why it’s important for you or they might be more important for you because you have an important lunation on your birth chart.
Unknown Speaker: Yeah, that makes sense because to the exact day too, I reconnected with one, he was a Navy Seal, one of his former teammates on this past one in January. Yeah.
CB: Where are your nodes?
Unknown Speaker: What’s that?
CB: Do you know what signs your nodes are in?
Unknown Speaker: Yeah, Libra is my south node and Aries then obviously the north node.
CB: Then you would be born at the halfway point between two eclipses because if the nodes are square to the luminaries, then that means you’re born at the lunations that fall exactly halfway through an eclipse series. And that’s like a whole other thing that it’s too complicated to get through today, but that we’re focusing on just the eclipses and their polarity between those two signs. But oftentimes, during the course of the eventuation of what manifests from the eclipses, there’s an important turning point at the lunation halfway between the eclipses. The eclipses happen in six-month increments, but in three-month increments after the eclipses, you’ll have a set of lunations that are in the signs that are halfway between the eclipse signs. For example, we’re having Capricorn and Cancer eclipses this month and in three months, there’ll be an important turning point when there’s a Full Moon and New Moon in Aries and Libra, so it’s like part of the whole eclipse cycle and the way that it grows and manifests during the course of those six-month periods. Anyway, but you might have been born at one of those important turning points and that could be part of why it’s more important for you.
Unknown Speaker: Okay, thank you.
CB: Yeah, thanks for sharing that. All right. Any other 11th house, fifth house examples before we move on? Yeah.
Unknown Speaker: [unintelligible 01:39:30.00]
CB: Sorry, I can’t hear you just because of the… Could you speak up?
Unknown Speaker: [únintelligible 01:39:34.29]
CB: You have Venus, did you say at 24° of Taurus?
LS: Yeah. So, you’re wondering about aspects by degree? Okay. I mean, I personally put most of the focus on the houses that it’s happening in and not too much especially because what that would be a trine. Yeah, especially if it’s not like a hard aspect like a square opposition or conjunction.
CB: And if you have Capricorn rising, that’s what you said, right? It’s going to be hard to tell because then it’s going to bounce back and forth between the first and the seventh house anyways, so there might be relationship stuff that comes anyways so it’s going to be hard to distinguish between is that coming from the seventh house activity or is that coming from the aspect of Venus. Yeah. But usually, at least for us, we don’t focus as much on aspects, primarily just the house that falls in, but that’s certainly something that’s worth researching if there’s a way that you could isolate it in different eclipses. All right. I guess this is our last set of houses. Yeah. All right. What are your sixth and 12th house topics?
LS: Yeah, so sixth and 12th.
CB: What are your sixth and 12th house topics?
LS: I mean I often think of the polarity being sixth house, physical health or health issues that arise, 12th house mental health, although certainly physical health can go in both places. The sixth also has to do with work so sometimes either your coworkers. If you have employees, they go in the sixth house. Pets often go in the sixth house. I always forget about pets and then those always show up with people telling me sixth house things. I’m trying to think any other major thing. Animals in general go in the sixth house. Yeah, your job, but usually more subordinate roles. Usually, the 10th house is more career. And then 12th house is anything that takes you away from everyday life and so it’s a place of solitude and so that can be positive or negative. On the positive side, it can be like ashrams, meditation centers, things you proactively go to get away from things to have more quiet time. And in general, I think 12th house can be more like what kind of rest do I need? Oftentimes, when there’s things going on with sixth and 12th is balancing your workload or how much work you need to do and how much you need to rest and take time for yourself to do nothing. 12th house also has to do with any other institutions that take you away from everyday society. That can be prisons, mental institutions, yeah, any things like that. I feel like I’m forgetting one, but basically institutions. Yeah, hospitals, yeah. That’s the one I was trying to think of. Yeah, I think a lot of those two.
