The Astrology Podcast
Transcript of Episode 523, titled:
Bad Bunny, Puerto Rico, and the Saturn-Neptune Conjunction
With Chris Brennan and Ashley Otero
Episode originally released on February 12, 2026
Original episode URL:
https://theastrologypodcast.com/2026/02/12/bad-bunny-puerto-rico-and-the-saturn-neptune-conjunction/
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Note: This is a transcript of a spoken word podcast. If possible, we encourage you to listen to the audio or video version, since they include inflections that may not translate well when written out. Our transcripts are created by human transcribers, and the text may contain errors and differences from the spoken audio. If you find any errors then please send them to us by email: theastrologypodcast@gmail.com
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Transcribed by Teresa “Peri” Lardo
Transcription released February 14th, 2026
Copyright © 2026 TheAstrologyPodcast.com
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CHRIS BRENNAN: Hey. My name is Chris Brennan, and you’re listening to The Astrology Podcast. Joining me today is astrologer Ashley Otero, and we’re gonna be talking about the recent performance of Bad Bunny at the Super Bowl and how it’s tied in with the Saturn-Neptune conjunctions and the history of Puerto Rico and the Spanish-speaking world in general.
So hey, Ashley – thanks for joining me.
ASHLEY OTERO: Hi. Thanks for having me back on. It’s good to be here.
CB: Yeah, welcome back. You were previously we did an episode with Patrick Watson years ago, which seems like such a long time ago now.
AO: Yeah. It’s close to a decade ago!
CB: Oh my god.
AO: It’s like, 8 years.
CB: Okay. Well, welcome back. So you know, the other day there was this massive performance that Bad Bunny did at the Super Bowl that was amazing, and I saw you writing about it afterwards on Facebook. And I was myself researching it, because I realized that it was tied in with the Saturn-Neptune conjunction that’s happening this month that repeats every 36 years, and I found an interesting historical thread about that. So you and I got to talking and yeah, we’re just gonna have a casual conversation today about especially how that Saturn-Neptune conjunction is interesting in terms of the historical moment and the kind of cultural impact that it has and how that may echo in different ways through history.
So where should we start? I mean, the start is maybe just the setting – that we’re recording this on February 11th, 2026, and the Super Bowl performance was just a few days ago now, right?
AO: Yeah, the 8th, was it?
CB: Yeah, the 8th.
AO: Yeah.
CB: And the Saturn-Neptune conjunction at this point – maybe I’ll share the chart for that, or at least an approximation of what the chart was looking like that day. And just how close this Saturn-Neptune conjunction is at this point. So today it’s already, what, the 11th, so it was the 8th I think is what we – yeah, Sunday the 8th was the Super Bowl. And we see Saturn at 29 degrees of Pisces and Neptune at zero degrees of Aries, and they were moving quickly together to form that conjunction finally which only goes exact every 36 to 38 years, and this is the first time it’s gonna be exact in this cycle, even though they’ve been copresent in Pisces for the past few years.
And the Super Bowl performance was a really big deal, because one of the interesting ways that it was a significant milestone is that the performance was entirely in Spanish, right?
AO: Yeah. There was a lot of – that itself seemed to be very controversial for a lot of people, very divisive topic.
CB: Yeah. But he – Bad Bunny – is like, the largest streaming performer in the world right now, I think, right? Like, he’s been setting all sorts of milestones in terms of just his popularity around the world.
AO: Yeah. He’s setting a lot of milestones, and his album just won awards and it’s a big deal. So it was a big deal – a very historical moment – for him to be on that stage.
CB: Yeah, for sure. And it’s like, a Saturn return story for him, because he was born with Saturn in early Pisces, and so Saturn is like, right at 29 degrees of Pisces right now. So this is like, the tail end of what I think we could consider like, a really successful Saturn return story, right?
AO: Yeah, definitely. That’s a really nice story to – I mean, I’m not sure if he follows astrology, but it’s a really nice Saturn cycle to end on for him.
CB: Yeah. For sure. So let me pull up – I’ll pull up his birth data. We unfortunately don’t have a birth time for him, which I think a lot of people have commented on, right?
AO: Oh yeah. I haven’t seen a birth time; I don’t know if there’s one that’s precise that someone has, but.
CB: Okay. I will just show a general chart then for that day and setting it to around like, the middle of the day as just like, an approximation. So he was born May 10th, 1994, and Saturn was at four degrees of Pisces and so right now, just in this past week, like, Saturn’s at 29 degrees of Pisces. So you know, his exact Saturn return would have been earlier when Saturn first went into Pisces in March of 2023 and probably even starting a little bit before that when Saturn was in late Aquarius. And it seems like his career was really starting to hit like, milestones around that point and especially in 2023, I believe, he was nominated for his first album of the year for a first like, Grammy for Album of the Year for – which was a milestone because it was the first time I think that was like, an entirely Spanish-speaking album was nominated for Grammy of the year. But he lost to Harry Styles that year. And then that was part of the inversion that everyone was talking about this year was that the presenter, the person who presented him with the Album of the Year award, was Harry Styles. So there was this funny like, inversion that took place where he had the like, classic – there’s like, a setback or an obstacle or in that instance a loss at the beginning of the Saturn return when it’s exact, but then later at the very tail end of the Saturn return, there’s an inversion and he ends up winning the Grammy.
AO: Yeah. It’s a really full circle moment for sure.
CB: Yeah. And that’s a pretty classic like, Saturn return thing where there’s often some sort of obstacle or difficulty or setback at the beginning, which there – you know, it’s kind of tricky because it’s like, obviously he’s also hitting huge milestones to be nominated for Grammy of the year, but I’m sure it’s always when you’re nominated and then don’t win, there’s still some sort of feeling of like, you know, you wish you would have won that, or that’s too bad, or what have you. But to have it come around years later at the tail end of the Saturn return by sign, that’s also kind of a good demonstration of what I always say about how the Saturn return’s not over until Saturn departs from the natal sign. And even if it’s like, really intense around the exact degree, sometimes you do see this extended range until it leaves that sign.
AO: Yeah. I think it’s also a good demonstration of how rulership plays in as well, because now Jupiter’s exalted in Cancer as he’s hit this – he’s finally reached this milestone at the end of this Saturn return, and Jupiter, the ruler of his Saturn, is in its best place.
