The Astrology Podcast
Transcript of Episode 150, titled:
Astrology Forecast for April 2018
With Chris Brennan and guests Austin Coppock and Kelly Surtees
Episode originally released on March 31, 2018
Original episode URL:
https://theastrologypodcast.com/2018/03/31/astrology-forecast-for-april-of-2018/
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Note: This is a transcript of a spoken word podcast. If possible, we encourage you to listen to the audio or video version, since they include inflections that may not translate well when written out. Our transcripts are created by human transcribers, and the text may contain errors and differences from the spoken audio. If you find any errors then please send them to us by email: theastrologypodcast@gmail.com
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Transcribed by Andrea Johnson
Transcription released November 14th, 2025
Copyright © 2025 TheAstrologyPodcast.com
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CHRIS BRENNAN: Hi, my name is Chris Brennan, and you’re listening to The Astrology Podcast. This episode was recorded on Thursday, March 29, 2018, starting just after 3:13 PM in Denver, Colorado, and this is the 150th episode of the show. For more information about how to subscribe to the podcast and help support the production of future episodes by becoming a patron, please visit theastrologypodcast.com/subscribe. In this episode, I’m gonna be talking with Austin Coppock and Kelly Surtees about the astrological forecast for April of 2018. Hey, guys, welcome back.
AUSTIN COPPOCK: Hey, Chris.
KELLY SURTEES: Hey, guys.
CB: Hey. So it’s been a month since our last episode. And I’m excited to talk about the next month, cuz I think we’ve got a dynamic—and one of the things is a lot of the electional charts are better. Cuz I think—as you noted to me in private, Austin—we’ve got a bunch of planets going into their domiciles and exaltations next month, which is actually kind of unique, right?
AC: Oh, yeah. Yeah, there are some ‘jewels’ scattered amidst some very difficult configurations.
CB: Okay. Brilliant. Well, we will get to that later in the episode. So, first, we’re gonna do some news and announcements, we’ve got some giveaways—some book giveaways to give out, as well as an astrological magazine—and a little bit of pre-forecast discussion topics, and then eventually we’ll get to the actual astrological forecast for April and the auspicious electional charts that were found by Leisa Schaim for us for this month. So I’ll put timestamps, both on the description page for this episode, on the podcast website, as well as below in the description for the YouTube video, if you’re watching the video version of this episode, just in case you want to jump around or skip forward to the forecast or what have you. But otherwise let’s do some news and announcements. So, first, Kelly, you just got back from NORWAC, the Northwest Astrological Conference, in Seattle, right?
KS: I did, I did. It was last weekend, I guess. And it was amazing, as all NORWAC conferences seem to be. Just a really great group of people. I realized I hadn’t been to a conference in 18 months. So I was kind of getting back into my ‘conference’ groove and just catching up with everyone. So, you know, a huge thanks to Laura Nalbandian and her family who put on such a wonderful show. The diversity scholarship—that I think had been organized for NORWAC in partnership with Samuel Reynolds—was phenomenal. So there were a number of diversity scholarship winners there. And I hung out with three of the winners—and they were just amazing people—but there was also a huge amount of people there at that conference that were at their first astrology conference. So that was kind of nice, to get a sense of people coming into the astrology community, and then of course seeing people like Tony Howard, who I did a lot of work with, Mark Jones, who’s one of my conference buddies, and even Lynn Bell and Rob Hand and what have you. It was just amazing to see everyone. So, yeah, I had a really good time. Highly recommend the recordings if you couldn’t make it.
CB: Brilliant. And that’s funny—NORWAC is an annual conference. It’s happened every year, no matter what, for like the last 30 years. And so, what usually happens during a year where there’s like a huge mega-conference—like a UAC, a United Astrology Conference, which is happening in May—NORWAC is usually pushed to be a little bit earlier in the year or a little bit later, since it’s usually otherwise in May, when UAC is taking place. And usually it’s a lot smaller, cuz more people are going to UAC. But this year I heard it wasn’t even small. It was like, if anything, almost bigger than a normal-sized NORWAC conference.
KS: Yeah. I mean, it definitely didn’t feel like a smaller version of NORWAC, which is often the case with like NORWAC and the Pacific Northwest, and then the SOTA Conference—which is in Buffalo, and that’s another annual conference—and they do tend to have less attendees in a UAC year. But certainly NORWAC did not have that. It was still big and vibrant and ‘buzz-y’. I mean, there’s a huge astrological community in that kind of Pacific Northwest area. And many of those people, I guess, won’t make the trip across to Chicago, so they were still happy to come out to NORWAC. So, yeah.
CB: Right. And there were a lot of new people there, where that was literally their first astrology conference ever.
KS: Totally, like the diversity scholarship crew, but there was just a bunch of people who were new. And there was a huge amount of podcast listeners there as well, which was lovely. And apparently, Chris, our ‘secondary progressions’ episode has been a big hit with people, so that was great.
CB: Yeah, that’s what I heard. I’ve got a lot of feedback about that episode. It’s like one of people’s favorites in quite a while.
KS: Yeah. So I definitely wanted to tell you guys to prepare yourselves for people to come up and say things like, “Oh, my God, we go on hikes together all the time,” because they’re listening to the shows while they’re out and about in their everyday lives. So, yeah, it’s just fun to see people in person. And I had three speeches or talks to give. I did one of the keynote presentations on Friday—which was a huge thing, so I was happy to get that done—and then two talks, one on Saturday and one on Sunday. So it’s definitely, you know, a steady pace. It feels a little bit like that ‘Mars-Saturn’ vibe, which I know we’re gonna talk a lot about for April, which was working, a little bit of play, but working.
CB: Yeah, that sounds like a really busy conference for you. That was your first keynote to basically almost the entire conference, right?
KS: Yeah. Yeah, that was definitely taking things to a new level. It was about 230 people that I gave the keynote to. So I had a lot of nerves before, but I was pretty happy with how it went off, and I enjoyed it more than I thought I would. So, yeah, I feel like I’ve got a good sense of it and will be able to just keep improving with those kinds of things in the future.
CB: Awesome. That is so exciting. So you’re the first of, I think, the three of us to do a keynote. Although, Austin, a few years ago, you spoke at a tarot conference here in Denver. You did something close to that where it seemed like you were addressing the entire audience, weren’t you?
AC: It wasn’t a keynote. It was well-attended.
CB: Yeah.
AC: I wasn’t given special priority.
CB: Okay. Well, Kelly, then you’re the first of the three of us to give a keynote, but hopefully not the last. And maybe you can—
KS: I don’t think so. I won’t be.
CB: —give us some tips—
KS: For sure.
CB: —when it’s our time.
KS: Lots of practice time talking to the mirror. But, Chris, speaking of firsts, you’re gonna be doing a post-conference workshop at UAC, aren’t you? That’s a huge honor.
CB: Yeah, I got a post-conference workshop at UAC, and so far it’s filling up pretty well. I’m actually really excited about it. I did a test-run of it last month in Denver. It’s always risky, cuz I never usually liked to do this, but I just took questions, or took charts from the audience. Cuz I’m trying to develop and get a few more example charts for this lecture just to pad it out a little bit as a workshop. And I got up and I gave the lecture, which was on using the advanced method of profections, where you profect from different houses or different planets depending on what topics you want to study in a given year. So it’s relatively straightforward if you know the technique, but if you don’t know the technique sometimes people can find it a little bit more challenging to learn than you would think. But it really comes alive when you have a person in front of you. And I asked people, “Tell me about a standout year in your life, when there was a particular event that happened that was particularly good in one area of your life, but there was an event that was particularly bad or negative or difficult in another area of your life.” And we did a few example charts of that and some people had some really amazing examples, and it really brought the technique out in a very vivid way. So I’m hoping to recreate that in a more extended form at this workshop at UAC towards the end of the conference.
KS: Fantastic.
AC: So—
KS: Oh, just quickly, and then, Austin, you go. I actually heard that the workshop was sold out, Chris. It may not be completely. I don’t know if you have heard the same thing.
CB: I don’t know. I mean, we’ll have to get a bigger room, I mean, if that’s the case.
KS: But also, I know someone who has a ticket to your workshop that can’t make it. So if somebody’s trying to get a ticket, and it is sold out, I have a contact. So just get in touch with me, yeah.
CB: Okay. Yeah, we’ll have to look into it. And, Austin, you—
KS: Sorry, Austin, what were you gonna say?
CB: You have a major development that’s coming up for UAC.
KS: Yes!
CB: Can you talk about that yet? Or can we mention that? Or can we just say there may be something in the works?
AC: Yeah, I think I can talk about that. But before I do that—
KS: Yeah.
AC: —just one comment on profecting from multiple points within the chart. So in my Jyotish studies, Vedic astrology, I discovered that profections are part of the arsenal, and they profect from the rising Sun and Moon. And the way that the information is often displayed is a triple wheel, and it’s really useful to look at it all at once. I found that extremely helpful. I think you should probably steal that.
CB: Yeah, I’d like to see that.
AC: And there’s a particular name for that wheel—the ‘something’ chakra. Anyway, I was like, “Yes, that’s the way to do it.”