CB: Yeah, so we’re ending with the fun houses, basically. Okay. Because the only other two fun topics I would point out for the 12th house is generally endings and the idea of endings because it’s the last of the 12 houses. And when the planets are moving in zodiacal order, they start with the first house and they move to the second and third and so on and so forth and eventually, you get to the 12th. And sometimes, as a result of that the 12th house has this feeling of closing down a cycle before you open up a new one. So that’s one topic that I see commonly with the 12th is this idea of endings or letting go of something that which you have to let go of. The other 12th house topic that’s fun and weird to think about is the idea of “enemies” which is a traditional assignment of the 12th house that sounds bizarre and extreme, but oftentimes or sometimes does come up where if the 11th house is the place of friends and alliances, then there has to be a house that indicates the opposite of that and the 12th house is oftentimes where that falls. Where if the 11th house is like people that you get along with and you share some affinity with and where you help each other and you’re mutually supportive, the 12th house is just that place where sometimes you meet people in your life where you are at cross purposes. And despite sometimes your best efforts, there’s just certain people that you don’t get along with or in some instances, it comes to more extreme manifestations of you really become not positive influences in each other’s lives. Sometimes thinking about that’s not necessarily going to be a relevant topic in everybody’s life but occasionally, people do get into trouble or they get into issues with another person in their life who has a negative or destructive influence and sometimes you’ll see the 12th house being activated in those cases.
LS: Yeah, and I would add one more. The 12th house doesn’t have just to do with mental institutions, but I would say the mental health thing, the piece of the modern psychological take on the 12th house that I do definitely agree with is one’s subconscious or one’s internal workings, even if that’s not the only thing I associate with the 12th house. But so oftentimes, when there’s activity going on in the 12th house, you can have stirrings in the more deeper recesses of your mind that you weren’t aware were issues. And so, things can come up that are like triggers that aren’t normally at the forefront of your mind and you’re like, oh, I didn’t realize that was like something I still needed to work through or that kind of thing. And so, going for counseling or that type of thing can be like a 12th house thing as well.
CB: Yeah. And just reiterating something you already touched on earlier about the 12th house is the idea of sometimes like pulling back from the world and sometimes going on an internal journey or the dark night of the soul phase is sometimes like a 12th house type topic. Okay. Does that spark any ideas or memories? Does anybody have a good example of that? Yeah, in the back? Sure.
Unknown Speaker: [unintelligible 01:45:25.27]
CB: Okay. Yeah, I mean, one of the issues with all these topics is there’s sometimes just some interplay between the topics and going all the way back to like the second century, the astrologer Vettius Valens from Alexandria, he gives a list of significations of all the houses and then at the very end, he has a sentence that says each of the house signifies what it properly means, but then the opposite house cooperates and there’s an interplay of those significations. So yeah, sometimes you will see that.
LS: The sixth house, 12th house examples that you all are recognizing from that list, do you know any?
CB: I’m trying to think. I mean, there’s positive examples where I’ve seen clients who had a health crisis when there’s like an eclipse in their sixth, but then they got more serious about their health and turned things around and started like a new diet or exercise regime and got really serious about doing exercise and getting fit. I’ve seen that as a notable like 12th house example. Oh sorry, sixth house example.
LS: Yeah. Yeah, I’ve seen a lot of health things crop up with sixth house as well as new jobs sometimes starting or ending jobs, like their success.
CB: Yeah, jobs are huge and like what one does for work basically or your job is definitely a major sixth house topic. I’ve seen others where it’s one of those things where again, it seems like a minor topic, but the sixth has always been the place of subordinates or those who work in a role that’s subordinate to you, which often manifests as like employees if you run your own business. And so, sometimes I’ve seen instances where a person had an eclipse in the sixth house and somebody came into their life that ended up being their assistant and playing an important support role in helping them to achieve things with their business or their career that they wouldn’t have been able to achieve otherwise without somebody coming in and helping them out in that way. Yeah. Can you think of any other examples that you’ve seen in like client charts?
LS: Sixth, for sure, I’ve seen a lot of both of those, so work and health. 12th house, I think I’ve seen sometimes, but again, it’s the polarity of health with the sixth and the 12th cooperating where sometimes people need to take time off from work because of a health thing and then that becomes the seclusion part of the 12th house or the resting and rejuvenating of the 12th house. Did you have one?