CB: Yeah. That’s actually a really good point. I like that. Because also, it’s like, that’s part of the nice thing about his chart is he has all these planets in Pisces – I mean, the Moon might be in Aquarius, but he at the very least has a three-planet stellium of Mars, Saturn, and the Sun. And a Mars-Saturn conjunction can sometimes be kind of tough, but he has Jupiter in Scorpio, which is in a superior trine, like, bonifying all of those Pisces planets with reception, which is a really nice positive mitigating factor that’s helpful for success and stuff. And then that’s a good point that when he wins this Grammy, Jupiter’s in like, mid-Cancer right now trining his natal Jupiter and also trining his Sun and by sign his other Pisces planets.
AO: Yeah. It’s just like, this flow from, you know, going over the previous obstacle and then this kind of removal of that and just going straight forward and reaching that huge milestone.
CB: Yeah. Absolutely. So here’s the transit chart just to show where things are at with the transits. And then it’s like, the date of him losing and almost getting the award for Album of the Year – let me find it. I write down the date, because it was really impressive how close to his actual Saturn return it was. There it is – February 5th, 2023. So this is like, literally right before. So there it is. So we see – oh, this is animating the wrong chart. Hold on a sec.
So this is his chart for – it’s the night of the Grammys in 2023; he’s nominated for Album of the Year for this huge album. But he loses to Harry Styles, and we can see that Saturn’s at 26 degrees of Aquarius and it’s just getting ready the following month to ingress into Pisces. So he really would have, basically, his first exact hit of his Saturn return shortly after this and shortly after this missing out on winning Album of the Year back in 2023, and then literally three years later, it jumps to more recently and Saturn’s in late Pisces. And not only does he win Album of the Year, and he marks that milestone by being the first entirely Spanish language album winning the Grammy of the year for Album of the Year, but then right after that, he also headlines the Super Bowl and makes history by being the first entirely Spanish language performance at the Super Bowl at the same time, which is pretty like, incredible in terms of a feat of success.
AO: Yeah. Definitely.
CB: Yeah.
AO: That’s a big thing to have on your resume, I guess you could say? It’s a big thing.
CB: Yeah. So but despite that, there was a lot of – there was like, complaints leading up to it, and there was some controversy while the majority of people were pretty happy about it and pretty excited about it in terms of how huge his audience is, there were also people complaining about it and like, afterwards on Twitter, for example, there was one person – one celebrity, Jake Paul – who was complaining about the performance afterwards and said something about – he said something derogatory calling Puerto Rican people “fake Americans.” And then I saw like, AOC responding to that and calling him out, but there was a community note next to it which said, “Since 1917, Puerto Rican residents have been US citizens,” and it was like, correcting it. And that immediately caught my eye, because I know that was a Saturn-Neptune conjunction around 1917 just like there’s a Saturn-Neptune conjunction happening right now. And so I realized there was a connection there. So I started tracing it, and I found that in 1917 under the Saturn-Neptune conjunction, like I said, residents of Puerto Rico became US citizens. And then if you jump forward to the next conjunction that was happening in the early 1950s, in 1952 near that conjunction in Libra, the Constitution of Puerto Rico was ratified, which furthered defined things in terms of especially the relationship between Puerto Rico and the US and between having more self-governance that there had been up to that point. And then if you jump forward to the next Saturn-Neptune cycle in 1989, there was this official request where all of the political parties in Puerto Rico got together and formally requested self-determination. And then the US president at the time responded to it and it seemed like it was an important turning point in terms of the movement for having greater self autonomy and recognition at that time, and it sort of sparked some of the modern movements related to that, I think.
AO: Yeah. It’s so interesting just how literal the symbolism plays through. Like, you know, in 1917, it was they were out-of-sign conjunction at that time when the Puerto Rican citizens became US citizens right as Saturn was in Cancer and then Neptune was in Leo. But there’s that theme of like, that Cancer when you look at the chart for the United States and you think about some of the themes that go in there, and then moving forward is like, becoming, I don’t know, I don’t wanna say necessarily “family,” but being integrated into the US in that way. And then the ratification of the constitution and Saturn and Neptune are in Libra, and we’re seeing this relationship changing, and it’s in Libra. And then in Capricorn, we’re looking at trying to have self-determination in ‘89. So that Saturnian theme of like, trying to be more independent in a sense. And then now in Aries, and we still have I’m sure more to see, but just interesting to see also sort of – and maybe we’ll talk about it later, but – some of where Bad Bunny fits in in terms of his own views and how he expresses that through the music and art, and how he’s a pretty influential figure in Puerto Rico as an activist as well, not just an artist.
CB: Yeah, definitely. So let’s talk about that, because like, my initial angle on this was that I thought by finding that signature of those like, three conjunctions in the history of Puerto Rico, I thought this was a story just about Puerto Rico – which it is, partially – and that there’s a really interesting signature with Saturn-Neptune with Puerto Rico in particular. But then I realized later, it actually might be a broader thing about the Spanish-speaking world in the Americas. And we can open that up later, but one of the interesting points just from our perspective as astrologers, it’s interesting that this is a Saturn-Neptune signature that’s coming up with Puerto Rico in particular just because of the Saturn-Neptune often has to do with like, ambiguities and ambiguities over borders or in the Saturn-Neptune episode, Nick and I found a bunch of instances of even things like time zones which are these weird imaginary lines that we sort of set in order to try to divide up something like time and space, basically. And there were all sorts of different periods when Saturn-Neptune conjunctions came up where ambiguities and ambiguities about borders and distinctions was really prominent. And that’s such a fitting signature, then, for Puerto Rico because of this ambiguous relationship that Puerto Rico has with the United States ever since the United States took it over, basically, during the Spanish-American War in 1898, which was under a Saturn-Neptune opposition. But even today, it leads to some of those like, discussions and debates where it’s like, since 1917 Puerto Rican residents are citizens of the United States, but they’re not granted the ability to vote and have representation in that way. And so there’s this like, weird middle ground in terms of independence versus being part of the US and all of those different themes.