CB: Yeah, and that’s something we’re gonna focus on. Even though profections from the ascendant is like the most important and is where you start—and that’s the one I always do—I still always find that if there’s something that happens in the life, and you can’t account for it—like there’s some event that happens—every time I then profect from the sect light, from the Sun in a day chart or the Moon in a night chart, it always shows up. So I always have had this recurring theme of needing to pay more attention to those other profections—especially from the sect light—and oftentimes when I don’t, I miss some crucial piece of information.
AC: Yeah. You know, as far as that goes, I, for a number of years, noticed that there was almost this ‘profection’ lag where I would be oriented towards one thing—like, let’s say, 3rd house topics—but it wouldn’t quite fully manifest until the year after. And then when I’ve noticed that my Moon is in the 12th—my profecting from the Moon will always be one year behind my profecting from the ascendant—and the Moon in my chart is the ‘lord of the ascendant’, so it has extra oomph, that all clicked into place. It’s sort of like orienting one year and then everything catches up the next year materially, which is what we look for when we profect from the Moon, right? More material, fortune-based things.
CB: Yeah.
AC: But as far as my big news, the anthology of essays on astrological magic that I’ve been co-editing with Three Hands Press for a while—which was put on hiatus for most of the last year—has surged back to life. There will be a public announcement, as well as a public publication date, within the next week. And, fingers crossed, I’ll be able to walk into UAC with a stack of books.
CB: Awesome. That would be amazing. And maybe do a book signing or something like that?
AC: Yeah, that would be well. Many of the contributors are gonna be there: Demetra George, Lee Lehman, Ben Dykes, myself, etc., etc.
CB: Wow. That is huge. That’s gonna be a big, landmark publication, because it seems like there’s been a lot of increasing interest in traditional astrology over the past 10 years. And I’ve also seen from a distance—cuz I’m not that involved in it—an increase, it seems, in interest in the magical and occult community, and this seems like the first time where there’s been a serious attempt to do a sort of crossover volume between those two.
AC: Yeah, and that was absolutely my intention. You know, there’s been some good work done, especially by Christopher Warnock, on this material. I would say that the conversation wouldn’t be at this point without the work he’s done, but he’s a specialist in a particular point in the timeline. And one of the things I’m really happy about is that the essays range up and down the timeline from the Hellenistic up through the early modern, and even the actual contemporary. Collectively, the essays are both, how shall we say, sketching the timeline and checking in at different points and looking at similarities and differences. I’m very, very happy with all of the writers’ contributions.
CB: Awesome. That should be great.
KS: That sounds amazing, Austin. So excited to get a copy.
AC: It’ll be wonderful to hold it.
KS: Yeah, to have it when the editing work is done, right?
CB: Yeah, definitely. And speaking of UAC, that brings me to the other big announcement. I was actually able to secure a large room. So we’re actually gonna do a meetup. We’re definitely gonna do a meet-and-greet with podcast listeners for The Astrology Podcast at the United Astrology Conference in Chicago in May. Because we’re able to get a big enough room, we’re talking about—Austin and Kelly and I are talking about doing a live recording of a podcast episode in front of the audience, and a Q&A discussion to take some questions and just have a little discussion in addition to the meetup. So the date for this—this is the first time I’ve gotten together the details, so I wanted to let people know that it’s gonna take place on Saturday, May 26, 2018, starting at 7:00 PM until about 8:30 PM at the hotel that UAC is taking place in, in a room called the Halsted Foyer, on the fourth floor. Yeah, so I’m really excited about it. We’re still in the process of putting together what it will be about and what we’re gonna do exactly. But either way it’s gonna be fun, and it’ll be nice for people like me and Austin and Kelly to be able to meet podcast listeners. But also, since I know this is gonna be a lot of people’s first conference—who listen to the podcast or are new to the astrological community—I wanted to have a place where other people who listen to the podcast could meet each other and connect and start building connections and friendships as well. Because that’s part of what these conferences are about, and I wanted to make sure there was a place where people can automatically have something in common if all of you generally listen to the podcast. Yeah, so that’s the details surrounding that.
KS: That’s gonna be amazing.
CB: Yeah, I’m really excited. I mean, I’m a little nervous. I’ve never organized something like that before, and I don’t know how many people are gonna come. I’m actually taking out an ad. So there’s gonna be an insert about this event in everybody’s tote bag, which is like everybody that attends the conference. I’m hoping that not everybody attends. But the room can apparently hold at least 400 people, so we’ll see what happens.
KS: Chris, it’s a wonderful achievement for you to be able to host something like this. Cuz I think it’s really a mark of the success of this podcast, which is absolutely your baby and has grown all through your own efforts. So I’m just really excited for you that you are at this stage with your journey with it.
CB: Yeah, I’m excited. And you guys have been a big part of that just in terms of doing these monthly forecast episodes. And I know that’s everyone’s favorite and this is the one that everyone makes sure that they tune in for just about every month.
AC: Well, it’s not my favorite. These are the only ones I don’t listen to.
CB: Okay. This month was pretty good, the ‘synchronicity’ episode. I was really happy with how that went with Keiron Le Grice. It was a landmark episode.
AC: Yeah, I’m about halfway in right now.
CB: Okay, good. Yeah, and then next month I’m already in the process of putting things together. Anyway, we should move onto other news and announcements. Kelly, do you have any news or announcements?
KS: Two quick ones. This weekend I’m giving an intro to electional astrology webinar through Astrology University. So you can sign up now online for that. If you can’t make it live, you’ll still get the video recording. And I will be in Sydney late April/early May, and I’m doing a day of teaching on Friday, May 4 in Sydney. So details about exactly what I’ll be teaching will be up on my website next week. But for anybody who is in Australia or in Sydney and wants to join, just mark that date, but that’s it for me.
CB: Awesome, okay. And, Austin, do you have anything going on in the next month?
AC: Yeah, my 2018 run of the fundamentals of astrology begins in April. So that’s an eight-month, eight-module course. And people can join up for the whole thing, or if they just need to polish their skills or technical understanding on one particular topic, they can drop in. You know, you might be fine with planets, but maybe you want to jump in on aspects. And so, that’s exciting. I don’t know, I think this is like the fourth year in a row, and I’m very happy with the sequencing of the material at this point. So that begins in April. And then I’m also teaching a month-long class on the theory and practice behind making astrological talismans. I touched on this in an earlier class—which was an introduction to planetary magic—but there’s so many details that come into play when you’re making talismans, so I thought it deserved its own four-week course.
CB: All right. Brilliant.
KS: That sounds great.
AC: Yeah. And that begins on April 8.
CB: Awesome. Cool. And, as for me, I’m getting ready for UAC and that’s taking up most of my focus, as well as doing the podcast. I am starting to put more effort in, and I’m gonna start producing more videos again at theastrologyschool.com. And I’m starting to blog there again, starting with a new article on the six best beginner astrology books, which I actually did a video on last fall, but it was like 30- or 40 minutes-long. And I’ve been meaning to write something a little bit more scannable and concise that people can just glance at and then immediately just get the important information from. So you can check that out, as well as some of my course offerings—like the Hellenistic astrology course—at theastrologyschool.com. All right, other things. The last ‘news and announcements’ thing—giveaways. So every month, I do a giveaway of a few books or a few things for patrons of The Astrology Podcast that support the podcast on the $5 or $10 tier. I’ve been waiting for it for a few months now, but Liz Greene’s books actually finally came. So Liz Greene’s two new books—covering the work of Carl Jung—showed up in the mail for me like a week or two ago, and I’m gonna give away two copies of volume one, which is titled Jung’s Studies in Astrology. So there’s the book. It’s a pretty much landmark publication. I’m only a little bit into it, but even just the table of contents is amazing, because she’s really going into that last missing piece that we couldn’t fully get into in the last two episodes that I did on Jung—basically the question of what sources was he drawing on, and what books was Jung himself reading that influenced his take on astrology. So that’s kind of what Liz Greene deals with for the most part, or that’s her main focus in these books, and I’m really excited about it. I’m also trying to see if I can land an interview with her. I don’t know if I’m gonna be able to pull that off, but I’ve already sent out some feelers to see if I can even get a hold of her contact information. If there’s any fans of the podcast that happen to know her personally, or could put in a good word, then please go ahead and do so. But, otherwise, yeah, I’m giving away two copies. I’ll announce the winners of that through my page on Patreon in a couple of days when I release the final version of this episode. So if you’re a patron already just pay attention there and you’ll get the announcement.
The other giveaway I’m doing is three copies of a new astrology e-magazine called Celestial Vibes that’s actually published by an astrologer from India named Aswin Balaji. Anyway, he sent me a copy of this, and I was actually pretty impressed. Let me do a screen-share really quickly for people that are watching the video version. This is an image of the front page. So it’s kind of a mixture of Indian astrology and Western astrology in this interesting sort of mix, but it’s an e-magazine, or it’s a new sort of magazine that you can receive in PDF format. The first issue has a tribute to the late Bill Levacy who was a notable Vedic astrologer, who passed away recently. It’s also got some interesting articles on a Vedic take on Albert Einstein’s chart. A friend of mine, Lars Panaro, has an interesting essay on the topic of the definition of Vedic astrology, and there’s some other interesting coverage as well. So the magazine is called Celestial Vibes, and you can find out more information about it—the website is theabverdict.com. So I’ll put a link to that website in the description page for this episode, and you can find out more information there. All right, last thing in terms of the pre-forecast discussion, one, this is actually the 150th episode of the show. So I didn’t set it up to be that way, but it just happens that this is one of those landmark episodes. It seems like it was just yesterday that we were celebrating the hundredth episode, and now we’re halfway to Episode 200. So thanks, you guys, for joining me today for that one.