Joseph: Yes, I have one. This thing is so low.
CB: You can raise it actually.
Joseph: Oh, I won’t mess with it. But I was going to tell you this because it’s interesting with what I just shared, right? My fiancée, this is in her sixth house, this eclipse coming up. I was saying she put in her notice at work a little bit ago and she is a subordinate, right? She’s not the manager so that would fit in there, too. And the 12th house, should I just keep my distance for a while? Is that what we’re saying?
LS: Not necessarily. I mean, you also said that both of you don’t have new jobs lined up yet, right? So that can be some of the taking time out of the 12th house.
Joseph: Yes, yes. And that is what it feels like with that whole dynamic. But you were also talking about the three-month cycle between it. Well, three months is when we’ll be there. It’s October-ish, right? Somewhere in that neighborhood. I’m not counting properly. But would be in that cycle. I thought that what was interesting with the correlation between what it’s doing with my houses and also with hers. And in terms of cycles completing, her daughter’s leaving for college so it’ll just be us, which will be interesting.
CB: What’s her rising sign again?
Joseph: Hers? It’s Leo.
CB: Okay, Leo rising. It looked like this ish, so the lunar eclipse is falling in her sixth house. Okay. And she’s quitting her job? Okay. That’s like just very literal. Again, yeah, the idea of like a lunar eclipse, which is when the Sun and Moon are opposite to each other and so there’s a culmination and a completion or a closing down of one chapter of a person’s life, and she’s literally quitting her job. How long has she been working that job?
Joseph: 11 years.
CB: Okay. So that’s a huge chapter of her life ending. Additionally, the other theme that you’re bringing up is that she’s going from playing a support role and being a subordinate to suddenly owning her own business, essentially.
Joseph: Yeah, basically, yeah, we still have ours going. It was interesting too and I thought I’d point this out because of what you’re just saying that sometimes we get stuck on it has to be that day, right? But it’s the start of a longer cycle, so she put in her notice, but she’s not quitting on the… You know what I mean? Her last day will be at the end of September, but the notice is in so that cycle has started and it’s going to start playing through, so it’s interesting.
LS: Yeah, exactly.
CB: That’s brilliant. Thank you.
LS: Yeah, great example. Thank you. And that reminded me a little bit of one more topic of the 12th since we have a lot of more bummer topics with the sixth and 12th is that one of the most positive manifestations of the 12th house in addition, I touched on it with the ashram meditation center going off proactively to have time alone, but it can also be some metaphysical topics, contemplative topics or mystical things that usually is only if your 12th house is particularly good, like it is a particularly well-conditioned 12th house, but those can be some of the more positive 12th house topics too that could conceivably come up when there’s activity there.
CB: Yeah, like my favorite 12th house example is Galileo was condemned by the church and forced to be under house arrest for the later part of his life, but that’s when he wrote some of his most famous and influential works while he was under house arrest, so he’s like imprisoned in the 12th house.
LS: Right. And some people can do more positive things with seclusion. It doesn’t always have to be just like a dead end. Yeah.
CB: Yeah, Joy, you had one?
Joy: Yeah. And that one’s just [unintelligible 01:51:41.18] So it’s been fun to follow along with all of these this whole time. And I didn’t think I was like I certainly don’t have a sixth, 12th because I don’t have any planets in neither one of them. And if you use quadrant houses, I think they’re intercepted. But the signs are intercepted. However, I looked back and in 1991, I was in a 12th house profection year. And I graduated from college, moved out to Colorado with no job. And I knew my sister out here, that’s the only reason I came out here. And met somebody that I both dated him and he became a spiritual teacher for me and he taught me tarot, which I had not studied previously. And he lived in this dome in the mountains and moved me out into the dome with him. And I mean, there was no telephone so I was very isolated. And at the same time, I was studying a lot of spirituality. And we would go into town quite a bit. In fact, I worked and stuff like that. But I was watching the dates here and I don’t know the exact dates that any of this happened, but it looks like as soon as those… And that’s when the nodes were in Gemini and Sagittarius. Gemini is my 12th house. And it looks like the entire time the nodes were in those houses is when I was working with this person. And as soon as the nodes moved out, is about when I was like, why am I here? And I suddenly said I’m moving back into town, this is absurd. And so, yeah, it was very interesting.