AO: Yeah. It’s interesting also – so when you mentioned speaking about imaginary lines, some of the themes that seem apparent with Saturn and Neptune and especially now in relation to this topic is not just imaginary lines in terms of time zones, but also just this imaginary “who owns what?” Like, who does this land belong to, what is the status of that, what is your status in being on this land, and you know, are you a citizen? Do you belong here versus do you not belong here, because we say, you know, with Saturn and the status of ownership of land, right? And part of that ties back to agricultural stuff, but just the land in general, who owns it? Who owns the resources? How do we use that? Who says how do we use that? And then Neptune kind of just pointing out that ambiguity, but also sometimes changing or dividing or erasing the boundary or the line and changing that in a way. So like, it just makes me think about the whole islands and how, you know, the end of the Spanish War, it wasn’t just Puerto Rico that changed, but it was all the Caribbean islands were being divided up and changing in a sense, you know, with people moving back and forth, but also just so many different shifts happening and colonialism happening within them and breaking up things further. But just the influence that these different islands had between each other versus being so necessarily divided until colonialism set in, and then there was just much more of a division which feels much more Saturnian.
CB: Right, for sure. And there’s a tension – because I don’t have a lot of background, I’m trying to learn as much as I can, but – there’s a tension, it seems like, with people – I know you have part of your family’s from Puerto Rico, and your husband is Puerto Rican. And there’s a tension it seems like even in Puerto Rico sometimes from my understanding of wanting either greater independence or wanting to be recognized as a US state and different political views even internally about which would be the better route to go, right? Or how do I – how’s the best way to phrase that?
AO: Yeah. I think you phrased it well. I think there’s a significant amount of tension even internally within the island and amongst residents about, you know, what would be best for the people there. Because you know, some people are afraid of being independent, which would be a long transition for it to successfully happen, right? A lot of things would have to happen for it to become independent, and then that could mean losing access to a lot of resources of the mainland, and it’s already – there’s a lot of poverty already and a lot of hardship for people. So that would just really complicate things. You know, that’s one perspective. And the other is, you know, should we just become a state and become further assimilated, and how would that influence the culture? And then you know, there’s a lot of I think conflict internally. It’s pretty tense topic. For example, my husband believes that it’s more tense than it is here, even politically, if you can imagine that. Yeah.
CB: In what sense? Or more tense here?
AO: Well, tense in the sense of division between people in terms of like, what you know, like, the topic of getting into that politically, what’s the best for our people? What’s the best for, you know, our land?
CB: Got it.
AO: And that could be a very divisive topic.
CB: Got it. Okay. And that’s kind of was the interesting thing about the Super Bowl performance is like, there was both a embracing and sort of showing off of Puerto Rican culture was like, a major part of that. But then also an explicit statement about being part of America and part of the Americas at the same time, which seemed like a really interesting thing as well in terms of what he was trying to accomplish with that performance.
AO: Yeah. I like that you bring that up, because as I was looking at some literature and some writing on Bad Bunny, for example, I was curious, you know, more explicitly where does he stand with his views? And he is someone that has touched on a lot in his art and his music and the generational crisis that he’s grown up in in his cohort of Boricuans is that they’ve – he and the people in his generation have experienced some of the most financial fragility, a lot of the effects of gentrification, all of the struggle that has been compounded by natural disasters hitting over and over again and then not having necessarily the support and resources they need and going prolonged periods without that and how that just compounds all of the financial hardship and trauma. And he’s touched a lot of that in his music, and he has also said, you know, for example, someone that is pushing for statehood for Puerto Rico is not someone that loves Puerto Rico – that’s his stance on it. He’s someone that wants to push for independence.
So it’s interesting that you bring that up, because I think that in a way, what his message was – and this was just personal interpretation, but – it’s like, well, if we’re part of America, if we have to be under your rulership and we’re US citizens, then we’re American too. We belong here too. We’re allowed to take up space, too, and like, look how amazing! Like, what a diversity we have in this country. Like, look how amazing this is; let’s celebrate. Let’s have a good time. Let’s be inclusive. Like, let’s everybody have a party. It doesn’t matter if you don’t know the words. Like, you know good music; you could just move your body to it. And it’s like, it’s not that serious. You don’t need to know necessarily what I’m saying, because this is not like, a serious matter; it’s just a party. It’s just music. It’s just like, move your body and feel good. Have a good time.
And so I feel like he, you know, in a way was expressing well, yes, and also that America is not just like, one continent. There’s multiple continents. And just pointing that out, like, you know, we’re all here – we are all Americans, even if he does prefer and have the view that Puerto Rico should have its own independence and be able to have more autonomy.
CB: Yeah, that makes sense. And there was like, some explicit imagery about that in the show about the neglect, despite being US citizens, like, the neglect of America of the US of the continental US sometimes towards the island with things like the power lines, which was like, calling back to the hurricane that hit in 2017, which was under a Saturn-Neptune square. It was within 10 degrees still when the island was hit and it knocked out a bunch of power lines and then help wasn’t really like, forthcoming from the US federal government, right?
AO: Yeah, that was a major thing, and it was compounded, because right before that there was also Hurricane Irma that was like, you know, maybe within two weeks. It was like, September 6th and September 20th, I think it was. And it was like, back to back. Irma wasn’t necessarily nearly as bad, but then following right after you have Maria, and that was one of the worst hurricanes ever. And the devastation, you know, it just took such a huge toll. And it’s interesting, because if you look at the death toll numbers from different sources, it’s kind of all over the place and it depends on like, what time – you know, like, in what year you’re looking at that. But then in 2018, a Harvard University study estimated that it was close to 5,000 – it was like, 4,600 and then some.
CB: Wow.
AO: Whereas other figures say it was like, 3,000-something and then you see something like almost 2,000. And I think those are in earlier times. So yeah, that was a really devastating thing, and even still to this day, Puerto Rico struggles with that and it’s just something that you can’t really – it’s not something you can just obviously overlook if you’re living there and you are affected by that daily. You know, for example, if you’re someone that has diabetes and you rely on insulin and you don’t have a refrigerator and you can’t, you know, keep your insulin safe so that you can take care of yourself – like, those are major crises. People are affected in major ways by this.