AC: Yeah, congratulations.
CB: Yeah.
KS: Yeah, anytime, and go, Chris.
CB: Yeah, so it’s really still plugging along, and I’m gonna be expanding the podcast and doing some additional things here in the near future. The other piece of pre-forecast discussion is I noticed Time Magazine actually ran an article on Mercury retrograde recently. It actually happened like a week or two ago. It was published on March 22. So I guess that’s about a week ago now, the day that Mercury actually stationed retrograde, or around the day that Mercury stationed retrograde recently. Did you guys catch this?
KS: I didn’t catch it at the time, but I have seen it since. And it is quite amazing because there seemed to be all these profiles lately about astrology in mainstream media that are fairly thoughtful.
CB: Yeah. And that’s why I wanted to bring it up just because it seemed like another piece of coverage of astrology in a mainstream media publication. And although in December and January, when I did that episode, I was somewhat skeptical about this idea that media coverage was reflective of an actual growing trend of interest in astrology among the general public, I’m starting to come around, and I’m starting to really be more convinced that perhaps this is evidence that astrology is becoming more popular on some level, especially amongst younger, internet-savvy people, since that’s basically where they’re getting most of their information about astrology.
AC: Yeah. Just to add to that, a friend of mine who runs a podcast mentioned in an episode not too long ago—this is the Rune Soup Podcast—he was talking to people about having a ‘cycles’ view of history and looking at long cycles and your position within longer cycles. And although astrology’s not the only method that he’s looking at for timing cycles, he was encouraging people, he was like, “Listen, if you checked in with astrology 15 or 20 years ago and found it wanting, you might want to check in again.” I think that being inside of it, we maybe haven’t noticed how much better we’ve gotten in a sense. And that’s not a slight to the people who were leading members of the astrological community 20 years ago, it’s that we got to read for the first time many of the foundational texts in our art. And we’ve had a lot of people doing reconstructive work and translation work, and also, how shall we say, sitting with older techniques and newer understandings—or more contemporary understandings—and trying to reconcile those. You know, I think that as a whole, we’re putting out a lot of really good stuff. I feel like the technical bar for the astrology column is much higher than it was even 10 years ago. So I would congratulate us for doing a better job collectively—or not doing a better job. Cuz it’s not about people 20 years ago doing a bad job, it’s about us having access to more material and the internet and stuff.
CB: Yeah.
KS: That’s a really good point, Austin. Because we’ve all benefited from the work that has become available in the 20-25 years, which just didn’t exist before.
AC: It’s impossible.
KS: Impossible. And so, collectively, even the people that were working with astrology 20 or 25 years ago, they’re part of this movement, too, so we’ve all benefited.
AC: Yeah.
CB: Well, and I think a large part of the actual popularization of astrology is largely due to the internet and due to the ability of the internet—which I’ve a little bit underestimated at this point—and of social media and social networking sites to encourage the proliferation of astrological concepts that were not as mainstream even 10 or 20 years ago, like Mercury retrograde or the Saturn return. And those are really modern astrology concepts for the most part, but they’re actually getting out there and they’re penetrating into the public consciousness a lot more than I think they were even 10 years ago. And that’s the thing that’s giving me pause in realizing that something is going on here, and on some level astrology or higher levels of astrology are seeping into the public. And in some ways that might not be good. I mean, some astrologers might object and say the ‘Mercury retrograde’ thing is being overblown, and it’s taking some small piece of astrology and almost using it inappropriately or overextending it. But I’m sort of fine with that on some level, as long as some of those concepts are getting out there and then that discussion can take place.
AC: Yeah, well, that’s true. Whenever you have only a few little pieces of knowledge, you’re gonna tend to over-inflate those. But if we’re moving from just Sun signs to Sun signs and Mercury retrograde and Saturn return as far as the popular arsenal of concepts, that is three times more nuanced than just Sun signs.
CB: Yeah.
KS: Yeah. And that’s the big thing I’ve noticed over the years, just in my own personal career with astrology. I started teaching astrology nearly 15 years ago, like in the early days of the internet, and you would really have to do a lot of basic concept stuff with students. But I’m finding now that because of the internet and because of the proliferation of good quality basic astrology info that’s out in the world, the conversations that are being had amongst the astrological community in any format—the bar has been raised because more people have got that foundational information. So it definitely feels like with more of the basic stuff available, when we do get together or connect, we can instantly kind of start at a more substantial place, I guess.
CB: Yeah, definitely. And one of the things that’s funny—and I didn’t realize it was more of a phenomenon until recently—is that the idea of ‘being on cusp’ has somehow become a popular concept that people are aware of, to the extent that I’ve seen some astrologers getting really annoyed by this concept and like pushing back and saying, “There’s no such thing as a cusp,” or “You’re either one or the other.” There might be some general idea that is becoming common in the public that you can be both, or that being born close to the cusp—in terms of your Sun sign—might explain why you have trouble identifying with one or the other, that it might be both or something like that. An advanced astrological take might just be something like maybe a planet’s in both signs because you are so close to the cusp or something like that.
AC: Yeah. I mean, the ‘cusp’ thing has been around for a while. I think that was just a consequence of people only doing Sun signs, and the fact that because our calendar year is slightly off from the astronomical year, some years February 18 is Pisces and some years February 18 is Aquarius. And so, if people didn’t look at a chart, they were just like, “Oh, February 18, I guess that’s the cusp,” if you don’t have reference to the chart. And so, they were like, “Well, I don’t know. I guess I’m both.”
CB: Right.
AC: And people like being special.
CB: Yeah, that’s a good point as well. But it’s just interesting that that concept in and of itself—that people might be born on a cusp—is almost becoming more popular than it was previously, which is another surprising thing that I wasn’t paying attention to. Cuz I think part of my problem is I’m not paying attention to what’s happening on street-level, Sun sign astrology or popularized astrology blogs, I’m paying attention to other stuff, and that might be affecting my perception of whether astrology’s becoming more or less popular. You know, when I see astrology books not really being featured on bookstore shelves anymore that makes me think it’s declining, but then I’m not paying attention to some astrologer on Twitter or Instagram having like a million followers or something like that.
KS: I don’t know if I should say who this person is, but I met an astrologer at the conference this past weekend who has a year-long waitlist to get in to have a consult with them.
CB: Wow.
KS: And they work primarily with people under the age of 40. So people in their 20’s and 30’s. So, yeah, it’s interesting. It’s really interesting.
CB: Definitely. All right, well, we will revisit this topic again in the future, but I think that’s good for now. So I think that’s all the pre-show stuff, pre-forecast discussion.
KS: We have delayed getting to April as long as possible.
CB: We’ve put it off. We have good reason, cuz it starts off a little rough at the top of the month. But why don’t we jump into it at this point? So let’s start talking about the astrological forecast for April of 2018. So for the timestamp, for the future, we’re about 33 minutes in. I mean, April basically starts off with a bang right away on April 1, right?
KS: A bang? Yes.
AC: That’s not the noise.
KS: I’m like I want Austin’s analogy. Can I say one thing? Cuz then Austin’s gonna give us his beautiful images.
CB: Yeah.
KS: There’s two big Mars aspects for this month, and the first one is at the start of the month. Austin, go.
AC: Okay. So, yeah, April begins with the perfect conjunction of Mars and Saturn in Capricorn. And as we discussed last month, Mars and Saturn are both very powerful in Capricorn, and together they generate very challenging circumstances. Which is not necessarily to say horrible, although horrible is included. It can simply be having to get three times as much done during the given week than you planned to. After that week is over you will have accomplished that and that will be great. So that Mars-Saturn—Kelly, this might have been your analogy. Mars and Saturn, collectively, are the ‘brakes and the gas’; Mars being the ‘gas’, Saturn being the ‘brakes’. And when they’re joined there’s often a sense of hitting both at the same time and stressing out your vehicle intensively without going very fast. One of the things I’ve observed about the Mars-Saturn conjunction as it’s been applied is that people seem to be receiving massive workloads out of nowhere, or things get delayed and so now you have 80 hours of stuff to do this week. And that’s complicated by both the Sun and Mercury being in Aries, which is a Mars-ruled sign. And Mercury of course is retrograde. And so, we have Sun and Mercury in Mars-ruled signs, with Mars making this really intense conjunction to Saturn. So this is not the easiest set of circumstances. It’s also worth noting that the month begins right after the Full Moon in Libra at the end of March, which additionally highlights these configurations. I could go on. But, Kelly, do you have any—
KS: Yeah. I mean, I know we’ve spoken about this, Austin. And I think one of the things that stuck with me was when you and I were talking about the difference between the Mars-Jupiter together in Scorpio—which was December 2017-January 2018—and being busy, but feeling maybe really optimistic or hitting targets, and that busyness leading to those new heights of Jupiter, contrasted to now, which is Mars and Saturn together, and that sense of busyness or being ‘under the pump’, but it’s more of a slog. I mean, I was thinking about this earlier today—I was literally walking down a flight of stairs when this idea occurred to me—that, “Thank goodness that we know about this.” Because if I was thinking, “Okay, it’s a long weekend; it’s Easter in the Christian mainstream world; let’s take four days off and let’s go and eat some chocolate,” I’d be really disappointed, because I’m gonna be working through the weekend—cuz I’ve got a bunch of things going on—and I know I’m not the only person. But knowing that this aspect is happening at the start of April, basically I had just planned 10 days, plus and minus April 2, when Mars is exactly conjunct Saturn. It’s just, ‘have at it’. And I do have a massive mountain of work to kind of plow through. But I also think—as you were saying, Austin—it’s possible to do that. In that kind of ‘steady, consistent progress’ place it is possible to get through a lot now, but it won’t happen because you’re already released you’ve already done half of it. We call it ‘bum glue’ in the writer’s world, anything that will make you sit in the chair and do the work. For me, it’s usually 80% dark chocolate and a hot cup of tea just to stay in the chair and keep plowing through. So, yeah, this Mars-Saturn—there’s friction there, but there is the potential for productivity.