LS: Yeah, that’s a great example.
CB: Well, that’s brilliant because that was a process that was almost necessary because it’s what brought you out here where you then subsequently stayed for a long time now.
Joy: Right, yeah. So yeah, it made a big difference that way, too. But to come out here and then immediately go into this isolation of being out to study spirituality so yeah, some really good 12 house things. Yeah.
LS: Yeah, you had two of them there. All right, that’s great. Thank you. Yeah, that’s a great example. And that’s like a great example to have just that sometimes it’s not like the most extreme examples of isolation or solitude where you’re in an institution or something. I’ve actually seen that pretty often where people who are like just temporarily living in a more isolated place, whether that’s in the mountains or on islands, I’ve seen a lot with the 12th house. Somewhere where it’s just not easy to get around to the mainstream of society.
CB: Yeah, if the 11th house is like being immersed in like friends and groups and people, the 12th house is like the opposite and being on your own and learning how to be okay with that in some instances. Yeah. All right. Do you have one? Okay.
Unknown Speaker: [unintelligible 01:54:52.07] And part of the reason I’m bringing this one up, I think it’s a great example is I’m really trying to find that work rest balance. And part of it is that my Sun has obviously been opposed by all this Saturn-Pluto stuff too just for the last year or two. And it’s just really intriguing to me, like my prior career, I worked a lot with reiki energy healings and metaphysical things and I know how to rest and relax, but I’m in a really stressful career where I have to do so much and it’s project management and it’s massive and team based and etc. But I’m just constantly trying to figure out that balance. And Uranus is about to go into my 10th house, so I’m just bracing myself like, am I going to lose this job? Because it is tough and it’s hard to find the other side, right?
CB: Yeah. And that would make even more sense or be more important for you if you have a Leo rising so that the Sun is like the ruler of your Ascendant and it’s in the 12th house. So, you get even more of those topics about vitality, both physical and mental vitality, as well as your overall life direction or life focus with the ruler of the Ascendant being there in the 12th.
LS: Yeah. And it’s also doubling up as well with the sixth house being Capricorn in particular, the sixth house would always be like your daily work, your job and what you’re doing every day. But it being in Capricorn, that makes so much sense that you’re doing that kind of really responsible team leading thing. But then yeah, you do have the polarity of how do you take time off from that.
Unknown Speaker: Yeah. And literally this week, I had to design a spreadsheet of us handing off our various tasks and we manage a course for 700 students and the task list was like 1500 lines long. It was like so so crazy. When you map it out, it’s really crazy.
CB: So it’s just become even more pronounced in terms of needing to find balance between those two extremes and being pulled in those two directions. All right. Brilliant. Well, I think that’s a good example to close down with then. Is there anything else as we’re wrapping on?
LS: Not that I can think of.
CB: All right. Well, I hope that this has been interesting and useful for people. And thanks, everybody, for coming today to this meeting of the Denver Astrology Group. This is like the type of thing that we’ve always wanted to do in terms of doing workshops like this and working through and by having this dialogue with each of you, it’s like all of us are learning something and it feels like we’re building something and developing something here, which feels really good and really useful. I hope everybody gained something from it. We’re going to do more meetings like this in the future because there’s tons of other techniques like this that we could then layer on top of this in order to get more and more detail and clarity when we’re looking at birth charts and trying to time events in people’s lives. We’ll be back again doing this here again before too long.
LS: Yeah, second Saturday of next month.
CB: Yeah, second Saturday each month here at the Mercury Cafe, except next month, we’ll be here meeting at noon on the second Saturday with the topic to be announced. And with Saturn stuff, there’s a lot of people that mentioned Saturn stuff and I did an episode of The Astrology Podcast on Saturn returns at one point that some people might want to check out if you’re going through your Saturn return in Capricorn. I forget what episode it was, but just search for theastrologypodcast.com Saturn returns. All right, I think that’s it. Thanks everyone for coming today.