CB: Right. That makes sense. So I’m glad you mentioned that there were like, two back to back like that. And here’s the chart for the second one for September 20th, 2017 – the big one. We can see Neptune was at 12 Pisces and Saturn was at 21 Sag, still within 10 degrees of a square with Neptune. And that wasn’t like, the only hurricane under Saturn-Neptune alignments, but back to the 1989 one when there was that call for greater independence from all three of the main political parties. There was also a huge hurricane that hit in 1989, Hurricane Hugo, which was weirdly in September again, September 18th, 1989. Here’s the chart for it, and we can see Saturn at seven degrees of Capricorn conjunct Neptune at nine degrees of Capricorn. And it was a huge like, category three storm, but it was the first major hurricane to hit the island directly in decades since the 1950s just causing massive devastation, particularly in the eastern part of the island. And this was like 2017 under the square; this was like, an early instance of the event kind of exposing the weakness in the island’s infrastructure, including the power grid and the water systems, and you know, starting to set up creating this reliance on FEMA and getting federal disaster aid which later wouldn’t be as forthcoming in 2017, marking sort of like, an echo of that theme.
AO: Yeah. And that’s – as you were saying previously about some of the imagery that was put on set for the performance in the Super Bowl, you know, a lot of people that are not familiar or don’t really just follow the history and events of Puerto Rico were like, “Why were there power lines?” Like, they had no idea what was going on with that; they didn’t get it. And that was just a really powerful statement about that, about the suffering and the grief and the loss that people have endured because of their weak infrastructures and the natural disasters and wanting more support from the mainland who was supposed to sort of be responsible and be taking care of, you know, the land that it’s basically colonized. So I actually wanted to bring up, since you were mentioning that, and I guess I’m not so surprised but one of the songs that’s really moving and powerful of Bad Bunny’s that came out in 2024 – he dropped it in September 2024, as you mentioned, that strangely enough Hugo also happened in September. And he writes about this in that song that he dropped in September 2024 called “Una Velita,” which is a candle.
And the lyrics are just really moving, the song in general; if you haven’t heard it, I really encourage you to listen to it. But it didn’t make it into the Super Bowl. I think that would have been – I think it was strategically not put into the performance because of just how visceral that song is. And I think, you know, they were really promoting a message of love, and that is a song with a lot of grief in it. And I think just with the imagery itself was enough.
But the lyrics in the beginning of the song are, you know, just like, “it’s going to rain this month;” you know, like, “how did we get here? How did it come? The year flies by, but this month always goes by really slow,” which is the month of September. And then he talks about like, “it’s gonna rain, and it’s gonna happen again; a storm is coming; it’s coming really stormy.” And then, you know, he just repeats that, and then says, “It’s happening again” or it’s gonna happen again. “Who’s gonna save us?” And so just referring to like, the devastation, the natural disasters – like, September comes, and it’s this month for a lot of people of loss and remembering that and the grief that comes with that, which interesting when you think about sort of like, the equinox happening too, and that change when the Sun goes in the fall in Libra is just a interesting association. But it’s a really powerful song, and we see, you know, even though that song wasn’t performed and that’s a really big I think just point to his views in general, and there’s a lot of other things that are mentioned about the government in that song, which is why it probably wasn’t placed in the set and songs to be played. But it’s a statement for sure, and yeah. So that’s just a commentary on when you mentioned the power lines.
CB: Yeah, that makes sense. And so even though he didn’t include this song, you were saying that the power lines is like, an allusion to that even though – which is interesting, because then it’s kind of like, a not subtle but it’s a somewhat subtle allusion to something which in and of itself is sort of a Saturn-Neptune type thing. And I just pulled up the chart for that, for his release, and he did time it – he released that single on September 19th, 2024, to coincide with the anniversary – the 7th anniversary – of that hurricane in 2017. But look at the chart. This is literally just a couple of days after that lunar eclipse happened in Pisces that was conjunct Saturn and Neptune. So he released it basically during eclipse season on a lunar eclipse that was conjunct that Saturn-Neptune conjunction just a couple days earlier. And just the way you were describing that, of it sort of calling back to and highlighting the loss of life and the destruction and some of the fears and other things surrounding that is just very evocative of a lunar eclipse highlighting that conjunction and that whole signature.
AO: Yeah. Definitely. That’s, yeah, wow. Yeah.
CB: Yeah. So yeah, so that’s a signature. And I even found – I was doing more research today to see if there was like, other preexisting events or other things earlier in the history, and I actually found way back there was another massive hurricane that hit in July of 1738; there was a major hurricane that hit the island in August of that year, which was under a Saturn-Neptune conjunction. And it caused like, massive devastation and sinking ships and destroying agricultural infrastructure. And so it’s weird that there’s sometimes this echo of, you know, the hurricanes and the destruction they cause, but then also the memories sometimes of the destruction caused being in people’s minds and stuff and still continuing to live on in different ways.
AO: Yeah, for sure. I mean, you know stories and experiences get passed down through the generations, and of course the intergenerational trauma extant for a lot of the people that have lived on the island for generations, so. Yeah, I can imagine even I’m sure Bad Bunny is influenced by that as well. Yeah.
CB: Yeah. Okay. So in terms of this, I’m trying to think of what else I meant to mention, because I wanted to take it further back, but I wanted to make sure there wasn’t anything else that we meant to mention about the Super Bowl itself or about some of the themes. But maybe the other segue is just like, towards the end, he brought out like, all of the flags of the different Spanish-speaking countries in the Americas, and he said like, we’re all Americans – like, referring to the different countries of the Americas and the different Spanish-speaking countries as part of the entire like, western world at this point. And then also obviously drawing the contrast with everything that’s going on lately in terms of like, racism or stuff with immigration and ICE and all the different things that are obviously so prominent and so potent in the culture right now, even including all the things that are happening with the broader Spanish-speaking world where, you know, Venezuela was just taken over and invaded. Cuba is being blockaded right now, and people are starting to – there’s some bad things happening there right now, and probably, you know, a number of other things – like, too many to list at this point. And as I was researching the history, I realized there’s like, a throughline. Because at first I thought it was like, Puerto Rican history, but then I realized it’s tied in with a broader thing that has to do with the Spanish-speaking world in the Americas in general. And I was tracing it back as far as I could go, and I think I found it. And what I found is that there was a Saturn-Neptune conjunction in 1486, and this was the year that Christopher Columbus first was granted an audience with the Spanish king and queen, basically, and he first made the pitch about his “enterprise to the Indies” and made the first initial pitch that while initially not fully successful eventually would become the thing that would lead him to getting the funding to go on to explore and eventually begin the colonization of the Americas and of the western hemisphere, starting with Spanish-speaking peoples. And that is in and of itself incredible that that seed moment was a Saturn-Neptune conjunction, which itself is kind of interesting because it has to do with from the European and the Spanish standpoint, exploring an unknown world or side of the globe and finding that there was an entire continent and entire groups of Indigenous peoples living there, which were then taken over and subjugated. But also I looked further, and even though we don’t have an exact birth date for Christopher Columbus, we know that he was born in the summer or fall probably of 1851 and it turns out that he was born with a Saturn-Neptune conjunction. So that blew me away discovering that actually just today as I explore some of this history for the first time and made me suddenly realize what we’re seeing with the Saturn-Neptune conjunctions; it’s for sure applying to Puerto Rico and Puerto Rico is a special case of that, but then there’s other countries in the Spanish-speaking world that were also seeing echoes of the Saturn-Neptune themes as well, because it goes back to this base chart with this explorer, with Christopher Columbus, and with the initial colonization basically of the western world by the Spanish starting in the 1500s and 1600s.