AC: Oh, yeah. I will have accomplished a great deal in two weeks.
KS: Yeah.
AC: However, I have to get there. I like the way that you contrasted the Mars-Jupiter with the Mars-Saturn. So my metaphor and experience of the Mars-Jupiter was being a goddamn freight train, and a freight train moves a lot of material but it does so on a track. Whereas what I feel like with this Mars-Saturn in Capricorn is being a bulldozer—
KS: Oh, yeah, that’s beautiful.
AC: —which is much slower. Instead of having a track cleared for it, a bulldozer actually has to plow, as you put it. It has to displace heavy material in order to move forward.
KS: Yeah. And I haven’t read all of your work on Facebook, Austin, because I’ve had to be working, but I’ve seen the beautiful images come through. Do you have a ‘sword in the stone’ image that you’ve been using, or something along those lines?
AC: My last column—which dealt with the equinox up until tomorrow—it’s actually the image of an ax splitting wood—
KS: Okay.
AC: —and the dominant metaphor was ‘hacking your way through the wilderness’. You know, the ax is a weapon, but the ax is also a tool.
KS: Yes.
AC: You need to be able to cut through the heavy brush and carve a path, right? That’s different than finding a path or just getting on track, like with a locomotive. This is much more bulldozing, hacking through heavy brush and maybe getting lost along the way. That’s part of the Mercury part of it.
KS: The Mercury retrograde. That’s beautiful.
AC: Yeah. It’s hard to carve a path. So you don’t want to chop in the wrong direction, cuz that’s gonna cost you a lot of work.
KS: It’s gonna cost you energy.
AC: Yeah, it’s about keeping up that pace. And even though the time period that was the subject of that column will be over by the time that this comes out, the next 10 days after that are not very dissimilar. The same themes apply.
KS: That sounds like a very ‘Australian’ thing which we call ‘bush bashing’. I mean, maybe you guys understand it. You’re out in the bush or the woods, and you’re not on the path. You are just kind of very ‘headstrong’ Mars—youthful kind of energy, I guess—just pushing your way through. And one thing we said in our pre-show chat was that even though this Mars-Saturn aspect peaks around the 2nd of April, it’s really in play right up until about the 8th of April, because we are gonna have the Moon come through and aspect both Mars and Saturn on the 7th and 8th of April. So that’s where we’re sort of saying it’s not just over on the day. We’re not gonna wake up on the 3rd of April and be like, “Oh, ding, ding, it’s done.” We’re gonna have that ‘fade-out’ energy, and in some ways it is gonna hang around for about a week or so.
CB: Right. And even Mercury, which is retrograde still, will retrograde back and run into them over those few days.
KS: Of course. Yeah, on the 4th and 5th.
CB: April 3rd or 4th. And then Mercury retrogrades back into Saturn around the same time, around the 5th.
KS: Yeah. I had forgotten about that component, yes.
AC: Yeah, I would say, the first 10 days of April—the first third of April, let’s say—are the peak of dynamics that will actually still be in place through the entire month and through the first portion of May. Because even though the intensity has decreased, simply having Mars and Saturn both in Capricorn generates that ‘bulldozer’ feel. It’s just that the first portion of April is the most exaggerated version of those dynamics.
CB: Right. And one of the things I like—in order to understand Mars-Saturn conjunction—is the notion, like in ancient times, like with Ptolemy and stuff, they would conceptualize Mars as being excessively fiery and Saturn as being excessively cold, and that was like the metaphor that was used in order to understand the function and the property of them. But when Ptolemy talks about each planet, he says the issue is not that they’re hot or cold, but the issue is that they tend to be excessively so; or they tend towards extremes.
KS: Extremism.
CB: And so, when you’re looking at a conjunction of Mars and Saturn, some of the issues that come out of that are, what are the issues that arise from having extreme versions of hot and cold coming together and fusing together, and what happens when those clash? You can also have some positive manifestations, and you basically look at the same metaphor in order to get the positive ones. But whenever I think about this I always think about this quote from Iamblichus—who was a 4th century, Neoplatonic philosopher—when he’s talking about the malefic nature of Mars and Saturn, or how they were traditionally categorized as malefics. To try to explain it like this, he says: “The emanation deriving from Saturn tends to pull things together.” So he says: “[They] tend to pull things together or make them cohere, while the emanation deriving from Mars tends to provoke motion in things. However, at the level of material things, the passive-generative receptacle receives one of these—Saturn as rigidity and coldness and the other as a degree of inflammation exceeding moderation.” So I really liked that notion of Saturn pulling things together and Mars almost like driving things apart or provoking them into motion, and that being almost like the underlying concept or the underlying archetype in some sense that some of these delineations are being derived from for Mars and Saturn.
AC: Yeah, I think that’s very nice, and I agree with that. I would also expand on one of the points you made just before this, which is that what defines a malefic traditionally is that it provokes states which are imbalanced. You know, Jupiter is considered to be ‘hot and moist’, but gently so, and the same with Venus being ‘cool and moist’. It’s a gentle nudge in that direction as opposed to an extreme situation. I would also add that, well, sometimes you get this quality of Mars and Saturn firing at the same time when they’re conjunct, and to a certain degree, heat and cold can cancel each other out. But you also have them alternating quickly, and it’s very destructive to alternate between extreme cold and extreme hot, right? For example, if you froze a piece of glass, and then poured hot water into it, it would probably shatter.
CB: Right. Moving too quickly from one state to the other. That’s a good metaphor then—the idea of moving too quickly from one extreme state to another and the brittleness or sense of being fragile that’s introduced in the process of being in that transitional state.
AC: Yeah. It also occurs to me if you start working out super hard without warming up or stretching at all, your rigidity and brittleness may result in a pulled muscle.
KS: A snap or a break.
AC: Yeah, a snap, a break, a tendon, whatever. And so, you know, all of this I think points us to a very simple course of action, which is to pay extra attention to balance. Which isn’t to say that you should be totally balanced during this time. My workload, and I know yours, Kelly, are such that a perfect, sustainable ‘Libran’ pace is simply not possible, but we can clip the more extreme edges out of an unbalanced time period, if that makes sense. Just so you know, some work towards balance rather than just going with the full madness.
KS: Yes. You guys made some beautiful points. I just wanted to throw a couple of comments in. I loved that quote that you read, Chris, so I feel like you might have to include the reference in the show notes.
CB: Yeah, well, you can find it in—
KS: Oh, shit! It’s in your book. Page number, please.
AC: That is a good one.
CB: Yeah, I lost the page number already.
KS: It’ll be if we look him up in the reference, at the back.
CB: Yeah, look up Iamblichus in my book.
KS: Which is actually ‘I-A-M’ for people who are—
AC: I-am-blichus.
KS: Isn’t it ‘I-A-M’?
CB: It is ‘I-A-M’, yeah.
KS: Yeah, okay, cool.
CB: Anyway, it’s in Hellenistic Astrology: The Study of Fate and Fortune, available in fine bookstores everywhere.
KS: Oh, my God!
AC: And on amazon.com.
CB: Right.
KS: Chris did not pay me to say that. I just thought you had one of his books there that you just read that out of. The provoking into motion—I wanted to just make a mention of how the general theme of Mars in Capricorn while Saturn is there is a provocative time. You know, we’re still understanding the larger theme of what Saturn in Capricorn is about, and I think this Mars-Saturn conjunction is sort of that turning point, pivotal energy about this is what you can do with this ‘Saturn in Capricorn’ energy if you want to apply it, or if we want to warm it up a little bit. Because of course Saturn is very cold and so is Capricorn. And the final little piece to add in is that we talked about the heat and the cold. And I’ve actually done that where I’ve baked something in a glass dish, and before it had cooled down properly, I ran cold water in it and it shattered. So it’s absolutely not good to go from extremes in heat and cold. And even if you get hypothermia, you have to warm up slowly. If you put hot water on hypothermia it makes it worse, so there’s definitely that.
CB: Or another analogy is like driving really fast and then—
KS: Hitting the brakes.