LS: Yeah, thank you.
CB: Okay. Wow, that was a great episode of The Astrology Podcast that we did not just record the introduction to a few seconds ago.
LS: Right, exactly.
CB: Exactly. Yeah, I think we all learned a lot during that meeting. It was fun, as I said, talking and having that dialogue because part of what we were trying to demonstrate there was not just hearing stories about stuff, but also part of the process of what an astrological consultation is like is very much that like dialogue process and that back and forth for the reasons that we talked about for a little bit there.
LS: Right. Yeah, we did go over that. So hopefully, you’ve already heard that. But yeah, I mean, it is very much like a back-and-forth process of drawing out specifics from the generalities of the… Why are you laughing?
CB: I’m just laughing at the introduction.
LS: Yeah, so just drawing out specifics from the person’s life that are based on the astrological archetypes that you do bring in as the astrologer. So yeah, and it’s always interesting no matter what even if you’ve heard lots of examples before, I feel like.
CB: Yeah. But your goal is to try to get to explain the archetype. It’s like you explain the archetype, you explain the few possible manifestations and that’s like how has that worked for you or does any of that resonate with you. And then oftentimes, they’ll start talking about their story and showing how it resonates with them and you’ll hear more clearly and then you’ll be able to feed that back into their chart to clarify things or specify even further. And there’s like this back-and-forth process that leads to greater clarity and understanding on both the astrologer and the client’s part. Yeah. After that meeting, that was like a big day of organizing that so we went and had dinner afterwards and we were talking and of course, as soon as we left the meeting, we started remembering other eclipse examples from different houses in our life or in different family members or clients or friends lives that we totally wish that we had included.
LS: Yeah, which always happens that way.
CB: Yeah. Why don’t we go through a few of them really quickly? This is already like a two plus hour video and I don’t want to get hate mail for doing another three-hour episode.
LS: Right, it will be short of three hours. Yeah. Well, I mean, the ninth house example that I used actually for myself in the meeting, I actually remembered later that we talked about the polarity of how two opposite houses will always be activated around the same time because they come in pairs. And so, while my example was largely a ninth house thing, I was overseas and so forth and it involves some religious groups. I actually remembered later I was like, wait, I was there with my sister and that was the third house piece and I totally forgot to say that during the meeting.
CB: Right, so you’re traveling abroad in a foreign country which was like the ninth house eclipse you’re having, but then it was bouncing back and forth between the ninth and the third and you’re traveling with your sister?
LS: Right, exactly. And that was just notable because we were the only ones there together who knew each other and we didn’t know anyone else there.
CB: Right. And then this was also like a major turning point in your life for other unrelated reasons. Yeah. All right. That’s one of the examples you remembered. I remembered a fourth house example. And this is a funny example because at one point, we mentioned the whole sign house thing where it was one of the first instances where you’re like, okay, that was a good argument for whole sign houses when it was falling in my sixth house by quadrant, but my seventh house by whole sign. I had a similar experience though when I was first wrestling with the whole sign house issue way back in 2004. At the end of 2004, I was thinking about moving to Seattle to be closer to Kepler College, which I had already started attending but I was flying back and forth between Kepler and Denver. And I thought I was going to move to Seattle one month when I saw there was going to be like a New Moon in my fourth quadrant house, but then I ended up moving a month earlier than expected, and this eclipse happened. I remember standing outside and watching the eclipse and it was an eclipse in Taurus, which is my fourth whole sign house and I ended up realizing around that time. That was one of the first instances because it should have been in my third quadrant house because it was like way earlier than the IC, but because it fell in the fourth sign relative to my Ascendant it was in my fourth whole sign house and I relocated and moved away from my home state for the first time in my life, yeah, in order to live in Seattle. And that actually started a whole series of events where less than a year after that, I ended up moving from Seattle to Maryland to study at Project Hindsight and that was a whole other like two-year odyssey. So basically, an eclipse fell in my fourth whole sign house and I had a major move to a different part of the country that ended up precipitated a whole series of events over the course of the next few years. That’s pretty good one. Do you have another one to match?