AO: Yeah. When I saw that note about Christopher Columbus being born during the Saturn-Neptune conjunction, I was just like, wow! That’s pretty amazing. And it’s interesting, because if you think, you know, we still celebrate Christopher Columbus Day in the States, and you know, he landed initially in Puerto Rico, and it’s like, okay. And this is America; this is – you know, there was this thing of like, “This is America,” and I think ‘til like, the day he died, it was just like, to him, that was the hill he died on. And it’s like, it’s interesting if you think about that stance, and right now sort of the discourse that’s happening about whether it’s accurate or not of whether Puerto Ricans are Americans or not. It’s like, well, Christopher Columbus said so! So anyways. What was I gonna say? I was gonna say something else…
CB: This is the chart. So we don’t know the date; we know he’s born in probably sometime between August and like, October of 1451, but we can see Saturn let’s say in late October, for example, Saturn’s at 13 degrees of Libra and Neptune’s at one degree of Libra. So they’re just like, coming off of this conjunction, which is just stunning to think about the initial explorer and colonizer and then how his initial pitch to start those explorations was a recurrence transit for him when Saturn and Neptune again came back into a conjunction 36 some odd years later and he starts, you know, with this idea.
AO: Yeah. Yeah, it’s fascinating, the themes, like you said, of explorer and what did you say? Explorer and…
CB: Exploring and like, colonizing essentially —
AO: Yes.
CB: And also I guess at a core there, one interesting theme is also like, the othering that —
AO: Yeah.
CB: — that came about basically and that continues to be part of the echo that goes back to that time is the Europeans tending, like, treating oftentimes the Native peoples that were living in the Americas as the other and subjugating them or doing a lot of terrible things during the entire colonial period and the echoes of that still where we still have these themes of like, othering let’s say, there’s people in the US now, for example, othering people that are Spanish-speaking peoples. Like that Jake Paul quote referring to like, “fake Americans” or other things like that. Like, we still have some echoes of that, and maybe in some ways it goes back to that thing with the Saturn-Neptune conjunctions that’s already there in the Christopher Columbus signature with like, exploring things that are unknown, but then also sometimes like, treating things that are different or unknown as somehow lesser for some reason.
AO: Yeah. It’s this interesting, like, push-pull, attraction-repulsion to something that’s different, and then it’s like, you know, for Christopher Columbus, there was this attraction. There was this, you know, this ideal of exploring the unknown and seeing what’s there, but also this probably, you know, this desire to own and to acquire, which feels very Saturnian in a sense. And then and so it seems like this sort of back and forth between – and sort of like what seems to be highlighted is the challenge about ambiguity and about maybe inconsistency where Neptune comes in. Like, there’s a challenge with inconsistency and things not being homogenous, whereas, you know, Saturn wants to systematize and to sort of assimilate or label things clearly in a certain way, whereas Neptune is really about some kind of change that’s afoot. There’s change, there’s erasure of things, and then you know, with the whole language barrier thing and sort of the conflict over that, it’s like this, you know, there wanting to be this homogenous thing where everyone speaks the same language and everyone understands so that they can communicate in this certain way. But then it’s like, who has the power and say over how you communicate and how you say something, right? So in a way, that creates this dynamic of erasure if, you know, one people or language is in power, and then there’s this domination factor with Saturn, right? Like, okay well, this is not the right language; this is the language that you speak, which is – you know, that’s been happening over and over throughout history for all of time in terms of people and lands. And so we see that domination theme with Saturn and then the erasure with Neptune, but also just change and the difficulty in holding more than one truth or more than one reality, more than one experience at the same time – that Saturn-Neptune coming together of that challenge where there’s something different, there’s something foreign, there’s something unknown, and Saturn wanting to, you know, the theme of Saturn and people that embody that archetype or that are manifesting that archetype through their actions and words and experiences being like, “No, we need it to be the same. We need to – whether that’s through you’re assimilating, we dominate,” and like, that power imbalance.
CB: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And it makes me think of how like in modern psychological astrology, like, I don’t know, Noel Tyl for example always said that Saturn was about fear and in a birth chart can indicate like, where you have some of your greatest fears about things. And Neptune makes me think of – Neptune can just indicate like, the unknown or the mysterious. And so there’s something about the Saturn-Neptune that’s like, fear of the unknown and the tension between that which is not familiar and sometimes Saturn likes to critique or reject things. And I feel like that ties in a little bit symbolically with what you’re saying in terms of attempts to assimilate or forced assimilation versus embracing ambiguity and embracing the ambiguity that comes with diversity and with not always having to have everything be exactly the same and there being something beautiful about that that’s worth celebrating, which really seemed to be a large part of the Super Bowl performance.
AO: Yeah. I had a thought, but it left me, so.