CB: —hitting the brakes suddenly or running into a wall. Like going from a very quick speed to zero can sometimes be harmful.
KS: Totally. I mean, you get whiplash. And then the other quality that we haven’t touched on is the extreme dryness of that Mars and Saturn in Capricorn. So the other piece to the qualities there—these are all ‘dry’ signs, and ‘dry’ is about separation. It’s what I describe as ‘healthy distance’ or ‘healthy detachment’. So in situations where people have had maybe a little too much Neptune or a little too much water, this ‘drying-out’ energy can help create some clarity. I’m not gonna promise it’s gonna be ‘happy’ clarity, but it will be this idea of getting clear about things and then being able to order things so that one thing tucks in nicely after the other. So there’s a little bit of that ‘dry’ energy, I think, here that we can work with productively potentially.
CB: Definitely. And this brings up kind of a meta issue from earlier this month about what we’re doing here. With Keiron Le Grice and with Safron Rossi in January, we were trying to talk about the nature of the archetype and astrology as dealing with archetypes, and we were trying to describe what that meant; cuz that’s actually really integral to what we’re doing on every single one of these forecast episodes. I feel like some of the time, like with this discussion, what we’re doing is we’re trying to get to what are the underlying archetypal principles that are being represented by these planetary alignments. Because if you can figure out what the underlying archetype is then you can figure out some of the different ways in which it’s gonna manifest in the world in different people’s lives. But that really has to be your first access point—attempting to understand the archetype. Because if you focus too much on the particular manifestations then you’re gonna come up with something that might be super relevant to like one person but isn’t to thousands of others. Yeah, I don’t know if the three of us have ever really talked about this concept of archetypes, or if you view it in the same way. Like I had somebody a few months ago that objected to the concept. He said, “I’m not an archetypal astrologer. I don’t believe in that.” And that was kind of a weird statement for me when I read that, because I’m not sure if that’s true for any astrologer really. On some level, astrologers—whether they realize it or not, or whether they would articulate it in that way—it seems like most astrologers are dealing with astrology in what might be classified as an archetypal way. How do you guys actually conceptualize what we’re doing here then?
KS: I mean, I agree with what you’re saying almost completely, because I do think the way to understand how these astrological influences might manifest is to not just, “Okay, Mars-Saturn could be these three things,” it’s what is the underlying essence or symbolism here? What is it speaking to? What kind of chain of sympathy is it connected to? Because anything that is like that is going to be what’s triggered through this. And I think the idea of doing astrological work—it’s almost like going back to the first principles or the core essence of stuff, which actually is the realm of archetypes. Like I think the word ‘arche’, isn’t it like Greek for ‘first’, or something to do with the initial thrust or idea of something?
CB: Yeah, like ‘first’ or ‘primary’ or ‘beginning’.
KS: Exactly. So when we’re trying to really understand the essence or the inside, gunky stuff of a planetary aspect, we’re trying to understand the core of it, because everything that emanates from it is going to be like it or connected to it in some way. That’s how I think I’d respond. But what about you, Austin?
AC: I don’t think that I can offer a brief summary of my thinking on this. I think it is worth noting that we’re using the term ‘archetype’ very differently from the way that, for example, a Jungian therapist would use it.
CB: Right.
AC: You know, the idea of an archetype, as we’re using it, is closer to a Platonic form and is inherently metaphysical.
CB: I mean, how would you define it? Cuz that was one of the things Safron and I ran into issues with. We spent like half-an-hour trying to figure out how to define ‘archetype’ in a way that made sense to a novice viewer. And I realized what a crucial concept that is—that most astrologers are taking for granted—and that also probably says something about the underlying metaphysical or philosophical assumptions that astrologers are making, but not always really articulating. I mean, we’re basically postulating that there’s like core, transcendent concepts that exist out there, that all of the subsets or manifestations derive from, but somehow the transcendent, overarching concept, the idea, can sometimes be represented by planetary alignments or planets themselves.
AC: Well, you know, one presupposition of this is that reality is formatted according to archetypes, right—that that’s how everything works. And so, it has bigger implications than the image of the old man and the way that it comes into people’s dreams in a therapeutic session, right? That is connected to Saturn, but Saturn is not an archetype. But in its influence we see archetypal patterns very clearly. But as Kelly was pointing out the archetype as a shape or form sort of has to preexist and be at a more primordial level than the planets themselves. The planets themselves are an expression of an archetype, but the archetype has to preexist them.
CB: Right.
AC: Yeah, this is complicated. This is a great topic.
KS: We’re getting into the magic realm now with the way things kind of all connect.
CB: Yeah. I mean, that is a broader discussion.
KS: We could go on a massive tangent here. I can just see it in both of your eyes.
CB: That was something that came—
AC: Let me see if I can do a transition here.
CB: Okay.
AC: So getting to the heart of complicated, thorny questions is also very much the topic of Mercury’s inferior conjunction with the Sun, which also occurs at the beginning of April, and which we are only a few days out from right now. That is the cazimi point. Is that April 2?
KS: April 1.
AC: April 1.
KS: April 1, Eastern—you guys know me. So it’s about two o’clock in the afternoon, Eastern. So it will be very early in the morning on the 2nd in Australia, and just a few hours earlier, Pacific, 11° Aries.
AC: Right. And so, Mercury’s conjunction with the Sun marks the dead center of the retrograde, and metaphorically it also represents the completion of Mercury’s ‘purification’ in the fires of the Sun. And from that point, Mercury will begin moving away from the Sun. The distance between them will grow greater rather than as it’s been, where it’s less and less everyday. And so, that inferior conjunction, the cazimi point, often brings a note of clarity about the matters which have been complicated or confused, which is very helpful. And of course, like Kelly was saying about clarity, you don’t always get to see what you want in clarity, but you do get to see things as they are and orient to them, and therefore, be more effective because you’re not orienting to an illusion.
CB: Yeah. And that’s so crazy that that happens so close to the Mercury-Saturn conjunction. I guess that’s why I said the month starts off with a blast of some sort. Because it’s like we get the Full Moon in Libra, then we get the Mercury-Sun conjunction, the cazimi, on April 1, and then shortly after that we have the Mars-Saturn conjunction going exact at 8°57’ of Capricorn.
AC: Yeah. So one other note is that as April begins, Venus has just moved into Taurus.
KS: Yay.
AC: And Venus will be in Taurus for the majority of the month. Although Mars and Saturn are drying and challenging and frustrating and sometimes enraging, Venus being in Taurus—the sign that Venus rules—is a strong force for coherence and provides a little moisture. Moisture is what allows things to cohere, right?
KS: Yeah.
AC: If your body dried out, it would fall apart. And so, there’s a little bit of a counterpoint. Venus doesn’t get to define the tone of the month, but Venus is on the other side of the see-saw, which is helpful.
KS: She is. And I’m glad you mentioned that, Austin, cuz of course Venus in Taurus is my favorite thing about April. And interesting, timing-wise, that weekend of April 7th and 8th—which is when the Moon moves through the Mars-Saturn conjunction and then that energy does start to just be less intense—that’s actually when Venus starts to aspect Saturn. That also happens on April 7. Venus will trine Saturn. And then the following week, Venus will trine Mars. I don’t know if ‘softening’ is quite the right word, but there is sort of some maybe ‘balancing’ is a better word when we’re talking about these qualities coming in. So that first full weekend in April, we will see a bit of a shift as Venus kind of—well, she aspects both the planets and then she moves away from them. So she just kind of settles into the fullness of being in Taurus.
AC: Yeah. To use the ‘hard work/injury/labor’ metaphor they’ve been doing for Mars and Saturn, it’s not that Venus declares a period of leisure and grace, it’s that Venus applies an unguent to a bruise, right?
KS: That’s beautiful.
AC: Yeah, you’re in the middle of a 10-round Muay Thai fight, and you’ve taken a lot of elbows to the face, but at least here’s a little healing unguent, right? Here’s a little something. Here’s some water between rounds.
CB: Right. Yeah, that’s a really important distinction to make, cuz that’s core to a lot of traditional mitigation factors. Which is the question of when you get a difficult aspect in the chart, but then there’s a positive aspect, does that mean the positive aspect is gonna cancel out part of the negative one? Or does it mean it’s simply going to help to ease—almost like what you were describing—the trauma or whatever it is that the negative aspect indicates? And oftentimes it seems like that’s the direction that it goes, that you get both. The really difficult thing happens, but then sometimes there’s a positive thing that comes in afterwards to help smooth things out.
AC: Yeah. And I think it’s a point of nuance and interpretation to be able to figure out whether a time period is gonna be primarily tough, with some help at the right time, or whether it’s gonna be primarily easy, but there will be a couple of pains in the ass. You know, which tone is leading and then which is supplementing.
CB: Right, definitely. So it looks like Venus catches up to and trines Saturn about April 7. And that’s kind of interesting cuz that’s about the same time that the Moon of course is conjoining Saturn and Mars. And then a few days later, it looks like about the 10th or 11th, Venus trines Mars.
KS: Yeah, the 11th.