LS: Yeah. Well, yeah, I did actually. I got hired for a new job that I really wanted and I was trying to find. I think they must have given me a phone call to tell me I got the job. But in any case, I got an email the very next day after the eclipse in my second house of income and so I’d just gotten hired for this new job and all I can find is just the email from my old boss saying like, here’s your start dates. So, I must have been hired within 24 hours the eclipse in my second.
CB: Okay. So, an eclipse in your second house of finances and just like your livelihood, and you got a new job?
LS: I got a new job that was like a job that I wanted. Yeah.
CB: Okay, that’s pretty good.
LS: Yeah, I thought so.
CB: Let’s see other ones I wrote down. I mean, I had one major one. I don’t want to go into and dwell in too much, but it’s worth mentioning because it’s one of the major life stories of my history with eclipses that I have a long history of just noting things when important things happen in my life, but one of them was I had that eclipse in Taurus in my fourth house and I moved to Seattle and then I moved to Project Hindsight and I lived there for two years. And at the end of that, there was a shift where the eclipses shifted into my eighth house and there was an eclipse in Virgo because I have Aquarius rising and there was an eclipse in Virgo in the eighth house of like mortality and death and my only sibling, my sister, passed away in a car accident. So, on the one hand, I had that experience of like a mortality in my life, but my sister also had Aquarius rising, which meant that that eclipse was also taking place in her eighth house, but she was the one of course that passed away. Sometimes it’s having the experience of the death in your life or in your family that affects you and other times it can be even something related to yourself or your own mortality or realizations related to it. And then tied in with that, of course, was our mother had Taurus rising so when an eclipse took place in her in Virgo in that same sign, it was taking place in her fifth house of children. In that way, you can see how the eclipses were reflected in all three of our lives in terms of our family unit.
LS: Yeah, that’s really striking.
CB: And then that eclipse series eventually kept shifting and kept clicking forward and eventually shifted not long after that about a year after that into Aquarius and Leo and so then the next one, of course, was the eclipse in Leo that you mentioned during the meeting in my seventh house and then as a result of moving back home to Denver to support my mom after my sister passed away. Because I came back and did that, I founded the Denver Astrology Group and then met you at the Denver Astrology Group and started like a major relationship. Yeah, you could say eclipses are a pretty big deal in my life for whatever reason. Yeah, there’s probably some reasons we have to look into that. You got any more examples to get a positive example to not end this on a downer?
LS: Well, I mean, it’s a lighter eighth house matter. I don’t know, it’s not positive. But just to reassure you all that if you have an eclipse coming up in your eighth house, it won’t necessarily have to do with mortality only, that is only one topic of the eighth house. I actually was just scanning back quickly through the dates of the past eclipses and I noticed that with the eclipses one of the times when they were happening in my eighth house was when I had some major credit card issues right after college or somewhere around that time and they were hounding me. And I was a young adult and I was really upset like they were being so mean as credit collectors are, and I think my parents helped me pay it off because I had medical debt. And I was like, why don’t you understand? And then I closed my credit card and swore to never have a credit card again, which hasn’t actually held. But for a very long time, I didn’t have a credit card after that. Anyway, it was like an ending and also like a momentous event time period for eighth house matters of like credit and like debt, which is an eighth house thing.
CB: That’s pretty good. All right. Well, I’m struggling to think of any other positive examples so maybe we’ll call it a day in terms of throwing additional chart examples at the end of this.
LS: Yeah. I mean, and hopefully, if you have watched through the entire video, you will have seen a lot of examples.