CB: That’s okay. So I just found the date. So here’s the chart for when Christopher Columbus was first granted that audience with Queen Isabella I of Castile and King Ferdinand II of Aragon. And it was on May 1st, 1496. Let me make sure I have the right one up. These are always approximate, but we can see Saturn’s there at nine degrees of Sagittarius, and Neptune’s there at 15 degrees of Sagittarius. So you know, this was the starting point then of starting that process that would eventually lead to eventually, like you said, Puerto Rico being one of the first areas that’s discovered by Christopher Columbus, and then it sets that up for almost like, a base chart where even though… You know, this is like, a precursor, but like, something important was happening here in the history of Puerto Rico even though Puerto Rico hadn’t been even – Christopher Columbus hadn’t even found it yet. But you can see it sort of being telegraphed already in this moment and then coming up over and over again subsequently in all these other important moments in the history of Puerto Rico in 1917 being granted US citizenship, in 1952 with the constitution, and 1989 with the formal request of greater self autonomy, and now in 2026 with Bad Bunny becoming this huge artist and giving this huge performance to millions and millions of people where he’s sort of showing off Puerto Rican culture and language.
So that’s pretty crazy, but it also makes something fall into place for me that I’ve been seeing elsewhere is that last month, I was looking at the chart for Venezuela. And it turned out that Venezuela was one of the countries around the conjunction between Saturn and Neptune that occurred in the 1810-1811 timeframe when a bunch of countries in South America broke away from Spain. And initially, they were doing this like, temporarily because the Spanish king was deposed by Napoleon or something like that; there was like, a war happening in Europe and it messed up things with the Spanish monarchy. And so a bunch of South American countries I think starting around 1810 started declaring temporary independence, but then Venezuela was the first one that declared full-fledged independence in South America, and it had a Saturn-Neptune conjunction in its chart as well as a Mars-Uranus conjunction and a Venus-Jupiter conjunction, which I found interesting because that’s like, the parallel with the United States’ birth chart that also had Mars-Uranus and Venus-Jupiter and had a Saturn-Neptune conjunction just prior to declaring its independence. So it’s like, Venezuela has that; a bunch of other South American countries also had that. And then I realized recently just last night I was looking at the chart for the Cuban revolution, and it turns out that kicked off or is usually dated as kicking off in the 1950s almost under an exact Saturn-Neptune conjunction. So it means that like, Saturn-Neptune conjunctions are also tied in with the history of Cuba, and potentially with like, other countries in the Spanish-speaking world as well. And I realized there’s the broader phenomenon here where the signature may be tied in with the Spanish-speaking world in general in the Americas.
AO: Yeah. It’s interesting that you mention Venezuela, because when I was doing research, I had read something about the origins of the Indigenous people in Puerto Rico. You know, there’s the Tainos, and even before then there was other peoples that existed. And from what I recall reading, some of the people – the Indigenous people of the island there – were from what we call now Venezuela. So it’s interesting that these things are intersecting, overlapping, happening at the same time, just seeing the threads that they’re all really connected and we can clearly see that through the astrology as well.
CB: That’s incredible. Yeah. And there’s probably so much other history that’s either undocumented or maybe other specialists have more documentation and could clue us in on. But you know, some of these signatures probably go back even further, and even though we’re seeing them show up in Christopher Columbus or in the independence of Venezuela or Cuba or other countries, there’s probably – like you said – because there’s these long civilizations and histories of Indigenous peoples there probably have their own signatures or similar signatures echoing throughout those that we don’t even know about.
AO: Yeah. And I think, you know, and that was another thing that of course people that are familiar with Puerto Rico’s history, even the very basics of it, could appreciate the imagery and the photography that was taking back to earlier history of Puerto Rico where – I mean, and it’s not super early, but earlier in terms of when enslaved people were working in sugar cane plantations, and that was a really big source of the economy for Puerto Rico in the 1800s when the sugar cane plantations that really created some of the structure that was there for some time in Puerto Rico, and it changed a lot of things. And of course, whenever there was change happening with the US saying like, we’re not gonna maybe have as much to do with like, exporting sugar from there anymore, then there was fight back from plantations, of course. And it was a big thing. But that was something that I think a lot of people appreciated also in the photography in the set and in the performance of sort of honoring that and honoring the people that put their labor and their blood and their sweat and tears into even unwillingly helping the land thrive, helping the people thrive, and maybe not necessarily their own, but just like the stories. And you know, the inevitable bonding that happens when you’re with other people and those are the only people you have when you’re being oppressed, and you know, the stories and the lineage and things that get passed down and how much of an imprint that leaves on people in such a, you know, on a small island like that and how much history gets passed down that, you know, whether it’s out of grief or anything else is like, well, we’re still celebrating our people. This is, you know, like, our people were enslaved; our people lived through this, and we celebrate them. We remember them. And this is for them. And so I think a lot of people probably didn’t really know what that was about unless they were directly aware of some of the history. But it was profound. It was definitely sort of a activating performance, not just entertainment, for sure.
CB: Yeah, it was really rich with like, symbolism and stuff, which is another interesting Saturn-Neptune thing to like, show some of the images like that very visibly of the sugar cane fields and people harvesting that, or like the power lines and having that refer implicitly or subtly or somewhat mysteriously to someone who maybe doesn’t have a background in that. But then perhaps leading more people to wanna learn and research more about that, and then stumbling across and learning more about the culture and the history.
AO: Yeah. I think it did do that for a lot of people, because you know, on the one side where there are many people that were concerned or upset about not being able to understand the lyrics in the song and the music and not understanding anything that was going on, there were still also a lot of other people that, while they acknowledge they had no idea what was going on necessarily, they gained an appreciation and they really enjoyed the music and the imagery and then started to like, learn more, or even just go listen to some Bad Bunny music and letting that be a doorway to being able to connect with people they might not ever connect with before and in a new way and sort of fostering, engendering more community in the real sense – not just like, oh, we’re similar so we’re part of a community, but this community of people that is all very different, but we are still Americans. That makes us, you know, community members in some way or another. Yeah, so like, for example, the whole issue of not being able to understand someone and that language barrier does feel very Saturn-Neptune in terms of like, well, like what I mentioned earlier of wanting to say well, this is the main language; this is the language of the mainland, so everyone should speak it. And there being sort of that fear or anxiety associated which could be both Saturn if you see Saturn as like, fear, or Neptune if you see it as like, anxiety or fear of the unknown, and there’s sort of an overlap with them depending on how you look at the symbolism. But that fear of like, well, I don’t know what they’re saying! Like, what if they’re talking about me? Like, what are they saying about me? And then on the other side of that, you have people that maybe don’t speak English and have to fear not being understood and how they might be perceived and also just like, having their rights being taken away or being in danger because of that – like, especially in current times.