CB: The 11th—at about 13°-14° of Taurus and Capricorn. So, yeah, anything else about that? I mean, one of the things that’s interesting about this Mars-Saturn conjunction—compared to one the last ones we had a few years ago—was that last one took place in Scorpio, which was traditionally a Mars-ruled sign, whereas this one’s taking place in Capricorn, which is traditionally a Saturn-ruled sign. So there’s a little bit of an interesting contrast there in terms of the experience of Mars and Saturn coming together in the domain of Mars versus Mars and Saturn coming together in the domain of Capricorn, or of Saturn.
KS: Yes.
CB: Have you guys been seeing that? I mean, I’ve been seeing it with people like yourselves or other people that have important positions there in Capricorn and like really having to put in a lot of hard work and really having to push their own boundaries, sometimes in terms of their energy or their ability to focus and concentrate to levels that they previously hadn’t even gone to in order to accomplish something. And most of them are pulling it off. I mean, there’s also other more problematic situations where somebody might push it too far and go past that breaking point or that boundary that they perhaps shouldn’t cross, but that’s not always the typical manifestation. I guess you’re both in the camp of you’re both just working really hard at this point.
KS: Yeah.
AC: Oh, yeah.
CB: Okay.
AC: It doesn’t always work this way, but things kicked off on Mercury’s retrograde, the day of Mercury’s station, and it’s been a blur since then. It’s just wake up, work all day, go to sleep, wake up, work all day. I had this wonderfully-balanced template for my days and weeks that I’ve had to temporarily cast aside because that’s just not gonna get it done during this period of time.
CB: Sure, sure.
KS: Yeah, I agree.
CB: So another thing that comes up pretty early—I’m trying to look at some of our other aspects for early in the month. One of them that happens in the first couple of weeks is Jupiter sextile Pluto, which I think is the second one, right?
KS: Yeah, the 14th. So that weekend. It’s the second sextile between Jupiter in Scorpio. The first one was in January, and I think the final one is in September. That’s really the biggest outer planetary-type aspect pattern we have for 2018, and because it’s the second activation, it’s a bit of a check-in for a process of growth or transformation that people might have started back in January. And if I’m not mistaken, Austin, when we talked about this previously, we did actually agree that the word ‘transformation’ was relevant for this particular aspect. I think you actually said that word is often overused in astrology, but relevant for this aspect.
AC: Yeah. And I said back then I don’t think it’s a big deal. I see this as a little additional aid in whatever processes of transformation are already in play.
KS: Got it.
AC: It’s a shot in the arm, but it’s quality is not fiery or activating like that. It’s a little extra endurance, a little extra depth. But it’s a sextile. It’s just not that big a deal.
CB: I kind of like it. Normally, I wouldn’t care about it that much. But in this instance, I kind of like that it’s still that close, especially later in the months, as Mars creeps closer and closer to that conjunction with Pluto at about 21° of Capricorn, which it completes eventually around April 25 or April 26. That’s one of the highlights of the month, that Jupiter is about at 19° or so of Scorpio at that point; so still forming a relatively close sextile to that Mars-Pluto conjunction. Which if anybody’s getting hit by that one particularly hard, at least there’ll be some offsetting factor or influence that might be leveling things out a bit more, or adding some counterbalance than it might not have otherwise.
AC: Mm-hmm. Well, I think that one background factor with all of this stuff—all of this ‘Mars-Saturn’ stuff that we’ve been talking about—is that Jupiter is in a Mars-ruled sign, therefore Jupiter can be said to sort of locate growth or opportunities for growth in the sphere of Mars. And so, it makes some of the difficult ‘Mars’ stuff that we’ve been talking about—and some of the difficult ‘Mars’ stuff which is waiting for us later in the year—more of a growth opportunity. I feel like ‘growth’ is also overused.
KS: I was like, “I can’t believe these words. This is great.”
AC: Yeah. So this month is about growth and transformation.
CB: Right.
AC: Kill me.
KS: Those words are overused, but there is something relevant, I think. I think the point you’re making, Chris—Jupiter is in Scorpio and it’s gonna be aspected by its ruling planet.
CB: Yeah, it’s gonna be aspected by its ruling planet. Jupiter is earlier in zodiacal order, so it’s actually in a superior position. And especially in day charts—where Mars is oftentimes the more difficult planet based on the concept of sect—Jupiter, when it’s in a superior position, and when it’s able to closely aspect Mars, can play a major mitigating factor. And I see this really commonly in natal charts. Like I actually did a reading recently for an old client who was one of my first clients from more than a decade ago—and it had been a few years since I talked to him—and I forgot how much he had Mars in a day chart as one of his most difficult planets. But he had both Venus and Jupiter overcoming it, and I forgot how much that that really offset and mitigated the extent to which he experienced that as a difficult planet in his life. He still did, and that was still clearly the part of his life where there were some instances where some of the most challenging things happened to him. But in terms of the whole range of possible manifestations that I’ve seen in other clients that didn’t have mitigating factors, it was really clear that he was really on the easier end of the spectrum in terms of dealing with Mars as the most difficult planet in that sphere of his life.
KS: Yeah. I was just checking my trusty ephemeris, which I have been reunited with after leaving it at home when I went to the conference last weekend. This is the last Mars-Jupiter aspect with Jupiter in Scorpio by degree. So by the time Mars gets far enough into Aquarius later in the year, Jupiter will actually be in Sag. So I’m just not sure whether that does pull out a little bit of that extra growth or pushing forward on the ‘growth’ thing about the ‘Mars-Jupiter’ piece. But it’s definitely an interesting window, because of course there’s the Mars-Pluto conjunction that’s happening. It’s the second of the big Mars conjunctions this April. So it’s kind of like April is bookended by Mars-Saturn conjunction at the start of the month and Mars-Pluto at the end of the month.
CB: Right.
AC: So just to get a little bit Jungian and also to specify what kind of growth Jupiter-Mars is about—
KS: Oh, yeah, good point.
AC: It’s not growth in any direction. From a Jungian point of view, it’s very much shadow integration. You know, it’s becoming one with your monster and learning to draw on that strength and direct it towards the work that needs to be done. We’re talking about transformation. It’s transformation in the direction of being capable of dealing with more challenging and ferocious circumstances, right? There are a variety of directions of growth this is specifically not, right? This is becoming better at Mars and being capable of dealing with the difficult situations which Mars rules over. It’s one of the seven spheres of life, right, but it is not those other six.
KS: Yes. And I think you make a great point, Austin. Because the nature of growth or the territory of growth that Jupiter in Scorpio—I kind of conceptualize this as more internal. It’s one’s emotional landscape. It’s exploring the depths or the demons within and taking the ‘Mars’ sword to that, if you like. It’s not that ‘external abundance’ growth that people might think of with the word ‘growth’ and ‘Jupiter’ going together. And when you say ‘Mars’, I mean, that always makes me think of ‘Mars’ realms or ‘Mars’ topics. It’s about making those tough decisions, or finding the strength you need to be courageous even when it’s difficult perhaps.
AC: Yeah, absolutely.
CB: Definitely. So that seems like one of the major signatures this month is also just Mars in Capricorn and Mars being exalted there. But we’re almost getting—I don’t want to say, maybe it is—a more ‘purer’ manifestation of Mars in the sign of its exaltation because Saturn is there, and to some extent because Pluto is there, and that’s where Mars is gonna conjoin it as well. And then the other weird thing that happens this month is the Sun has already moved into Taurus—or will move into Taurus in April—so it’ll start moving into a range of being in a trine with Saturn and Pluto. That’s around the time when the Sun is trine the outer planets, when they start stationing retrograde or direct. So we actually get a station of Saturn. Saturn stations retrograde in Capricorn on April 17, and then Pluto stations retrograde in Capricorn on April 22. So this is all not too far from those times when Mars is conjoining those planets and they’re also stationing, which is potentially an intensification of some of their significations in that sign. So that actually kind of brings up we should move onto the middle of the month at this point, where we get our first lunation, which takes place, I believe, on April 15, which is a New Moon in Aries.
KS: Yeah, cuz that’s the other theme about April. Both the lunations are in Mars signs.
CB: Right.
KS: Yeah, we have the Aries New Moon, obviously, which we’ll talk about now, at 26 Aries. And then at the end of the month, we have the Scorpio Full Moon, which I think is one of Austin’s ‘debauchery’ Full Moons.
AC: Yes, especially with Jupiter there.
KS: That’s a very resounding ‘yes’, Austin. I love it. But this is a New Moon conjunct Uranus in Aries, so that’s totally different.
AC: And one thing I’d like to say about this is that New Moons being the end and beginning of lunar cycles are always points where some things stop and new things begin. And it’s especially so this month because the New Moon in Aries also coincides with Mercury’s direct station in Aries very tightly. And so, that’s different. Things are literally moving in different directions. And as far as novelty or new courses of events beginning, the fact that the New Moon is tightly-conjunct Uranus certainly suggests that it will not be more of the same.
KS: Yes. So it is a bit of a shift, isn’t it? I mean, Uranus is very different from what the first couple of weeks feel like.
AC: Yeah. And so, we have that Mars-Saturn co-presence in the background, but again, Mercury’s going to be direct. Again, we have a New Moon right on Uranus, and we’re also moving more into the ‘Mars-Pluto-Jupiter’ thing that we were talking about earlier and less on the pure Mars-Saturn. You know, during the first week of the month and right now—just a few days prior to the beginning of the month—it’s very Mars-Saturn in tone. It’s work, work, work, you know, grind, whereas that Mars-Pluto has a different quality. Pluto speaks to a different layer of the psyche and of reality than Saturn.