CB: And that’s the other thing we meant to say. We hope that people that are watching or listening to this episode of the podcast that if you can think of or find any good eclipse examples, either in terms of the current set of eclipses that are taking place in Cancer and Capricorn or in terms of especially past eclipses that have occurred in your life and chronology, if you notice any major great examples, then we hope that you’ll share them with us by posting your example in the comment section, either below this video if you’re watching the video version on YouTube or in the comment section on The Astrology Podcast website for the audio version. And hopefully, we could crowdsource some additional research into eclipses just based on hearing what sort of experience listeners have had.
LS: Yeah, yeah. If you notice any good ones, yeah, definitely write comments about it.
CB: Definitely. All right. And finally, the last thing that we forgot to mention because I always forget to mention at the end and then somebody came up to me and they’re like, “Hey, where can I learn more about this approach to astrology that you guys are demonstrating? Do you teach a course or class or anything?” And then I remember immediately that I forgot to mention that I wrote a book. I wrote a book titled Hellenistic Astrology: The Study of Fate and Fortune, which is available in fine bookstores everywhere. By that, I mean, primarily Amazon. I’d recommend checking out my book if you want to learn this approach to astrology that we both more or less demonstrate. What do you think? You like the book?
LS: Yeah, it was great.
CB: Good book?
LS: Yeah, two thumbs.
CB: Leisa, the eclipse wizard endorsed. Leisa likes the book. We talked about whole sign houses, aspects and it basically takes you from the basics of astrology all the way through intermediate and advanced techniques, has a chapter on profections which is that technique I mentioned briefly earlier for determining if eclipses are really going to be activated for you in that year. I also teach an online course on Hellenistic astrology and on ancient astrology which has over 100 hours of video lectures and instructional lectures that give you the techniques just like the ones that we talked about in this episode. That is available at theastrologyschool.com, which is where I teach my online courses on different approaches to astrology. I’m actually raising the price on my courses later this month, and a lot of people are signing up now in order to get in before the cutoff date which is the end of July. If you’re interested in getting a discount on the course, you might want to sign up now and it comes with a free copy of the book. Otherwise, they’re still going to be reasonably priced after that, but you’ll just get in at a discount if you sign up before the end of July. Cool. Other than that, so the Denver Astrology Group.
LS: Denver Astrology Group, if you are in Denver, come check us out second Saturday of every month at the Mercury Cafe.
CB: Yeah. If you don’t have or if you’re not familiar if there may be a local astrology group in your area, search on Meetup, do a Google Search for the name of your city and astrology group or astrology organization, you might find a local astrology group. If there’s not one, start one and just copy our model. Just rip off our model, we don’t really care, and start a group in your area and then maybe you can do or lead discussions like that and that will help build an astrological community. That’s what I did when I moved back to Denver in 2008 so it’s possible. Denver Astrology Group, and then finally Patreon. Thank you all the patrons who support the podcast and make this possible with the studio, as well as the recording equipment. We were able to record this meeting of the Denver Astrology Group, a lot of that’s new stuff that I’ve just been able to acquire over the past few years as a result of the patrons who support the podcast and just make all of this possible. So thank you. If you’re interested in supporting the podcast and getting access the new episodes, getting bonus episodes or secret private casual astrology podcast that Leisa and I record and put out from time to time where we… What do we talk about?
LS: We talk about whatever’s going on in the astro world or either astrologically speaking or community speaking.
CB: Yeah, we talked about astrology conferences and ephemeris gatekeeping recently and other fun topics like that, as well as our electional astrology podcast where we put out like four or five auspicious dates over the course of the next month, and so on and so forth. You can find out more information about that at theastrologypodcast.com/subscribe and just sign up to become a patron to our page on Patreon, and you’ll get access to all that stuff immediately. All right, I think that’s it for this episode. We did it. We did not record another three-hour episode, developing restraint. I didn’t even know the word. I just learned it recently. All right. Thanks everyone for listening to this episode. Thanks to everyone who came to the meeting today, and we look forward to seeing your comments about eclipses and hearing more eclipse stories. And good luck with the upcoming Capricorn eclipse because we did one of them. We did the Cancer one and then we got Capricorn coming up. Good luck to all of you and we’ll see you on the other side.
LS: All right, see you next time.
CB: All right.