CB: Yeah. For sure. That makes a lot of sense. And then a funny like, inversion of the people that were complaining where all of a sudden they’re the ones that don’t speak the language that’s being used, and therefore have fears that they’re being othered or something like that for the first time and seeing what that feels like. And that being kind of a funny inversion as well, but hopefully one that’s like, productive and probably in the long run – I mean, I would think this is, because conjunctions are always like, a seed moment where something important happens but oftentimes there’s important seeds that are sort of pushed into the ground at that time. And it takes part of the rest of the cycle before you understand in retrospect what started to grow out of that moment. And I think, you know, what’s funny about this is even though this is like, it’s a music thing – it’s like, this one music performance basically that happened one day a few days ago. And on some level I could kind of hear some people wondering why we’re focusing on this so much or how this has actual historical significance compared to, let’s say 1917 where they’re granted US citizenship or 1952 which was like, the constitution, or 1989 where they’re requesting independence that have more tangible let’s say political significance. You know, it may be that this performance and some of the things happening right now have much greater – or will have much greater – impact on the future than we can actually imagine or anticipate right now, but as astrologers we know that that is the case because it’s happening on a conjunction, and we know conjunctions are always these powerful seed moments just like some of the past ones have been as we look at them now in retrospect, you know, going back to Christopher Columbus and that first meeting with the king and queen and what would come from that.
AO: Yeah. That’s I think one of the really big things about astrology and astrologers is that we’re really dialed in on pattern recognition. And so when we find those patterns repeating in these cycles, we’re like, it makes us want to pay attention and point out, well, this happened, and this similar thing happened at this time and this time, and you know, the associations that build from that. And you know, like, just to further build on what you’re saying, you know, when you look at 1989 when Puerto Rico was trying to be self-determined, if you look at Bad Bunny’s chart and it’s like, even if his Moon is not at two Pisces, his Mars is there. It’s really close to where the North Node was at five Pisces at that time, and so like, we just could see the associations and the influences between certain individuals on history and how at the time when they came onto earth is tied back to another period of time and something that was unfolding. And so you know, when we notice these patterns, it’s hard not to follow them further and the threads. Yeah. And… I lost my —
CB: Yeah.
AO: — other thought, but it was something along those lines.
CB: No, I like that. It’s like, because with astrology you can see how each of us are tied into greater prior cultural moments in history related to our background and our origins and important events that came before us and how we’re all sort of weaved together as part of the tapestry of events and of history in different ways. And sometimes having like, a placement in one’s birth chart can be tied in with some earlier historical chart or moment in a way that you might not even ever know, and yet it can kind of show the background connections between people and different historical things that are really important.
AO: Yes. Yeah. Which you also found a lot of really interesting threads in the earlier history of Puerto Rico in terms of just like, landmarks and how Saturn-Neptune that feels. I mean, of course, it’s an island surrounded by ocean, but then some of the buildings, the landmarks that were being built to try and protect the land from the ocean, for example – those were some also just really interesting finds.
CB: Yeah. I found like, 1523, there was the King Charles of Spain under this conjunction, he authorized the construction of – how do you pronounce? La Fortaleza? Is that correct?
AO: La Fortaleza? I’m sorry; I’m not looking at the notes. Let me…
CB: But it was like —
AO: The fortress, yeah.
CB: Yeah, to protect the island’s wealth from pirates and European people. And then there was another one on like, 1630 – another conjunction – that was about fortifying the borders when they officially began working on the massive city walls of San Juan to protect the city from ongoing naval attacks from the Dutch and the English. So again like, building walls or fortifications. I already mentioned the 1738, the big hurricane that hit under that conjunction.
And then in terms of the modern political history, it’s like, we traced it back to Christopher Columbus and everything with that, but the base chart that seems to be tied in with – and the first one I was able to find, first conjunction that was tied in with – like, political things that are relevant to today was in 1809 around the conjunction that was occurring in that timeframe was happening in the middle of the Peninsula War in Spain that was happening in Europe at the time. And what happened is that the Supreme Central Junta of Spain issued a decree that recognized Puerto Rico not just as a colony, but as an oversea province of Spain. And this gave the Puerto Ricans the right to send representatives to the Spanish government for the first time with the first one being elected in 1810. And so this was under a Saturn-Neptune conjunction, and that was part of the same Saturn-Neptune conjunctions where it was causing a wave of these independence movements in South America at the same time, including Venezuela. But this is probably the earlier one I could find where we have this similar theme happening of Puerto Rico being granted or recognized as being part of a broader place and having the right to have some political representation. And so it’s just really incredible that that’s happening in like, 1809, 1810, and then to see the subsequent conjunctions that come up at all of the other conjunctions in the past century in the 19th and 20th century.
AO: Yeah. Again, just like, recognizing the patterns coming up and it’s hard to dismiss that when you see it. It’s hard to unsee it or to dismiss it. It’s fascinating to see it unfolding and then to speculate or even just wonder how will it continue to unfold, seeing that we’ve seen these patterns before, how will it continue to unfold and then looking at the upcoming astrology and saying, you know, I wonder if this might be what happens. I’m curious.
Something that you mentioned – because you had said, you know, people might be wondering why do we place so much attention on Bad Bunny and the performance – yes, he’s Puerto Rican, and this was a historical moment in terms of – two historical moments like, back to back happening in terms of awards. One for a fully Spanish album, and then singing completely in Spanish – someone directly from the island, not just someone with Puerto Rican lineage or blood like J-Lo, for example, you know. But someone directly from the island performing completely in Spanish without any… I don’t wanna say compromise, but for lack of a better word, because he was asked to sing the songs and lyrics in English, which he refused, like, “I’m not doing that; the songs won’t work the same way. It won’t even rhyme. It won’t work that way,” and refused and gave himself permission to take up the space with that language. But you know, when I had mentioned that his particular views are wanting self-sovereignty for Puerto Rico or independence for Puerto Rico, he has himself funded billboards specifically for that in Puerto Rico. And you know, I guess you could say endorsed in a way or was encouraging for someone that was running for that before. And although – and of course, like, they still were far from winning that; obviously that didn’t happen, but the person that was running for the independent party at the time had a huge increase in supporters because of Bad Bunny’s influence and because of Bad Bunny saying like, “This is what our island needs; this is what the people need and want.” And so it just ties back into how an individual can make such a impact, and how the different threads of moments in history and individuals tie in their astrology, which might seem unrelated on the surface, but when you look just a little bit deeper, there’s a lot of – in terms of timing, in terms of cycles and patterns – there’s a lot of associations there.