CB: Right. So April 15, that’s really notable that we basically have a lunation. We have a New Moon in Aries, and Mercury stations direct and its retrograde period is over at that point. A couple of days later, we have Saturn stationing retrograde at 9° of Capricorn on April 17. And this actually is a good time to mention our electional chart—our auspicious electional chart for this month—which takes place in this two-day timeframe; there’s a couple of nice elections. And, Austin, you actually first brought this to my attention. Apparently, Leisa—when she was researching the elections—did come across this span of days as well, when the Moon moves into Taurus, and noticed some nice electional charts. But this is actually something where you were looking for an election for starting something and narrowed in on this range of dates, right?
AC: Somebody on a forum actually pointed it out to me like two months ago, or just pointed it out like two months ago. And I was like, “Ooh, look at that,” cuz we have our five of the seven visible planets in either their exaltation or rulership.
KS: Yeah.
AC: That’s very rare, very good.
CB: Right. The range is basically April 16 and April 17. We have Venus in its own sign in Taurus, the Moon moves into Taurus, which is the sign of its exaltation, we have the Sun exalted in Aries. We have Mars exalted in Capricorn, and we have Saturn in its own sign in Capricorn as well. So that is pretty notable seeing that many planets either in their sign or in their own exaltation.
KS: Yeah. So basically the period with the Moon in Taurus is the peak of that.
CB: Right, exactly. Cuz then you get the Moon not only in Taurus—so that it just fills out having another planet in the sign of its domicile or exaltation—but when the Moon actually gets into Taurus, it’s actually in pretty good condition in terms of its aspects with other planets. So as soon as it moves into Taurus, it starts applying to eventually conjoin Venus in Taurus—which it does I think on the 17th—conjoining it around 20 or 21 Taurus. And it starts applying to an opposition with Jupiter—which is at 21° of Scorpio—while at the same time not having any hard aspects with malefic planets. So it’s actually forming trines with all of those Capricorn planets—Mars, Saturn, and Pluto—which is fine. Interestingly, at some point while it’s in Taurus—this is just after the New Moon—it’s gonna make a heliacal rise. And it’s gonna come out from under the beams of the Sun on the other end of the conjunction with the Sun, so that it’s a waxing Moon that’s gonna be increasing in light and building up.
AC: Yeah, there’s a lot to like.
CB: Lot to like. Oh, yeah, and it’s right after Mercury has stationed direct. So it’s like a Mercury retrograde-free chart. So in terms of elections there’s a few different options. I think, Austin, you’re gonna go with the chart for April 17. Leisa and I ended up going with one for April 16 just because if you do April 16, you can do a Taurus rising chart. So our recommended election this month takes place on April 16, 2018. Set the time for approximately 7:30 in the morning. 7:30 AM. So it’s not too far after sunrise. But it’ll have Taurus rising, with Venus conjunct the ascendant at 20° of Taurus, moving into an opposition with Jupiter at 21° of Scorpio. The Moon is just barely in Taurus at this point, and it’s applying to trines with Saturn, Mars, and Pluto, and then eventually to a conjunction with Venus and an opposition with Jupiter. So both the ruler of the ascendant—which is Venus—as well as the Moon are in pretty good condition, both by zodiacal strength, as well as aspect and house placement. So that’s our recommended election for this month, I think. And, Austin, do you want to share your secrets in terms that you found on the 17th?
AC: I don’t know if I have any secrets—and I might change my mind—but I’m looking at a sunrise on the 17th.
KS: And, Austin, what’s your purpose for that? Obviously, the charts are very different. We can even have an Aries rising with Mars in Cap as the ruler, or we can have the Venus rising. What is it, if you can share? I don’t know if that’s an option.
AC: Oh, I’ll probably use the Aries rising for an incorporation chart, for founding a legal business entity.
KS: Oh, yeah, I guess with the ruler in the 10th there. Like a business deal.
AC: I will probably actually do a couple of things over these two days. That Venus-Moon conjunction is so nice—
KS: It’s juicy.
AC: —and also being tightly aspected by Jupiter, I might just do some ‘Venus’ work there. Maybe I’ll make a thing, or maybe I’ll ask for favors from a planet, but that’s really nice. But I see that as sort of a separate thing. Like I don’t want something quite that leisurely for an election that has to do with work and accomplishment, whereas I wouldn’t want the Aries rising if I wanted something Venusian.
KS: Yeah. Yeah, that’s really interesting. And then going with the 17th, of course it’s a Tuesday, which is a Mars day anyway, so that’s nice for the Aries rising.
AC: Yeah, yeah. It would be the day and hour of Mars with the Sun rising in a Mars-ruled sign, with Mars exalted in the 10th.
KS: Yeah.
CB: Exalted in the 10th and applying to a sextile with Jupiter.
AC: Yeah. Not too bad.
CB: Is that what you were gonna say, Kelly?
KS: Well, I was actually just gonna say if you were looking for the ‘Moon-Venus’ stuff, the Monday election—which is the Moon’s day—even though the Moon-Venus aspect is not conjunct; but just to amp up the Moon a little bit, the day before that you were looking at, Chris.
CB: Yeah.
KS: Or just later.
CB: And that’s what we were focusing on was, yeah, that. Basically, if you wanted to do a Mars election, this would be a great day versus if you wanted to do more of a Venus election, then put Taurus rising, and you can use this chart, on the 17th, with Taurus rising and the Moon applying pretty closely to that conjunction with Venus and opposition with Jupiter. The only thing we didn’t like as much about this for the Venus election is that Venus is already separating from Jupiter at this point on the 17th, whereas if you go back just a day, to the 16th, then Venus is still applying to Jupiter. So there’s like a trade-off there.
AC: I don’t think that Venus in Taurus needs Jupiter in Scorpio. I think that’s like a bonus. But Venus is 100% fine without that applying aspect.
CB: Sure.
KS: I mean, even just having the Moon applying to Venus in Taurus—I mean, I’ve used that in elections in the past.
AC: Yeah, that’s awesome.
KS: That is fundamentally phenomenal for ‘Moon and Venus’ things.
CB: Right.
AC: Yeah, I think of basically Aries rising for ass-kicking and Taurus rising for food eating, I don’t know.
KS: Food eating or just getting romantic or doing fun, pleasure, pampering stuff.
AC: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.
KS: I’m gonna bake some funky stuff with that Moon-Venus.
AC: Some ‘Venus’ cookies.
KS: These are great. This is good.
CB: Yeah. And one of the things that we noticed and that Leisa really remarked on was that April is such a better month for electional charts that last month. Like she had a really hard time finding elections for March, but this month was much easier, and all these planets being in their domicile or exaltation really helped in terms of that. So Leisa’s found at least four other auspicious electional charts for April, and we’re about to record the next Auspicious Elections Podcast in the next day or two, and release it before the end of this month for patrons of The Astrology Podcast on the $5 and $10 tier. So if you’d like to get access to that, just go to our page at patreon.com/theastrologypodcast, or go to theastrologypodcast.com/subscribe for more information about how to sign up for that. All right, so those are the elections for the month. So let’s switch back to the forecast. So we’re now moving past the middle of the month and we start getting into the late teens and early 20’s. And that’s when some other ingresses and other things start taking place, right?
KS: Yeah. Actually there’s only one sign ingress this month—other than the Moon of course, which is switching all the time—and that’s Venus moving into Gemini on the 24th.
CB: Okay. There was just one other, which is just the normal Sun Taurus.
KS: Yes.
CB: The Sun goes into Taurus on—
KS: Kind of important.
CB: Minor detail. Yeah, so the Sun goes into Taurus very late on the 19th, I believe. It goes into 0° of Taurus. And then, what was the date on the Venus ingress, Kelly?
KS: I’ve got here the 24th, Eastern.
CB: Okay. So on April 24, Venus completes its trip through Taurus and goes into Gemini, and that’s the other ingress that takes place this month. So are there any other major alignments? I know we have Pluto stationing retrograde April 22, which we already mentioned. And then eventually we get our second lunation at the end of the month, right?
KS: Yeah. I mean, the last week of April we’ve got Mars sextile Jupiter, which is exact on the 24th, and then we have the Mars conjunct Pluto aspect on the 26th. I know we’ve sort of touched on those, but just to put the timeline in, and then kind of leading up to, yeah, the Scorpio Full Moon on the 29th or the 30th, I guess, depending on where people are. Yeah, I kind of like the Mars-Jupiter. I think it’s going to be helpful for certain things. I think it’s going to be maybe just a little bit of an easing, potentially, of some of the heavier energy from the start of the month. And, yeah, I’m waiting for the birth of a baby in late April, so I’m eagerly watching the charts.
CB: You have like an atomic clock, and you’re ready to take the time as soon as it happens?
KS: Yes. So I can get into the country at the right time, but, yes.
CB: Okay, nice. Who is that?
KS: My sister, actually. One of my sisters who is due to have a baby at the end of April. So I was teaching on electional astrology at NORWAC last weekend, and of course my sister’s getting married. I picked the damn chart. And I won’t reveal the whole chart here, but when you put Pisces on the 5th house, you’re gonna fall pregnant really quickly. I didn’t want to have anything preventing pregnancy in her wedding chart, and I might have done slightly too good of a job, cuz they weren’t expecting to fall pregnant quite so quickly.
CB: Oh, wow.
KS: Yeah.
CB: Nice. Well, congratulations. That’s a funny anecdote. Have you slipped that into your electional lecture, so far?
KS: Yes, I did manage to pop that in last weekend. And of course the bias is that when your sister’s the astrologer, the ruler of your house will be stronger than the ruler of your partner’s house, which we also teach.
CB: Right.
KS: Anyway, what astrologers do for fun, electional charts. But, yeah, I like the Mars-Jupiter, and then of course the Mars-Pluto. I don’t know. It just feels more like less heavy in that last week of April. I don’t know if you guys agree, but there’s a bit more grease helping the wheels turn, I think.
AC: Yeah, I would say that it is actually not-less heavy, but that the heavy work will proceed much more smoothly.
KS: Oh, that’s a great definition. I love our Saturn in Virgo word, ‘specificity’.
AC: Yeah. Actually you’re right, but—
KS: I couldn’t say it a better way.
CB: Yeah. I mean, by this time, late in April, we’re getting some distance finally from the Mars-Saturn conjunction. We have that Full Moon that happens in Scorpio. It will actually be visibly conjunct Jupiter probably, now that I think about it. If you can actually see Jupiter in the sky shortly after sunset, you’ll see the Moon and Jupiter will rise up over the eastern horizon right after the Sun sets and it gets dark out. So there’ll be a nice Full Moon moving towards the conjunction with Jupiter at that time right at the end of the month, on April 29.
KS: That’ll look lovely for two or three nights actually, cuz there’s nothing else in the sky around those two planets. Yeah, look up at night towards the end of the month, and the planet near the Moon will be Jupiter. I don’t know. I’ve always liked the idea of the ‘bathing’ in the emanation or the rays, if you like, in the lights of the planets. Even if it’s the day before or the day after the exact Full Moon, that’ll be lovely and highly fertile with the Moon and Jupiter together in a water sign.
CB: Right, definitely. And it looks like Venus will come out shortly after sunset as well. So it’s like the Sun will set in Taurus. And then a little bit after that, once it gets dark enough, you’ll see Venus for just a little bit before it sets over the western horizon, over the descendant, there in early Gemini.
KS: Yeah, she’s gonna be quite bright in the western sky through the latter part of the year, or at least for a few months.
CB: Right. As she gets closer to stationing and going retrograde.
KS: Yeah.
CB: Interesting. All right, well, I think that brings us towards the end of April then, and that’s pretty much the majority of the rest of the major alignments and other things. Were there any major things that we meant to mention but didn’t get to that take place in April?
KS: I think we touched on everything that I had on my list. Anything you wanted to throw in, Austin?
AC: No, I don’t think I had anything that we didn’t get to.
CB: All right, brilliant.
KS: It’s hard to go past the Mars-Saturn as the major theme, and I think we did a good job of exploring that.
CB: Yeah, definitely. Mars-Saturn, that conjunction is the focal point of this month. It’s something that we’re already leading up to and are clearly building up to here towards the end of March, and a lot of us have been noticing. And that’ll be probably the main thing that we’ll be paying attention to in early April, and we’ll still be dealing with some of the aftereffects until it gets out of Capricorn. And that’s actually one of the things that’s interesting about that—this isn’t a normal conjunction or a normal trip of Mars through Capricorn. Because it’s actually gonna come back to that sign later this year due to its retrograde period, right?
KS: Yes.
AC: Mm-hmm. And even this initial time in Capricorn is longer than usual, because Mars is already slowing down in preparation for that retrograde.
CB: Okay. Well, that’s a really interesting point, cuz that’s gonna elongate some of those conjunctions over Saturn to a lesser extent, but especially Pluto.
AC: Yep.
CB: Okay. And so, Mars then is gonna be entering its shadow, cuz it’s gonna go retrograde at 9° of Aquarius later this year. What degree does it retrograde back to? Isn’t it like 23 or 24 Capricorn?
AC: 26.
KS: 28.
AC: 28, okay. I was thinking of Venus.
KS: Yes.
AC: So even though it doesn’t get back that far into Capricorn, it still spends another month in Capricorn during that retrogression period. Because Mars is extremely slow leading up to the station, it takes a while to accelerate and leave that station. So we’re actually gonna have another month of Mars in Capricorn later in the year, or in the third quarter.
CB: Right. It looks like it’s focusing on August.
KS: Second-half of August, the first 10 days of September.
CB: Okay. So that means that by May—the middle of May—Mars will hit that 28° of Capricorn that it’ll eventually retrograde back into. So by that point, in the middle of May, it’ll be in its shadow period, basically.
KS: Yeah. Just a few days before Mars goes into Aquarius, which happens on the same day that Uranus goes into Taurus, which I’m sure we’ll have a lot to say about next month.
AC: Indeed.
CB: Yes. That is gonna be one of our major things we’re gonna focus on next month in our forecast for May, so we will save that though for next time. And by the time we’re doing that forecast, we will be in the home stretch for UAC and for the run-up to the United Astrology Conference. So I’ll put out a call for questions here probably in that forecast episode. But if people want to start thinking of some good questions for that meetup—especially if you’re planning on attending the United Astrology Conference in Chicago towards the end of May—we’d love to hear your questions. So I’m not gonna start taking them yet, but start thinking about them, and then I’ll put out an open call by the beginning of May. And hopefully we’ll see a lot of you at that conference in a couple of months.
KS: As someone was saying at NORWAC last weekend, “It’s a sextile to NORWAC.” That’s an ‘astro’ nerd joke, but it’s getting very close.
CB: Yeah, we’re so close. It’s been coming for years now. Like this has been in preparation for like five years or something like that, so it’s kind of wild that it’s already here. There’s a ton of really interesting stuff that’s already building up for it. I mean, like Austin’s book coming together, us doing the live podcast episode. There’s gonna be a ton of great talks. Like we actually found out a few weeks ago, if you go to the website, you can pre-register and indicate on the schedule what lectures you’re planning on attending. So there’s like a ranking. If you go to the UAC website, you can sort it by which lecture has the most people signed up for it already. And I know me and Austin and Kelly—I think all three of us are pretty high in the rankings. So, yeah, that’s exciting.
KS: Talk about pressure. God, can we just wait and worry on the day whether anyone turns up? We’re gonna have this pressure for two months.
CB: No, it’s good to know ahead of time that you’re gonna have a full audience and some people to talk to.
KS: I guess it helps with handout prep, for sure.
CB: Really quickly, what are your lectures? I’m speaking on the master of the nativity or the overall ruler of the chart in ancient astrology, as well as a lecture on the origins of the house division debate, where I show how and why, in the Hellenistic tradition, house division became a major debate, and why it’s still a significant debate that needs to be reconciled today. What are you guys talking about?
AC: I’m gonna talk about decans. It’s a shock to everybody, I’m sure.
CB: Awesome, good.
KS: That’s fantastic.
CB: So a talk on the decans and the topic of your book.
AC: Yeah, the topic of 36 Faces. The sold out 36 Faces, might I add. Yeah, I’ll be talking about the history of the decans and looking at the images, and talking a little bit about how to use them in delineation, and what they do and what they don’t do, etc., etc. It will be looking at some weird pictures.
KS: Some weird pictures.
CB: Brilliant.
KS: Oh, yeah, I can imagine.
CB: Brilliant. That seems awesome. What are you speaking on, Kelly?
KS: Well, I’m giving two lectures. I’m giving one Friday morning and Sunday morning, and I’m giving one talk on activating your aspects. So it’s sort of a deep-dive look at aspects, how to figure out which aspects are the most important aspects in your chart, and then kind of what to do with them. So lot’s of interpretation. And then the second lecture is on special signatures in the birth chart, which I just had to remind myself of by quickly looking at the website. And in this one, it’s a deep dive into planetary interpretation—so what are some of the extra meanings that you can get out of the planets other than just planet/sign/house. So I’ll be bringing in some of our lovely traditional ideas about planetary strength and planetary visibility, so that’ll be really interesting. So both of them will be going deeper on natal chart interpretation.
CB: Awesome. Brilliant. All right, well, I’m looking forward to seeing both of your lectures and seeing both of you there, as well as everybody that listens to the podcast. So I think we’ll wrap up now. One of the things I meant to mention is if you like the podcast and you want to support it, if you’re listening to us iTunes, make sure you go and rate the podcast, since that helps other people to find us. If you want to support the podcast, you can always become a subscriber on Patreon and get access to bonus content. And then people are always asking me afterwards what software I use, and I always forget to mention that I’m using Solar Fire when I’m displaying charts for these live forecast episodes. And they’ve actually given me a promo code for listeners of the podcast. If you purchase the Solar Fire software, you can use the promo ‘AP15’, and you get like a 10% or 15% discount on the software, so definitely check that out. All right, well, thanks everyone for listening, and we’ll see you next time.
AC: Bye.
KS: Bye, everyone.