CB: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And also just how culture and music and art can influence politics and influence the direction of politics which then can very concretely influence people’s lives. Like, you know, even just recently how much shifts in movies and music and in let’s say TV shows and stuff in the 1990s and 2000s where there was more representation of gay and queer people in entertainment sort of paved the way for same-sex marriage to be legalized in the 2010s, for example. So that it was like – and it also made it more politically, I don’t know, not expedient, but like, okay for Obama to become the first president who said that he endorsed same-sex marriage, for example, which had been so taboo up to that point. But to have a shift. And so things like this right now – we’ll probably look back in retrospect and see this as an important cultural moment and turning point that then influenced in different ways ways that politics and concrete events went in the future.
AO: Yeah. And I think that’s a really just a great point to underline not Neptune’s necessarily influence, but the association there with Neptune of being this indicator of cultural change and cultural influence changing and happening. And how powerful art is and art being, you know, something that Neptune symbolizes as a medium to influence people’s experience, and then therefore their choices on multiple levels – mentally, emotionally, spiritually. And how you know, like, a lot of people like to say people in power, for example, are afraid of art because of its ability to move people in such a strong way without necessarily rationalizing, but just hitting in a different way that overrides maybe rationalization or being able to influence people through words, and maybe not just through words but through other mediums too. Through the heart. And how Saturn-Neptune coming together can be sort of like, a snapshot of that happening in terms of like, big cultural shifts happening. You know, like, for at least the last 26 years, there’s been just a lot of – and it’s been building more intensively – cultural conflict and cultural wars in terms of just identity, sexuality, race, language, all of these modes of existing and expressing. And so when Saturn and Neptune come together, I feel like that’s a really big snapshot of, like you said, a turning point.
CB: Yeah. Absolutely. And like, an inflection point or a cultural inflection point.
I know we’re running out of time, so I just wanna like, just mention a few other things really quickly from our notes before we wrap up for the day.
One of them was I had mentioned in passing the chart of – okay, so one I’ll mention really quickly and then I’ll bring up the other one, but this is the chart for what’s usually considered, what’s usually celebrated as the start of the Cuban Revolution – July 26th, 1953 – even though it started with a military attack that failed. But then it still eventually led to that. But I was really blown away finding this last night and looking at it, because look at that Saturn-Neptune conjunction. Saturn’s at 26 Libra conjunct Neptune at 21 Libra, so an exact Saturn-Neptune conjunction. But then look at the Moon. The Moon is in Aquarius around the North Node, and it’s opposing the Sun in Leo – so it’s a lunar eclipse in Aquarius that is very similar then to the – or it would be part of a similar eclipse series as the solar eclipse that’s about to take place in Aquarius later this month. And then we also see the Mars-Uranus conjunction in Gemini – or sorry, in Cancer – which is similar to the Mars-Uranus conjunction in Gemini from the American Revolution that kicked off like, an armed revolt of a country breaking away from a colony. And then the Venus-Jupiter conjunction, which is also similar to the US one.
So I think that’s really important, because it made me realize there’s starting to be news about Cuba right now, but I think there’s about to be a very important moment with Cuba that’s coming up. So I wanted to mention it, that it’s not the only Saturn-Neptune recurrence transit that’s happening right now, not just for Puerto Rico, but also potentially for Cuba and other countries.
AO: Yeah. That is, wow. That’s major. Now I’m very curious and yeah. Just curious and sort of alert of like, what’s gonna be unfolding?
CB: Yeah. I think we should pay much more attention to that, and that’s why I wanted to mention it because I’m sure we will be and we’ll see that come up more.
And then the other one was just this is the chart for Venezuela declaring its independence on July 5th, 1811, and we see Saturn at 21 Sagittarius and Neptune at eight degrees of Sagittarius. We see Mars and Uranus conjunct in Scorpio – so again, another country declaring its independence through an armed rebellion – and then also a Venus-Jupiter conjunction in Gemini. So there’s just this weird similarities between some of these different charts and the chart of the United States, and then of course the – for better or worse – the long history of interconnections in positive and negative ways between these different countries. And a lot of that we’ll see come up more this year as we have this Saturn-Neptune conjunction going exact, as we start having eclipses in the Aquarius-Leo axis, and then also as we have the first Mars-Uranus conjunction happening in July in Gemini, which is gonna be part of a new series that’s always very important in the history of the US. But because it will then also be a recurrence transit for these other countries, maybe important in Venezuela and Cuba as well. And we’ll also see what happens and what comes of this moment and if there’s any other major news when it comes to Puerto Rico over the course of the next year or two, especially as Saturn and Neptune continue to be copresent and conjunct by sign, even if they start moving apart by degree.
AO: Yeah. And also the Jupiter-Pluto opposition that’s gonna be playing into the eclipses as well. I think, I mean, at least by sign, right? That’s gonna be happening in the summer. At least that’s one of the hits.
CB: Absolutely. Yeah, that’s a really great point, and magnifying or exacerbating some of the stuff with the eclipses that will be shifting into that axis, first with this eclipse in Aquarius in February, and then also with the eclipse in Leo in August.
AO: Yeah.
CB: Cool.
AO: Yeah.
CB: All right. Well, I know we’re running out of time; you got stuff to do. Thank you so much for joining me for this today; this was kind of a free-flowing discussion and we put a lot together pretty quickly. But this was really good, and I enjoyed having this talk with you. So thanks so much for doing this with me today.
AO: Yeah. I really enjoyed it too. It was last minute, but it was great. There was a lot to explore and a lot to learn, so thanks.
CB: Yeah. There’s just so much happening right now; I wanted to provide some documentation of it. And even if it’s not as polished as some of my other episodes this month, I like talking about the current events and showing how the current transits are tied in with history – in this instance going back many, many centuries. It’s a lot of fun to look at news and events in that way and realize the importance of things. So yeah, thanks for joining me to do this today.
AO: Thank you. It was a pleasure.
CB: Cool. All right. Well, thanks everyone for watching or listening to this episode of The Astrology Podcast, and we’ll see you again next time!
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